How to get top draft picks without tanking

[DAChampion]

This forum gets an aborted tank for mcdavid thread about once a week.

In all due respect, reiterating the obvious, this is not a tanking squad. You'd need to replace Price, Subban, Pacioretty with Fleury, Phaneuf, Gomez and then maybe we'd be a tanking squad.

The only way we're getting a top draft pick this year is through trade. The likely price for McDavid would be ... Galchenyuk, a 1st, Pacioretty .... which i presume most of you would be reluctant to do.

An alternative i suggest, really I'm curious what others think ... is long term trades. As in, instead of acquiring a 2015 1st rounder in a trade, try and acquire a 1st rounder from 2016 and beyond. The further into the future, the more likely you'll get a uniformly random pick.

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[MasterDecoy]

trade with the leafs

 

[Sterling Archer]

trade with the leafs

Beat me to it except I was going to say the Oilers.

 

[Ezpz]

Trade losers like Bobby Ryan for a 1st to a garbage team.

 

[MasterDecoy]

Beat me to it except I was going to say the Oilers.

nah man, they're stupid, but they're not leafs stupid

 

[Blind Gardien]

What the Habs are going to need to do is keep developing their organizational depth first, however. Right now, the team still doesn't quite have all of its lineup spots filled, let alone have any surplus. But if they can successfully graduate a few more key prospects, the tipping point may arrive. Then if you actually have a few extra guys who would actually have value to other teams (i.e. not Bourque, Moen, Briere, etc. dumps), then you can start to create a self-sustaining model where you can cash in some for additional draft picks down the road.

Keeping a process going over many many years that continues to identify and develop talent at a clip well above the NHL average is not something that is easy, especially as the people running it are likely to turn over as well, but it's a good objective to strive for. I think that the Habs have had a really good drafting/developmental run in recent years, and if things continue to go well with some of the players in hand, there's a chance they could be off and running on this kind of process.

 

[Sterling Archer]

nah man, they're stupid, but they're not leafs stupid

You're right. That's why the Leafs always get lower picks even though they suck. Edmonton is all but a top 3-5 perennial pick. Leafs like to finish 9th so they get the 8-15 picks and draft garbage.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Play like the Oilers, we aren't tanking we just suck that much right now.

 

[hardcorehabs]

Lets say we get the 25th pick.

If we packaged that pick with Fucale, how many spots do you think we could move up?

Do you think if there's a team picking #10 that needs a goalie prospect, is it realistic to think they might do that trade?

 

[Habs 4 Life]

Lets say we get the 25th pick.

If we packaged that pick with Fucale, how many spots do you think we could move up?

Do you think if there's a team picking #10 that needs a goalie prospect, is it realistic to think they might do that trade?

Well it all depends how bad that team would need a goalie. 5 to 7 spots I'd say about, not more then that

 

[sharks9]

Lets say we get the 25th pick.

If we packaged that pick with Fucale, how many spots do you think we could move up?

Do you think if there's a team picking #10 that needs a goalie prospect, is it realistic to think they might do that trade?

Not a chance. Adding Fucale to our pick would probably move us up 5 spots at best. Any team that really needs a goalie prospect would just take one in a later round this year instead of giving up such a high pick.

 

[Le Tricolore]

Be the Oilers. They don't tank, they're just an awful, awful, horribly run franchise.

 

[hototogisu]

Lets say we get the 25th pick.

If we packaged that pick with Fucale, how many spots do you think we could move up?

Do you think if there's a team picking #10 that needs a goalie prospect, is it realistic to think they might do that trade?

No one needs a goalie prospect that badly. Fucale, IMO, isn't even in the top tier of goalie prospects. Guys like Gibson, Vasilevski, Subban plus a late first might get you the 10th overall pick but even then I doubt it.

Cory Schneider, a guy who had more or less already proven himself in the NHL regular season and in the playoffs, returned the 9th overall pick. There's no chance Fucale and a low first return the same value.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

...you don't need to get the top picks to draft successfully and certainly don't need to "tank"; draft smartly, with forward thinking, and develop what you have productively, enhancing their strengths and slowly minimizing their weaknesses through time, patience, and allowing them to grow...we do this now and are rated as one of the deepest prospect pools for this reason...a team of "superpicks" isn't the answer (see: Edmonton)...of all the Habs issues, this isn't one I worry about at all...

 

[M.C.G. 31]

Scout really, really well.

 

[blarneylad]

Scout really, really well.

Yes!

This has led to great later picks: Pacioretty & Subban.

Also the scouting department helped in targeting Sekac which looks like he'd have been a 1st rounder in his draft class considering hindsight.

 

[Agnostic]

This forum gets an aborted tank for mcdavid thread about once a week.

In all due respect, reiterating the obvious, this is not a tanking squad. You'd need to replace Price, Subban, Pacioretty with Fleury, Phaneuf, Gomez and then maybe we'd be a tanking squad.

