How painful is it

[Oilslick941611]

How painful is it to watch players that our fanbase have run out of town go on and find success with other teams? especially in net? im specifically talking about Devin Dubnyk and Cam Talbot. Although its always painful for me to see Andrew Coligano and Jeff Petry do well with the ducks and Canadians.

thought?

Click to read more...

 

[29292929]

Goalies can be attributed to oilers still poor defenceman. Sometimes we have a spell cast in us by how good McDavid and drai are that we convince ourselves our f is good. It's not.

I was never one to want to have massive change but watching Talbot play under a decent d core broke me further.

Having that stud on the back end like Gio and Hughes makes all the difference. PetryTPetry wwould be the closest thing t. How have all those draftpicks haven't hit on that piece yet. Look at Hughes outlet pass for GWG, nooo body on oil could ever make that pass, it would be an icing which would lead to a weak out and a goal on them lol.

Klef, Larsson, Nurse, Benning, Russell. Who's is an excellent shooter? Who is an excellent passer? Hell, who's got A class skating? Who's the heady one who makes the smart play?

To that changes Oilers will never succeed, because went rubber hits the road those players on the other team are the differences.

Problem is Oilers always draft dmen based on size and skating never on IQ.....ie Klef and Nurse. They finally took one with Bouchard but then immediately went back to another low IQ in Broberg.

McDavid admired it, "We are missing something"

They all know more than anyone

 

[tardigrade81]

We will get our goalie!!!! One day.

 

[ghostnights]

Our goalie just walked out on his Bruin teammates

 

[Rpenny]

Get the suicide box fired up when Lucic passes the cup to Talbot and Talbot gives it to Reider

 

[Ritchie Valens]

How painful is it to watch players that our fanbase have run out of town go on and find success with other teams? especially in net? im specifically talking about Devin Dubnyk and Cam Talbot. Although its always painful for me to see Andrew Coligano and Jeff Petry do well with the ducks and Canadians.

thought?

Dubnyk was on his way out of the NHL signing a league minimum deal with Phoenix. Let's not forget he was dealt to Nashville where Richard Karn (goalie coach) said he had too many issues to fix, then to Montreal in the same season. He finished in the AHL with the Bulldogs and was getting lit up down there too. He took it upon himself to fix his issues in the offseason, took the league min. deal with Phoenix and rejuvenated his career. Good on him for doing so, but the Wild haven't done much either so I'm not concerned or forelorn about his success with Minnesota.

Talbot...meh. He was a backup most of the season in Calgary but wasn't very good in Philly either after the trade there. I wouldn't call him "successful" yet either after facing a Jets team with no Scheifele, no Laine and no Little. Dallas has looked pretty awful/lethargic as well but the series is far from over. The true test will be if they advance and they play one of Vegas or Colorado, who are both playing like they care and want to win. If Rittich didn't start shitting the bed after the stick toss incident (I believe @Del Preston had the stats on that), Talbot would still be on the bench.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I always preferred Talbot to Koskinen. The upside of talbot wss always higher. He was spectacular for us in 16-17 season and had solid play in NY. Goalies with good form, technique, physical ability, it doesnt completely disappear. Goalies are up and down creatures, even good ones. Talbot was going to find his game again and there was no patience here to wait for that.

Talbot has 2 shutouts in the playoffs now and his performance in any playoffs is night and day better than anybody we have in the pipes now.

What bugs me is Talbot was even a kind of gift from Sather and we can't have nice things. The Oilers have to find a way to devalue it, say the grapes are sour, and get rid of it. It must be hilarious to Flames fans that they are getting this kind of success on our discarded players and it should be. The only player of the bunch we had to get rid of was Lucic and his contract. Rieder had a really bad year here but not representative of the player.

Make no mistake Dallas have all kinds of potential goal scorers and should be able to put pucks in the net but Talbot stoned them silly in 2nd and 3rd periods last night. Talbot making difficult stops look easy, and what he does when he's on. Talbot is right on top of this game, now he's in the Stars heads.

