How to stop embellishment

[Bounces R Way]

Should be a 10 minute misconduct as well as a 2 minute minor penalty. Also automatically reviewed for a fine.
I can live with a little of it but the shit is getting out of hand.

 

[cc]

players embellish because it works. It's no accident that some teams get more benefit than others and more calls going their way compared to their opponent.

all calls should be examined closely after the fact and incur a reputational cost for that player among officials who might in turn look the other way if it happens again.

 

[Dust]

I am not picking on Connor. Everyone is doing it. But look at this. It is mentally taxing on the guy who gets conned too. Joshua was just devastated

He can't skate with him so he impedes him and takes a penalty. About as easy a penalty as you'll see for an official to call.

 

[JAK]

He can't skate with him so he impedes him and takes a penalty. About as easy a penalty as you'll see for an official to call.

It's not about the penalty, it's McDavid's embellishment after.

Both can be a penalty at the same time.

 

[Dust]

It's not about the penalty, it's McDavid's embellishment after.

Both can be a penalty at the same time.

It's absolutely about the penalty. One doesn't happen without the other. And one doesn't get called without the other. Officials do a better job calling the penalties, the 2nd part will go away.

 

[JAK]

It's absolutely about the penalty. One doesn't happen without the other. And one doesn't get called without the other. Officials do a better job calling the penalties, the 2nd part will go away.

Both can be called at the same time when they both happen.

 

[Dust]

Both can be called at the same time when they both happen.

The thread is about stopping it though. Call the penalty.

 

[JAK]

The thread is about stopping it though. Call the penalty.

A penalty was called.

McDavid should also have been called for embellishment on that play. He was impeded, but he didn't have to dive, he easily could have taken the momentum, skate sideways to the board, slowed down.

Same result, penalty on Canucks, no diving,

 

[Dust]

A penalty was called.

McDavid should also have been called for embellishment on that play. He was impeded, but he didn't have to dive, he easily could have taken the momentum, skate sideways to the board, slowed down.

Same result, penalty on Canucks, no diving,

A penalty was called, because he made it obvious there was a penalty. They don't call that if he doesn't do what he did. Which is exactly why we it happen as much as we do. We need better officiating.

 

[JAK]

A penalty was called, because he made it obvious there was a penalty. They don't call that if he doesn't do what he did. Which is exactly why we it happen as much as we do. We need better officiating.

Small interference like that gets missed / no calls regularly. Diving doesn't justify it.

 

[Over the volcano]

Call it when it's obvious, warnings and suspension when you find it after the fact on video.

 

[HanSolo]

It's absolutely about the penalty. One doesn't happen without the other. And one doesn't get called without the other. Officials do a better job calling the penalties, the 2nd part will go away.

It goes away when they start bringing the hammer down on embellishment. Increasing the number of calls to a zero tolerance level will lead to better discipline, sure. But it will also lead to more diving if embellishment goes unchecked because teams like Edmonton who rely on the powerplay advantage will need them all the more when teams start reigning in their undisciplined conduct.

In the McDavid clip, he skated in front of him and impeded, yes, but that's been happening in the NHL for years on years and is typically let go as jostling for position. It becomes interference when there's an intentional hit or similar body contact to stop a guy without the puck. Here, Joshua didn't overtly stop McDavid, he just got in his way. McDavid could have bulled through and forced Joshua to make a hit or skated around. Instead he opted for a dive.

Cheating to sell a call is almost always as bad or worse than the offending call itself outside of conduct severe and intentional enough to be a major.

I really don't get this instinct to excuse embellishment away by blaming the refs for not being more aggressive about making calls. Diving is pathetic behavior that cheapens competition. End of story.

 

[3074326]

Small interference like that gets missed / no calls regularly. Diving doesn't justify it.

If this is the best example you guys have, it's a waste of everyone's time.

An argument can be made that McDavid was off-balance after being interfered with. Whether you or I believe that or not, it doesn't matter. An argument can be made. You can't call embellishment unless it is 100% abundantly clear. He could have caught a groove while being off-balance that made him fall forward.