The only way we're getting a top draft pick this year is through trade. The likely price for McDavid would be ... Galchenyuk, a 1st, Pacioretty .... which i presume most of you would be reluctant to do.

An alternative i suggest, really I'm curious what others think ... is long term trades. As in, instead of acquiring a 2015 1st rounder in a trade, try and acquire a 1st rounder from 2016 and beyond. The further into the future, the more likely you'll get a uniformly random pick.

How can you acquire picks in 2016 and later drafts without using the same untouchable pool of players? It's not like DD suddenly becomes a 2017 first round pick because it's a different year on the calendar.

The only way I see this idea remotely paying dividends is if you trade a first round pick for another team's first round pick in another year and through either random luck or supernatural scouting you get a payoff.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

This forum gets an aborted tank for mcdavid thread about once a week.

In all due respect, reiterating the obvious, this is not a tanking squad. You'd need to replace Price, Subban, Pacioretty with Fleury, Phaneuf, Gomez and then maybe we'd be a tanking squad.

The only way we're getting a top draft pick this year is through trade. The likely price for McDavid would be ... Galchenyuk, a 1st, Pacioretty .... which i presume most of you would be reluctant to do.

An alternative i suggest, really I'm curious what others think ... is long term trades. As in, instead of acquiring a 2015 1st rounder in a trade, try and acquire a 1st rounder from 2016 and beyond. The further into the future, the more likely you'll get a uniformly random pick.

It's a good idea, but like you know, the quality of a team from one year to the other is so random, especially with the ******** 3 point games, that its crap shot.

Also do we have anyone we could give up without hurting the team? For instance Plekanec to the Oilers for their 1st rounder in 2018. Do we get better? Not yet. Do we have the players to replace Plekanec? Maybe by committee, but not one player. Do the Oilers actually make it out of the basement in 2017-2018 season? Maybe?!? LOL

 

[blarneylad]

How can you acquire picks in 2016 and later drafts without using the same untouchable pool of players? It's not like DD suddenly becomes a 2017 first round pick because it's a different year on the calendar.

The only way I see this idea remotely paying dividends is if you trade a first round pick for another team's first round pick in another year and through either random luck or supernatural scouting you get a payoff.

How many GMs (not named Burke) trade 1st round picks in future drafts? You might see a leap frog of one season but I can't remember a pick from 3+ yrs being moved.

 

[BLONG7]

How many GMs (not named Burke) trade 1st round picks in future drafts? You might see a leap frog of one season but I can't remember a pick from 3+ yrs being moved.

True, almost no one trades a #1 pick anymore...
Draft and develop....it's a cycle that needs patience, and most fan bases have a hard time with that...
Look at what Burkie did to the Leafs, he still defends the deal, because he is stubborn, but they could have had so much more with the 2 1st rounders, and a 2nd rounder he gave up....

 

[Brainiac]

True, almost no one trades a #1 pick anymore...

That. GMs saw a few recent examples of teams trading away #1 picks and failing hard.

 

[Whalers Fan]

Lets say we get the 25th pick.

If we packaged that pick with Fucale, how many spots do you think we could move up?

Do you think if there's a team picking #10 that needs a goalie prospect, is it realistic to think they might do that trade?

The top goaltending prospects are going in the 2nd round of the NHL Draft these days. Why would any team give up a mid first round choice for a goalie prospect when they could just draft one with their 2nd round pick, or move up to near the top of the 2nd round at a much lower cost?

 

[blarneylad]

That. GMs saw a few recent examples of teams trading away #1 picks and failing hard.

The Tanguay for a 1st didn't turn out bad (Greg Nesmiz). Plus the habs made that trade in the offseason which gave them the full season with the player (injury shortened mind you). There are times when trading that pick isn't bad.

Add to that, Kessel is a top ten scoring winger. A rare commodity in the NHL. In hindsight they lost the trade because the Leafs were so horrible that season. Something nobody predicted.

 

[Nicko999]

Bring back Craig Rivet and trade him again.

 

[dcal64]

True, almost no one trades a #1 pick anymore...
Draft and develop....it's a cycle that needs patience, and most fan bases have a hard time with that...
Look at what Burkie did to the Leafs, he still defends the deal, because he is stubborn, but they could have had so much more with the 2 1st rounders, and a 2nd rounder he gave up....

That's not true, Buffalo has 3 1st round picks this year, and Edmonton and TB both have 2. So that's 4 picks that have already been traded and we haven't passed the trade deadline yet.

Most contenders easily trade away their 1st round picks since it's a late round pick during a season. If teams trade a pick during the off-season or early in the year, they usually put a condition that if it's a lottery pick, they can defer their pick to the next year (which is what the Islanders did last year), thanks to Burke's bonehead trade, most teams now protect themselves.