Calgary was vastly outplayed in this game, wasn't even close. Dallas took twice as many shots as Calgary. Something like 80-40, Stars missed the net a lot, but kind of what happens when you start believing you can't beat the goalie. This is the Talbot we had at one time, that we gave away. Could never understand how Talbot was so hated here.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

How did our fan base run these guys out of town?

Dubnyk was sent to the ECHL by Montreal because he was so bad.

Talbot couldn’t stop a beach ball with us or Philly and allowed the first shot of the game to go in 17 times.

Cogliano was straight up hockey traded and Petry was given a stupid contract by a stupider GM who didn’t understand how free agency works.

Sorry but none of these players were “run out of town by fans”.

Justin Schultz was. Dustin Penner was. Jason Arnott was. Not these guys.

 

[McDrai]

How painful is it to watch players that our fanbase have run out of town go on and find success with other teams? especially in net? im specifically talking about Devin Dubnyk and Cam Talbot. Although its always painful for me to see Andrew Coligano and Jeff Petry do well with the ducks and Canadians.

thought?

It's painful to watch, that's for sure. I was discussing this the other day with a buddy:

We run our goalies out of town due to the poor defense.

The poor defense is because we don't have true top pairing dmen to push the other dmen down the depth chart. We have always had the issue of forcing our dmen into depth positions that they cannot handle. The dmen who we push up the depth chart look useless and as a result are traded for a very low return.

Our forwards over the last decade or so have been pretty much useless. Any talented forward depth we did have at one point was traded for pennies on the dollar. See Taylor Hall, Jordan Eberle, David Perron, etc.

Our drafting was atrocious for a while. We were pretty much forced to sign free agents and/or trade for any supporting players. This has improved in recent years with players like Yamamoto and Bear, so that's a positive at least.

Last but not least, our cap situation has been tough the last couple of years. It's going to be extremely difficult building a half decent team around McDavid and Draisaitl, considering we have nearly 14 mil tied up in Neal, Russell, and Larsson.

How to fix this?

1. Keep up the good drafting and draft based on skill and speed, not size.

2. Smarter trades and signings. We cannot afford any more Caggiula/Petry/Eberle/ AA type trades (Yes I think the AA trade was horrible. Hopefully he proves me wrong).

3. Don't put players in positions that they cannot succeed. At the end of the day, we end up trading these players for nothing in return (mainly our defense).

Easier said than done. Those are the key factors that I can see in the lack of success of this team. And yes, things have been painful for the last 13 years or so.

 

[I am the Liquor]

How did our fan base run these guys out of town?

Dubnyk was sent to the ECHL by Montreal because he was so bad.

Talbot couldn’t stop a beach ball with us or Philly and allowed the first shot of the game to go in 17 times.

Cogliano was straight up hockey traded and Petry was given a stupid contract by a stupider GM who didn’t understand how free agency works.

Sorry but none of these players were “run out of town by fans”.

Justin Schultz was. Dustin Penner was. Jason Arnott was. Not these guys.

Tom Poti

 

[Faelko]

How painful is it to watch players that our fanbase have run out of town go on and find success with other teams? especially in net? im specifically talking about Devin Dubnyk and Cam Talbot. Although its always painful for me to see Andrew Coligano and Jeff Petry do well with the ducks and Canadians.

thought?

I miss neither.

 

[Drivesaitl]

How did our fan base run these guys out of town?

Dubnyk was sent to the ECHL by Montreal because he was so bad.

Talbot couldn’t stop a beach ball with us or Philly and allowed the first shot of the game to go in 17 times.

Cogliano was straight up hockey traded and Petry was given a stupid contract by a stupider GM who didn’t understand how free agency works.

Sorry but none of these players were “run out of town by fans”.

Justin Schultz was. Dustin Penner was. Jason Arnott was. Not these guys.

Talbot is a far better goalie than anything we've got. Sorry but its just another thing you were wrong on.

Talbot made a dozen stops yesterday of a variety that Koskinen was not making for us in the play in.

Could even be said Talbot is a money goalie, and plays better in playoffs.

In 2nd and 3rd period he was putting on a clinic. Painfully, I watched. Talbot was making spectacular stops look easy.

