How would you rate the Sharks' draft?

[stator]

Given how we moved up to pick Roy, I think DW originally wanted Provorov or Werenski (and Zacha as a consolation).


All 3 defenseman going off the board was "worst case scenario" for DW.

I had thought that as well, but I believed it was Werenski they wanted. I think this draft is uncertain. It'll either be a A+ wow, or a ho-hum C with a wild card on the goalie.

Timo has big upside potential. He can work his shots to get a moving goalie, and he can freeze a goalie with a direct shot as well. He can also work the ice out in front net and find the optimal spot to score on a pass, deflection, or rebound. It's going to come down to how well he can develop to do this with NHL speed and goalies. If he can close that gap, people will look back and wonder how could they have not lumped Timo in with the top three draftees.

Roy's scouting analysis makes it sound like a perfect match for what the Sharks' need... someone who can cleanly execute zone exits, and lead the 1st PP team. Maybe like a younger Boyle. I'm guessing that's why DW traded up in the 2nd round being surprised that Roy was still on the board.

But heck, the NHL road is littered with shooting stars that have fallen short, and the Sharks have not been immune from that with some 1st round picks in the past.

The next scouting activity is to look at Iribe for a goalie coach position. I like what he did back east.

 

[T0uGh C0oki3]

I had thought that as well, but I believed it was Werenski they wanted. I think this draft is uncertain. It'll either be a A+ wow, or a ho-hum C with a wild card on the goalie.

Timo has big upside potential. He can work his shots to get a moving goalie, and he can freeze a goalie with a direct shot as well. He can also work the ice out in front net and find the optimal spot to score on a pass, deflection, or rebound. It's going to come down to how well he can develop to do this with NHL speed and goalies. If he can close that gap, people will look back and wonder how could they have not lumped Timo in with the top three draftees.

Roy's scouting analysis makes it sound like a perfect match for what the Sharks' need... someone who can cleanly execute zone exits, and lead the 1st PP team. Maybe like a younger Boyle. I'm guessing that's why DW traded up in the 2nd round being surprised that Roy was still on the board.

But heck, the NHL road is littered with shooting stars that have fallen short, and the Sharks have not been immune from that with some 1st round picks in the past.

The next scouting activity is to look at Iribe for a goalie coach position. I like what he did back east.

I think Meier would become a solid NHL player. (Just not the greatest one)

But we shouldn't have passed up on steals like Barzal (could have been our own Monahan ) and Connor (Huge upside).

Time will tell.

 

[SactoShark]

I think Meier would become a solid NHL player. (Just not the greatest one)

But we shouldn't have passed up on steals like Barzal (could have been our own Monahan ) and Connor (Huge upside).

Time will tell.

Here's an entire article comparing Monahan to Meier.

 

[Alwalys]

I gave it a B based on overall look and feel, but I do find the arguments compelling that they came away with better top-end prospects than expected. The move to grab Roy was great.

 

[LilLeeroy]

I just find it odd that both Barzal and Connor who I read alot of good things about before the draft, teams like Florida, Dallas, Bruins (3 times) all overlooked these guys also. So it wasn't only the Sharks that didn't like them enough to draft them before someone else.

Colorado, Florida, and Dallas all have their first two line Center positions set for the foreseeable future. If the Sharks had a Sequin/Mackinnon/Barkov/Duchene/Bjugstad too it would have made total sense to pass on the talented playmaking Center for the PWF (the NHL PWFs not the 6'1 PWF).

Unfortunately we do not have one of those Centers so only an idiot would have passed on them if they were in the Sharks position.

 

[hockeyball]

Colorado, Florida, and Dallas all have their first two line Center positions set for the foreseeable future. If the Sharks had a Sequin/Mackinnon/Barkov/Duchene/Bjugstad too it would have made total sense to pass on the talented playmaking Center for the PWF (the NHL PWFs not the 6'1 PWF).

Unfortunately we do not have one of those Centers so only an idiot would have passed on them if they were in the Sharks position.

