How the ratings work: a Jagr reminder

[Hossa]

That is pure insanity in my opinion. Would the same rules apply to Alexander Radulov upon his return?

I just can't see how that makes any sense. There needs to be a formula for computing KHL points into NHL points considering the relative disparity between the leagues is not as strong as it once was. I find it hard to believe that his KHL performance tells us nothing at all about his ability to play the game.

If we start using KHL production to predict HFNHL ratings, what about guys like Matt Ellison and Josef Vasicek who scored at the same clip last year as well. Should either of those guys have the same ratings as Jagr if they return after three plus years abroad?

There's no other viable alternative. It will look a little weird, sure, but any other rating we invent would be arbitrary. There's no track record we could use based on the past three years, we have no idea where his game is at now, and we'd be fools to try to predict the future.

I mean a GM could certainly use such arguments to challenge Jagr's ratings, because a lot of challenges are used to correct exceptional circumstances, but his base ratings have to follow the system. No idea how successful such a challenge would be though.

 

[Vagrant]

I concede!

 

[Hossa]

I concede!

Mission accomplished.

 

[Wildman]

And should we do the same for the AHL, or SEL? I mean, once you start there is no stopping. And yes, the rules apply to all players, even Radulov. 3 years is a wide span. This league has always had its ratings based on the previous NHL seasons. The KHL isn't the NHL.

There is a big difference because guys like Jagr and Radulov are proven NHL'ers and were also in Olympics and WC. I don't think we can compare them to AHl'er who are just starting to break in with no NHL experience.

 

[MatthewFlames]

There is a big difference because guys like Jagr and Radulov are proven NHL'ers and were also in Olympics and WC. I don't think we can compare them to AHl'er who are just starting to break in with no NHL experience.

But the problem with using any other league is that its impossible to determine exactly where the level of that league is in comparison to the NHL. How good is the KHL really? Is it better than the SEL? Or even the AHL? My impression is that rosters are not deep, the league has gone through massive expansion and the quality of the league really isn't all that. As well, 98% of players in that league wouldn't get an NHL contract if they tried, most non-Ruskies are players who've done sod all in the NHL and who are not good enough for the NHL (just like the AHL)... If Jagr had scored 150 points in the AHL, he would have no ratings in the NHL.

And 3 years is a LOONG time in the career of a player who is 36-39. How much has Jagr slowed down, has he, is he better? If you can give me a definitive line of indisputable evidence you might sway my opinion. But I doubt that it can be done.

EDIT: And Sean, don't forget Ryan Vesce and Brandon Bochenski who were all within a point or two of Jagrs KHL totals and who can't get an NHL contract.

 

[Vagrant]

I stand by my concession, but offer this piece of advice.... if he's going to be a 50 OVR player then I wouldn't allow teams to bid on him like his ratings will be impact level ratings. I know this thread is a fantastic reminder for GMs, but invariably somebody will still offer him a huge contract and then bemoan the fact that they didn't know it would happen. He would be better off left out of the league than to come back the same rating as random AHL talent. This is a pretty unique circumstance and it would suck for some team to get stuck with a 5+ million salary all because they missed a thread detailing why his ratings will be nondescript.

 

[MatthewFlames]

if he's going to be a 50 OVR player then I wouldn't allow teams to bid on him like his ratings will be impact level ratings. .

Free market reigns. This original post was the reminder and everyone should know his ratings and status now. If they want to offer him the max... good luck to them...

 

[SPG]

I stand by my concession, but offer this piece of advice.... if he's going to be a 50 OVR player then I wouldn't allow teams to bid on him like his ratings will be impact level ratings. I know this thread is a fantastic reminder for GMs, but invariably somebody will still offer him a huge contract and then bemoan the fact that they didn't know it would happen. He would be better off left out of the league than to come back the same rating as random AHL talent. This is a pretty unique circumstance and it would suck for some team to get stuck with a 5+ million salary all because they missed a thread detailing why his ratings will be nondescript.

That would be their own fault, IMO, for not doing their due diligence. The thread title alone should be enough to draw the attention of anyone considering bidding on Jagr.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, there was a reason I cut Jagr (ie. released his rights) when I did. I knew the way the rules worked, and I knew he wouldn't be a useful player - especially at his price tag. If his ratings were up for debate and not handled like we have in the past, I may have considered keeping him around (although probably wouldn't at 8M/season, but I hope you get my point).

 

[Canuck09]

I didn't think this topic could be carried this far.

 

[bcrt2000]

That is pure insanity in my opinion. Would the same rules apply to Alexander Radulov upon his return?

I just can't see how that makes any sense. There needs to be a formula for computing KHL points into NHL points considering the relative disparity between the leagues is not as strong as it once was. I find it hard to believe that his KHL performance tells us nothing at all about his ability to play the game.

I don't think theres a formula that can convert KHL to NHL or vice versa. The fact is that some players are more suited to the KHL style and some more to the NHL style. I think Jagr is probably a better NHL player and there were also some NHLers who struggled in Europe during the lockout year.

 

[MatthewFlames]

I don't think theres a formula that can convert KHL to NHL or vice versa. The fact is that some players are more suited to the KHL style and some more to the NHL style. I think Jagr is probably a better NHL player and there were also some NHLers who struggled in Europe during the lockout year.

Yup. Some players are suited to the style of a league with 2nd rate players (KHL) and others are good enough to actually play in the NHL

The fact that the top 15 scorers in the KHL contain more than a few players who didn't do squat in the NHL and eventually ran out of contract offers should tell you all you need to know about how bad that league really is. I would honestly rate the SEL AND the AHL as leagues that are better and have better players overall.

 

[SPG]

I didn't think this topic could be carried this far.

LOL. Just wait 'til the annual finance debate.

 

[MatthewFlames]

LOL. Just wait 'til the annual finance debate.

Speaking of which. I don't believe that there will be any TV revenue this year. From Jon's calculations we actually have more money in the league than usual after this past season.

 

[Dryden]

Are you kidding me? I was going to use the tv money to sign Mario Jr. I mean Jagr

 

[Ohio Jones]

Speaking of which. I don't believe that there will be any TV revenue this year. From Jon's calculations we actually have more money in the league than usual after this past season.

Hmm... Must be on Versus...