For sure Talbot was run out of town by fans, but an org should be a bit more informed than its fans.

There was no patience here to wait for Talbot to get his game back. Why?

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

pretty funny how year after year the media and fanbase pins it all on goaltending, when the defense continues to be in shambles

 

[Frank the Tank]

Not painful at all. Sometimes players need to hit rock bottom and/or hear the same message from numerous coaching staffs before making the changes in training or lifestyle that leads them back to success.

 

[Drivesaitl]

pretty funny how year after year the media and fanbase pins it all on goaltending, when the defense continues to be in shambles

Koskinen was never all that much here. Pretty routine goalie. Not positionally solid, not particularly fast or mobile, doesn't use his size well.

Talbot is capable of spectacular stops. He has the game to shut down opponents when on. He can be a difference maker. Rarely get that impression with our current goalies.

When your combined goalie save % in the playoffs is around .820 they didn't make enough stops. When this is happening against a 23rd place club its pretty bad actually. Throw any traffic or screens at Koskinen and he sure seems to have problems. This of course occurring much more in playoffs.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Koskinen was never all that much here. Pretty routine goalie. Not positionally solid, not particularly fast or mobile, doesn't use his size well.

Talbot is capable of spectacular stops. He has the game to shut down opponents when on. He can be a difference maker. Rarely get that impression with our current goalies.

When your combined goalie save % in the playoffs is around .820 they didn't make enough stops. When this is happening against a 23rd place club its pretty bad actually. Through any traffic or screens at Koskinen and he sure seems to have problems. This of course occurring much more in playoffs.

not saying the goalies weren't a problem in the playoffs, cause they were

but the defense was a joke...Klefbom was braindead, Larsson injured, Nurse was dumb as rocks

it didn't help

 

[Drivesaitl]

not saying the goalies weren't a problem in the playoffs, cause they were

but the defense was a joke...Klefbom was braindead, Larsson injured, Nurse was dumb as rocks

it didn't help

For sure, the D was a joke. But anytime that was happening with Talbot he was being considered the fault. Always maintained that our D never really was that good either in 16-17 or this season. Just that we had stints during reg season where the goalies had better than usual play. Koski can be effective when he sees all the shots. But that just doesn't happen in playoffs when teams are much more determined to get to net.

At no point with the Klef-Larsson pairing on down did I figure this was solid D, or a 1 pairing.

Maybe the good news in this thread is a D like Sekera being easily the worst Dallas D. Offensive potential mia. Sekera couldnt make a play. Don't really miss that guy. He's just been a nightmare in this series. Like he's playing for Calgary. Play after play he's either giving it away, non compete, or botching breakouts. He can't play anymore. So obvious he shouldn't even be seeing the ice.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

guarantee if Koskinen went to a competent defensive team, his number would go up and he'd all be ripping him for "not being that good in Edmonton"
like we have with Dubnyk
like we have with Talbot

 

[Drivesaitl]

guarantee if Koskinen went to a competent defensive team, his number would go up and he'd all be ripping him for "not being that good in Edmonton"
like we have with Dubnyk
like we have with Talbot

Its not always that clear. I didn't like Dubs here due to obvious flaws in his game. At the time he was here he was very sold on being rigid in net. It was really weird. Like he was determined not to make a reaction save. Just hated watching him here.

Never been a fan of Koskinen.

I liked Talbot here after seeing him play just a handful of games.

Of the 3 Talbot has the most upside and most likely to be able to W some big games.

As far as Dubs he improved a lot after here. He wasn't that great while here.

Difference being Talbot was spectacular here in 16-17 and with an overrated D that really wasn't all that much help. Even the year after I thought Talbot was fine, but the team was horrible.

Talbot had one offseason here. Mostly he was solid here. People just got on the "first shot going in" thing and it was as if people were hoping he'd fail. really weird. The fans definitely turned on him despite him being the best player on the 16-17 run.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I'm used to it at this point. Nobody involved with the Oilers can properly assess talent at any level and the fanbase is quick to scapegoat players. I'm not surprised Petry and Talbot are doing well.