I actually think it was a dive. But we don't know 100%, so a penalty can't be called. That's a slippery slope we absolutely do not want to go down. Want officiating to get worse? This would do it.

 

[JAK]

If this is the best example you guys have, it's a waste of everyone's time.

An argument can be made that McDavid was off-balance after being interfered with. Whether you or I believe that or not, it doesn't matter. An argument can be made. You can't call embellishment unless it is 100% abundantly clear. He could have caught a groove while being off-balance that made him fall forward.

I actually think it was a dive. But we don't know 100%, so a penalty can't be called. That's a slippery slope we absolutely do not want to go down. Want officiating to get worse? This would do it.

This is why I suggested earlier in the thread to have a board of ex NHL players and referees to study cases brought forward by GMs and Coaches, and hand out fines and suspensions.

For the integrity of the game.

On ice product might not always get you a penalty for it, but the off ice group that has no time limits can study the plays from different angles, your history, your reactions after the play, everything.

 

[nofehr]

I think once Stutzle is out of the league, the number of instances will go way down and it won't seem like as big of an issue.

 

[BLONG7]

Simple. Every game is reviewed after the fact and anyone guilty is given a one game suspension. Double after each incident.

Harsh......but it probably has to be to get it to work.

A couple of seasons ago they used to send a guy a letter, then they would fine him if he did again.....the fine definitely should be heavier, but I think calling the guy out publically at that point would be the embarassment needed.

220 lb guys who have skated go dow way too easy, because they know they can draw a penalty.
It's awful some nights to watch.

I think you tell the players we will come for you after the game once reviewed and it's going to be a big fine or suspension. Then, and only then, does it stop. They all deserve oscars some nights, and it's awful....

I am not giving the refs a free pass here, because they need to do a better job on the ice also....everyone needs to own this.

I think once Stutzle is out of the league, the number of instances will go way down and it won't seem like as big of an issue.

I think we can cite almost one player on every team...............but Timmy is the absolute worst....Marchand can also be very guilty, so the list goes on....

 

[Svechhammer]

You want to stop it?

Put a bounty on embellishment calls for the refs. For every time it's called and it's right, $10k bonus in your next paycheck. If it's wrong, there's just an apology for making the wrong call. Oh, and make this very public where you announce every time the bounty is paid, and during the game, negate the offsetting penalty to the team guilty of embellishment goes on the PK.

Do that for a season or 2 and embellishment would stop in its tracks overnight.

 

[Oleksiak]

Make it an automatic 1 game suspension for the first office and double it for each recurrence. Also suspend the ref who fell for it.

 

[eviohh26]

Instead of taking both off for 2 mins each. Take one off for 2 and the embellisher off for 4.

 

[LTIR]

We need to differentiate embellishment from just flopping.
Floppers just go down easy..
Embellishment is when you pretend you got taken out by a sniper and literally dive to sell the call.

You can't stop Hughes, EP, McD etc from falling down when tapped.
No if they dive ie literally dive to get the refs attention then it should be suspendable.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I don’t think it’s really an issue.

 

[Reality Czech]

Ok , we are going there in this thread






Goaltender interference is not blatantly cowardly like faking penalties is

What about goaltender embellishment? No one flops around on the ice more than a goalie who was brushed by an attacking player.

 

[Bizz]

Bring back enforcers.

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

Just let Tocchet whine the f*** out of any players caught diving.

Make Tocchet the coach of the league. He won't stand for it. His players won't stand for it. It's why they're always falling down.

 

[Sanderson]

Bring back enforcers.

Enforcers didn't prevent cheap-shots, and they sure as heck didn't deter pests (on the contrary), so what on earth makes you think that they would do anything against embellishment?

Embellishment happens when players don't get the calls they should get. Get the first call right, and embellishment will go down. Anything beyond that is redundant. There is no epidemic in that regard. Once you've made sure that players think they get the call if they deserve it, embellishment won't be much of an issue. You will never get rid of them entirely, just like you won't get rid of all cheap-shots or other infractions.