No, only an idiot would not pick the best player available. The Sharks felt that was Meier, as did apparently several other teams since Barzal didn't go till 16. So by your estimation, our own + 7 other teams scouts are all idiots? I liked Barzal too, but there was clearly something we did not see since he fell so far. We didn't get to interview him, we didn't send teams of experts to watch him play live. I'm very confident the Sharks drafted Meier because they felt he was the best player available at that pick, not because they needed a winger.

Also, to your point, we need an elite center, but we don't need anything less than that (we are stacked with non-elite 1-3rd line centers). We do however need skilled wingers at almost every level. So even if it was a needs decision, it was a safer needs decision because Barzal is projected to be at best, Couture level. We already have Couture, we don't need two.

 

[LilLeeroy]

No, only an idiot would not pick the best player available. The Sharks felt that was Meier, as did apparently several other teams since Barzal didn't go till 16. So by your estimation, our own + 7 other teams scouts are all idiots? I liked Barzal too, but there was clearly something we did not see since he fell so far. We didn't get to interview him, we didn't send teams of experts to watch him play live. I'm very confident the Sharks drafted Meier because they felt he was the best player available at that pick, not because they needed a winger.

Also, to your point, we need an elite center, but we don't need anything less than that (we are stacked with non-elite 1-3rd line centers). We do however need skilled wingers at almost every level. So even if it was a needs decision, it was a safer needs decision because Barzal is projected to be at best, Couture level. We already have Couture, we don't need two.

If the Sharks had two young stud centers (like the other teams that passed on Barzal do) I would have had no problem passing up the more talented player for Rantanen or Crouse.

 

[Sharksfan83]

So when Barzal becomes the #2C that he is projected as, we end up with Couture, Hertl, Tierney at the #2C position and still don't have a #1C nor a Winger with any upside apart from Godolbin.


See what I did there? I pretended I can forsee the future also, and I also pretended that I got to interview and spend my whole working week on studying these players like NHL scouting staff do.

 

[Sharksfan83]

oh and random google for NHL 2015 mock draft,

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=771723

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=764207

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl-mock-draft-button-s-first-round-picks-1.316145

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...t-first-round-oilers-sabres-coyotes/29129019/

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/06/25/mock-draft-mike-zeisberger-gives-you-his-picks

All had Meier going before Barzal.

 

[sr228]

oh and random google for NHL 2015 mock draft,

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=771723

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=764207

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl-mock-draft-button-s-first-round-picks-1.316145

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...t-first-round-oilers-sabres-coyotes/29129019/

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/06/25/mock-draft-mike-zeisberger-gives-you-his-picks

All had Meier going before Barzal.

Mock drafts aren't the same as rankings so I don't think I understand what you're getting at here. When those writers do these they base their 'mocks' heavily on what they perceive to be team need.

 

[LilLeeroy]

So when Barzal becomes the #2C that he is projected as, we end up with Couture, Hertl, Tierney at the #2C position and still don't have a #1C nor a Winger with any upside apart from Godolbin.


See what I did there? I pretended I can forsee the future also, and I also pretended that I got to interview and spend my whole working week on studying these players like NHL scouting staff do.

I'm not pretending I can see the future, but Barzal is a better prospect than Meier. (Who is a completely different center than any we have, and in a rebuild Couture should probably be one of the first players traded)

We'll see how they turn out and I hope Meier ends up being very good.

 

[Sharksfan83]

Mock drafts aren't the same as rankings so I don't think I understand what you're getting at here. When those writers do these they base their 'mocks' heavily on what they perceive to be team need.

Ok.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftprospectbrowse.htm

That's rankings. Meier still above Barzal. (Although I maybe hand picking )My only point is that people are going on about the pick of Meier like it was "off the board", to the point that one of the regular "gurus" on here saying it was a "Disaster pick". It's quite clear that a lot of other intelligent people in the industry don't see it the same way. That's because it's all speculation and projections, and everyone's opinions are different because there is NO RIGHT ANSWER RIGHT NOW, the only answer, based on a lot of industry people, is that it's not a bad pick at this point.

 

[hockeyball]

If the Sharks had two young stud centers (like the other teams that passed on Barzal do) I would have had no problem passing up the more talented player for Rantanen or Crouse.