 

[T-Funk]

Its not always that clear. I didn't like Dubs here due to obvious flaws in his game. At the time he was here he was very sold on being rigid in net. It was really weird. Like he was determined not to make a reaction save. Just hated watching him here.

Never been a fan of Koskinen.

I liked Talbot here after seeing him play just a handful of games.

Of the 3 Talbot has the most upside and most likely to be able to W some big games.

As far as Dubs he improved a lot after here. He wasn't that great while here.

Difference being Talbot was spectacular here in 16-17 and with an overrated D that really wasn't all that much help. Even the year after I thought Talbot was fine, but the team was horrible.

Talbot had one offseason here. Mostly he was solid here. People just got on the "first shot going in" thing and it was as if people were hoping he'd fail. really weird. The fans definitely turned on him despite him being the best player on the 16-17 run.

You can't spot the opponents a lead to start every game. He let his own team down constantly all season. Was he run out of town or did he play himself out of town? The player has some part in his own play on the ice and regardless of the Oilers management's flaws, of which there are too many to count, a player needs to do everything in their power to win every single night.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Talbot is a far better goalie than anything we've got. Sorry but its just another thing you were wrong on.

Talbot made a dozen stops yesterday of a variety that Koskinen was not making for us in the play in.

Could even be said Talbot is a money goalie, and plays better in playoffs.

In 2nd and 3rd period he was putting on a clinic. Painfully, I watched. Talbot was making spectacular stops look easy.

For sure Talbot was run out of town by fans, but an org should be a bit more informed than its fans.

There was no patience here to wait for Talbot to get his game back. Why?

Because Sekera was coming off LTIR and they had to move salary is my guess. But Talbot was having a year from hell both here and Philly.

Point being the OP said fans drove him off and that couldn’t be further from the truth. His play, contract status and the cap dictated the move as far as I see it.

I agree the Oilers have no clue when it comes to goaltenders.

We always had goaltending since Day One of this franchise but after Roloson our ability to draft, develop and engage existing goalies fell off a cliff.

PS - “many things”????!
Those in glass houses....

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Tom Poti

My list was neither exclusive nor complete.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Because Sekera was coming off LTIR and they had to move salary is my guess. But Talbot was having a year from hell both here and Philly.

Point being the OP said fans drove him off and that couldn’t be further from the truth. His play, contract status and the cap dictated the move as far as I see it.

I agree the Oilers have no clue when it comes to goaltenders.

We always had goaltending since Day One of this franchise but after Roloson our ability to draft, develop and engage existing goalies fell off a cliff.

PS - “many things”????!
Those in glass houses....

Or forwards, or defense, or coaching, or management, or drafting, or....

 

[Drivesaitl]

Because Sekera was coming off LTIR and they had to move salary is my guess. But Talbot was having a year from hell both here and Philly.

Point being the OP said fans drove him off and that couldn’t be further from the truth. His play, contract status and the cap dictated the move as far as I see it.

I agree the Oilers have no clue when it comes to goaltenders.

We always had goaltending since Day One of this franchise but after Roloson our ability to draft, develop and engage existing goalies fell off a cliff.

PS - “many things”????!
Those in glass houses....

I think both of us are so forthright that people tend to notice instances in which we are wrong. We both possess, um, a certain bombast.

heh. My worst moment is probably the Yama thing. But I've been right a lot more than wrong here. Which others?

I don't think its wise for an org to ever pull the plug on a goalie just after one bad season. i think most goalies have such a non stellar year. Not like the club was doing anything last season anyway.

I really disagree on the Talbot thing. Even during broadcasts fans were sarcastically cheering Talbot saves and really getting on him even in the rink. I think what disguised it, or perphaps people not noticing it as much is how much the fanbase here so quickly, resolutely, turned on Talbot. I was defending him lots, and got lots of scorn for it as you recall. Lots of scorn for being consistently critical of Koskinen as well.

Koski is OK. he's never going to be much for us in the post season. for sure he's not a #1 I would hitch the cart to. A team can do that with Talbot. Its quite clear watching Talbot he's got his game back. good for him, too bad its happening for the Flames.