Hronek will be our Krug/Timmonen Hybrid

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Hronek will be our Krug/Timmonen Hybrid or something like that, discuss.

What past & present players does Hronek remind you of and/or how do you think he ends up career wise.

Excited bout McIssac & new Champion Gustav Lindstrom as a pairing, both made good strides this season.

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[Ezekial]

A gritty Rafalski.

 

[Shaman464]

Hronek will be our Krug/Timmonen Hybrid or something like that, discuss.

What past & present players does Hronek remind you of and/or how do you think he ends up career wise.

Excited bout McIssac & new Champion Gustav Lindstrom as a pairing, both made good strides this season.

You mean he will have a ton of kids and be significantly smaller than Chara?

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Hronek is our best young D but the Cholo train is over? Everyone was so big on him at the beginning of the year. Saying he is better than Chychrun etc. How is he looking in GR?

 

[Hen Kolland]

I have never been terribly impressed with Torey Krug as a complete player. Over 65% offensive zone starts, and still a minus player? Over 60% O zone starts in his career. Playing along side a defensive stalwart like Chara his entire career...

I hope Hronek is a bit more well rounded and reliable in his own zone so he doesn’t have to be as sheltered as Krug has been in his career.

 

[NickH8]

I have never been terribly impressed with Torey Krug as a complete player. Over 65% offensive zone starts, and still a minus player? Over 60% O zone starts in his career. Playing along side a defensive stalwart like Chara his entire career...

I hope Hronek is a bit more well rounded and reliable in his own zone so he doesn’t have to be as sheltered as Krug has been in his career.

Zone starts are flawed. In 2015-2016 Paul Gaustad had 387 more defensive zone starts than offensive starts and that only accounted for around a 7% difference in Corsi For. Beware of What Zone Starts are Telling You, Part II: Shot Metrics - NHL Numbers. This is mostly because a zone start only has an affect for the first 10-15 seconds of a shift.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Zone starts are flawed. In 2015-2016 Paul Gaustad had 387 more defensive zone starts than offensive starts and that only accounted for around a 7% difference in Corsi For. Beware of What Zone Starts are Telling You, Part II: Shot Metrics - NHL Numbers. This is mostly because a zone start only has an affect for the first 10-15 seconds of a shift.

I’m focused more on quality of offensive possession than I am shot control. I don’t think we have anything that will give conclusive evidence, but the odds of a controlled offensive possession seem much higher during an offensive draw than that of a defensive draw. Whether or not it impacts the stats will obviously lie in the numbers, but it’s not a secret that the offensive defensemen that aren’t that great on defense tend to be put in certain situations more than others.

 

[NickH8]

I’m focused more on quality of offensive possession than I am shot control. I don’t think we have anything that will give conclusive evidence, but the odds of a controlled offensive possession seem much higher during an offensive draw than that of a defensive draw. Whether or not it impacts the stats will obviously lie in the numbers, but it’s not a secret that the offensive defensemen that aren’t that great on defense tend to be put in certain situations more than others.

The point is the advantage you gain from an offensive zone start only lasts so long. At a certain point which zone you started in doesn't matter.
Also plus-minus is a horribly flawed stat

 

[lilidk]

Both Cholowski and Hronek have better numbers their 1st NHL season than Burns

 

[NickH8]

Both Cholowski and Hronek have better numbers their 1st NHL season than Burns

Burns is a bad example because he was drafted as a forward and peaked late in his career. Everyone's career trajectory is different.

 

[Hen Kolland]

The point is the advantage you gain from an offensive zone start only lasts so long. At a certain point which zone you started in doesn't matter.
Also plus-minus is a horribly flawed stat

Okay, so let’s expand on this. He isn’t physical, he doesn’t take the puck away as well as good defensive players, he doesn’t block shots as well as good defensive players. He is gifted offensive zone starts, even if their value is limited on average. With that context, plus minus isn’t being used as the only source of data, in which case it would be a horribly flawed stat. It’s supplementing other data, and confirming what the scouting report and what other numbers tell me.