Good teams do not draft based on need. Even if they did, we don't NEED another 2nd line center, or even a decent 1st line center. We have those. Barzal is very unlikely to become an elite 1st center. If we were talking about McDavid or even Marner here, you'd have a leg to stand on. Barzal isn't even close to Marner's talent level, let alone McDavid. You want a center solution, so do most of us, Barzal is very unlikely to be that solution. We'd end with yet more center depth and fill no holes. Meier at least has a good shot to fill a real hole (top-6 wing) well.

So when Barzal becomes the #2C that he is projected as, we end up with Couture, Hertl, Tierney at the #2C position and still don't have a #1C nor a Winger with any upside apart from Godolbin.

Plus Goldobin is a RW and Meier is a LW. We had literally no high-end depth at LW, at all. Now we do.

 

[sr228]

Good teams do not draft based on need. Even if they did, we don't NEED another 2nd line center, or even a decent 1st line center. We have those. Barzal is very unlikely to become an elite 1st center. If we were talking about McDavid or even Marner here, you'd have a leg to stand on. Barzal isn't even close to Marner's talent level, let alone McDavid. You want a center solution, so do most of us, Barzal is very unlikely to be that solution. We'd end with yet more center depth and fill no holes. Meier at least has a good shot to fill a real hole (top-6 wing) well.



Plus Goldobin is a RW and Meier is a LW. We had literally no high-end depth at LW, at all. Now we do.

I think need was definitely one of the reasons they drafted Meier, he's also a RW though he does shoot left.

 

[Mattb124]

There is a certain irony in the talk of needing wingers from fans of a team with 1 natural winger (Nieto) in its top 9 last year.

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

Here's an entire article comparing Monahan to Meier.

Lol, nice find.

 

[LilLeeroy]

Good teams do not draft based on need. Even if they did, we don't NEED another 2nd line center, or even a decent 1st line center. We have those. Barzal is very unlikely to become an elite 1st center. If we were talking about McDavid or even Marner here, you'd have a leg to stand on. Barzal isn't even close to Marner's talent level, let alone McDavid. You want a center solution, so do most of us, Barzal is very unlikely to be that solution. We'd end with yet more center depth and fill no holes. Meier at least has a good shot to fill a real hole (top-6 wing) well.



Plus Goldobin is a RW and Meier is a LW. We had literally no high-end depth at LW, at all. Now we do.

You said Colorado, Florida, and Dallas all passed on Barzal so there must be a reason why and I gave you a likely reason.

And let's say Barzal ends up being Couture (which is dumb because he is barely 18 and could end up being better or worse than him). This allows you to trade Couture for another piece we need like a Seth Jones. Then during at the end of the season in three years we have a 20 year old Barzal centering either the 1st or 2nd line with a 23 year old Seth Jones on the 1st pairing.

Instead we will have a 29 year old Couture centering the 1st or 2nd line with a 21 year old Meier being a complimentary winger without any star to compliment.

 

[Led Zappa]

Instead we will have a 29 year old Couture centering the 1st or 2nd line with a 21 year old Meier being a complimentary winger without any star to compliment.

When did we stop trading and drafting?

 

[LilLeeroy]

When did we stop trading and drafting?

Considering the guy I was quoting was the one who was saying there is no point in drafting Barzal because he is Couture 2.0 and we already have Couture, why don't you ask him?

 

[hockeyball]

You said Colorado, Florida, and Dallas all passed on Barzal so there must be a reason why and I gave you a likely reason.

And let's say Barzal ends up being Couture (which is dumb because he is barely 18 and could end up being better or worse than him). This allows you to trade Couture for another piece we need like a Seth Jones. Then during at the end of the season in three years we have a 20 year old Barzal centering either the 1st or 2nd line with a 23 year old Seth Jones on the 1st pairing.

Instead we will have a 29 year old Couture centering the 1st or 2nd line with a 21 year old Meier being a complimentary winger without any star to compliment.

You are making way too many guesses and assumptions.

I could just as easily say for instance that drafting Meier fills a hole at wing that we now won't NEED to trade someone to fill. That leave's us the opportunity to instead trade them for a defensemen, or a center, whatever.

Again, even if you are drafting for need, our need at wing is greater than our need at center. Unless you are getting a nearly guaranteed elite center, we need wingers far more right now. We also need defensemen far more, but we got one of those (in my opinion the best one available once Werenski and Provorov were gone).