Torey Krug is not a good defensive player. I’m sorry if this offended you, but no matter how much you try, my opinion isn’t going to change.

 

[NickH8]

Okay, so let’s expand on this. He isn’t physical, he doesn’t take the puck away as well as good defensive players, he doesn’t block shots as well as good defensive players. He is gifted offensive zone starts, even if their value is limited on average. With that context, plus minus isn’t being used as the only source of data, in which case it would be a horribly flawed stat. It’s supplementing other data, and confirming what the scouting report and what other numbers tell me.

Torey Krug is not a good defensive player. I’m sorry if this offended you, but no matter how much you try, my opinion isn’t going to change.

I'm not offended at all, As much as people are overly offended these days there's also been an overreaction of people searching for offended people everywhere.

Even with all those flaws, he still has a very positive affect on the game through his offensive and transitional play. You can't say he's bad all around if he's good in two of the three zones.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I'm not offended at all, As much as people are overly offended these days there's also been an overreaction of people searching for offended people everywhere.

Even with all those flaws, he still has a very positive affect on the game through his offensive and transitional play. You can't say he's bad all around if he's good in two of the three zones.

Oh no, Krug is an absolutely fine offensive defensemen. My hope is that Hronek becomes better than Krug, and in order to accomplish that he will need to be a complete player in each zone.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Nobody considered Timmonen was decent defensively, but not elite, so Krug+Timmonen= Hronek

 

[Shaman464]

A gritty Rafalski.

A Helm with hands, if you will.

 

[Shaman464]

Both Cholowski and Hronek have better numbers their 1st NHL season than Burns

We'd be lucky in a season Cholo and Hronek have as many points as Burns had this season combined. As was already pointed out Burns was drafted as a winger and converted to defense relatively late in his career.

 

[Bondurant]

Hronek is our best young D but the Cholo train is over? Everyone was so big on him at the beginning of the year. Saying he is better than Chychrun etc. How is he looking in GR?

Twenty-five games and 12 assists. Anyone tells you Chowloski is done you tell 'em to F off back to Chicago.

 

[lilidk]

Burns is a bad example because he was drafted as a forward and peaked late in his career. Everyone's career trajectory is different.

Is Trouba good example?

 

[Martinez]

Zidlicky

 

[Ricelund]

Hronek has puck poise.

Hronek is Cannon.

 

[lilidk]

20 year old Trouba 22 points in 65 games
20 year old Hronek 23 points in 46 games

 

[Shaman464]

20 year old Trouba 22 points in 65 games
20 year old Hronek 23 points in 46 games

That's a small part of the story. Trouba was also blocking a ton more shots, had a better xgf/xga, points shares, was a better driver of possession, among other things. Hronek also averaged 20 seconds more PP time a game. Trouba was playing a much more complete game at 20.

 

[Henkka]

Hronek is looking good.

I could see him pairing with McIsasc and Cholowski with Lindström.

McIsaac-Hronek (L-R, physical skill shut-down pair)
Cholowski-Lindström (L-R, more finesse with great skating transition from Cholo)

 

[RedMenace]

So, if I'm understanding the posts here: Advanced stats can tell any story you want, and maybe we should wait until a guy plays an entire season or so before ripping/praising him?

Am I doing this right? It doesn't feel right...

 

[InjuredChoker]

Okay, so let’s expand on this. He isn’t physical, he doesn’t take the puck away as well as good defensive players, he doesn’t block shots as well as good defensive players. He is gifted offensive zone starts, even if their value is limited on average. With that context, plus minus isn’t being used as the only source of data, in which case it would be a horribly flawed stat. It’s supplementing other data, and confirming what the scouting report and what other numbers tell me.

Torey Krug is not a good defensive player. I’m sorry if this offended you, but no matter how much you try, my opinion isn’t going to change.

krug's raw +/- is -12 the past 3 seasons. he's +24 on ES. the difference is covered by EN goals and SH goals.