The Sharks filled two of their biggest needs, a top-end two-way dman and a top-end winger. Barzal clearly, as far as many scouting systems were concerned, was not the BPA. On top of that, he didn't fill one or our two biggest needs. That's why he wasn't chosen.

 

[LilLeeroy]

Barzal clearly, as far as many scouting systems were concerned, was not the BPA.

Barzal was rated higher by hockeyprospect, ISS, Future Considerations, McKeen, Central Scouting, and TSN. Those are the main scouting systems and he is rated higher in every single one of them.

Sorry if I seem so persistent on this but I have a really hard time not seeing Barzal putting up 100-110 points last season if he hadn't gotten injured, were 7 months older, and played on a line with Ehlers.

 

[scoutman1]

i see a lot of people on here are questioning the Miere pick but im here to tell you as a scout for a team in the QMJHL for 11 years now I am confident in my scouting ability of players, Miere to me is big, strong, amazing hands with excitable play, excellent offensive player, needs to work harder in defensive zone but the guy is killer in the offensive zone...I think too many people on here make judgement without actually seeing the guy on a consistant basis, Miere is going to be a top 2 line forward and is IMO a wayyyyyy better pick than last years 1st rounder who im so-so on, Miere IMO was the most talented player from the QMJHL for the draft in the offensive end and was underrated by A LOT on the board.

For the person above that says he was rated higher on every major scouting service, that means screw all to teams, Miere IMO was the better pick. Barzal does not have the scoring ability Meier does, nor does he have the strength and size Meier does....Barzal has to prove he can stay healthy in my eyes to be in the same class, im not questioning Barzals ability as i know he is skilled and exciting, but Meier is a good playmaker but a great goal scorer as well, and he has even better when Ehlers went down with injury, so your playing on a line with Ehlers does not take effect as he played for awhile without him still keeping up his amazing point pace.

Your 2nd round pick in Roy was just money, the kid IMO should have been taken top 15 in the draft, he is so smart, savy and just picks apart any holes in the game, the kid is going to be an amazing player which will have many teams kicking themselves in the butt later down the road for passing him up.

 

[SactoShark]

Barzal was rated higher by hockeyprospect, ISS, Future Considerations, McKeen, Central Scouting, and TSN. Those are the main scouting systems and he is rated higher in every single one of them.

Sorry if I seem so persistent on this but I have a really hard time not seeing Barzal putting up 100-110 points last season if he hadn't gotten injured, were 7 months older, and played on a line with Ehlers.

What? Meier was rated higher than Barzal in 2 of the 6 sources you sighted. TSN's Button had Meier ranked considerably higher, and HockeyProspects had them 12 & 13.

 

[Alwalys]

i see a lot of people on here are questioning the Miere pick but im here to tell you as a scout for a team in the QMJHL for 11 years now I am confident in my scouting ability of players, Miere to me is big, strong, amazing hands with excitable play, excellent offensive player, needs to work harder in defensive zone but the guy is killer in the offensive zone...I think too many people on here make judgement without actually seeing the guy on a consistant basis, Miere is going to be a top 2 line forward and is IMO a wayyyyyy better pick than last years 1st rounder who im so-so on, Miere IMO was the most talented player from the QMJHL for the draft in the offensive end and was underrated by A LOT on the board.

For the person above that says he was rated higher on every major scouting service, that means screw all to teams, Miere IMO was the better pick. Barzal does not have the scoring ability Meier does, nor does he have the strength and size Meier does....Barzal has to prove he can stay healthy in my eyes to be in the same class, im not questioning Barzals ability as i know he is skilled and exciting, but Meier is a good playmaker but a great goal scorer as well, and he has even better when Ehlers went down with injury, so your playing on a line with Ehlers does not take effect as he played for awhile without him still keeping up his amazing point pace.

Your 2nd round pick in Roy was just money, the kid IMO should have been taken top 15 in the draft, he is so smart, savy and just picks apart any holes in the game, the kid is going to be an amazing player which will have many teams kicking themselves in the butt later down the road for passing him up.

cant wait to see this kid play

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Thanks for the input, sir.