How long is Sheahan's leash?

[Hugh Mongusbig]

I'd say he has a good sized leash because he was drafted to do exactly what he brings to this team. Tip the puck, go to dirty areas, keep possession, and throw a hit here and there. I always like his presence in board battles. He's just having a subpar offensive season. Last year he was pretty solid. The effort is there no doubt about that.

Sheahan has good size and is decent along the boards, but lets not pretend like he doesn't play soft. He certainly doesn't hit. The hits he has been credited with are more than likely instances of other players skating into him by mistake.... I say that because Sheahan avoids hits whenever possible.... how else do you explain a 6'-3" 225 lb player that currently has less hits than 37 year old Datsyuk despite playing in 15 more games than the aging star?

The only regulars on the team that throw less hits per game than Sheahan are Andersson, Kindl, Richards, and Pulkks. 2 of those have since been waived to the AHL. Sheahan seems to lack any kind of killer instinct. For being a professional athlete, he has always seemed far more passive than I would expect.

Maybe all Riley needs is a good sports psychologist.

 

[TheOtherOne]

I wonder, for those of you are content with him for now based on his age, will you still be content if he is the exact same player a year from now? Two years? When, if ever, do you start thinking about replacing him?

I should clarify that I'm not trying to argue for one side or the other. I'm just trying to look at all the facts and see what opinions are floating around.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I wonder, for those of you are content with him for now based on his age, will you still be content if he is the exact same player a year from now? Two years? When, if ever, do you start thinking about replacing him?

I should clarify that I'm not trying to argue for one side or the other. I'm just trying to look at all the facts and see what opinions are floating around.

For the record, I think he has a lot of room to get better. He has only played two full seasons of NHL hockey at this point.

That being said, I wouldn't be thrilled if he didn't improve further as a player from where he is now, but I wouldn't cry about it either. In his current state, he is a more than serviceable third-line center. I am also, however, from the camp that believes that he is outplaying his current production. Even if he doesn't improve much more, I would expect his production to increase.

Life needs to be really good before I start worrying about upgrading a third-line center. This team has a lot more pressing holes than the third-line center spot. If I have cancer I am not going to worry about hang nails.

 

[sean3250]

Riley needs to ride the bench for a few games. On pace for 20 points and its not like he is some defensive savant. He's being outscored by 4th line center Casey Cizikas, and is almost being outscored by Detroit's own Luke Glendening.

People believed he had 2nd line potential, but he's producing at a 4th line level playing with the likes of Nyquist and Tatar.

Realisitically, Sheahan is a 4th line Center, not even a 3rd line Center.

In the past 2 years, Danny Dekeyser has outscored him. A 2nd pairing defenseman, scores more than our "3rd" line Center who receives PP time. That is absolutely terrible.

He doesn't finish his checks or stand up for his teammates. He is literally the forward version of Kindl. 6'3, 220lbs my ass. Biggest waste of size on the team now that Kindl is gone. Besides being good along the boards what else does he bring? The seldom nice deke that he barely ever converts on? Is that the top 6 potential people are saying they see?

His FO% is terrible. He is not a primary PK guy, nor is he that great when he's on he ice for the PK.

He is easily and utterly replaceable. There are a few players who would do better at C than Sheahan right now, including Larkin, Richards, Helm, and AA.

 

[Frk It]

By far the worst offensive season of his NHL career, though. 2 seasons prior he had 60 pts in 121 games. Still at a 35 pt/82 game pace for his NHL career even with this awful season. Saying he's not even a 3rd line center is just looking at this season and disregarding the rest of his NHL career.

Maybe no one has taken a bigger hit going from Babcock to Blashill?

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I've sort of avoided this thread. I think people are being unreasonable with him to an extent. He's being mostly utilized in a third line capacity. And he's playing fairly well. I don't think the door should be closed on him at all.

 

[sean3250]

By far the worst offensive season of his NHL career, though. 2 seasons prior he had 60 pts in 121 games. Still at a 35 pt/82 game pace for his NHL career even with this awful season. Saying he's not even a 3rd line center is just looking at this season and disregarding the rest of his NHL career.

Maybe no one has taken a bigger hit going from Babcock to Blashill?

Past performances should not prevent his current play from being criticized. He's had the same opportunities he's always had, 3rd line C, 2nd PP unit.

For example, Nyquist's past play doesn't bar him from criticism over this years play.

The past is the past. He should be judged based off his current play.

One 36 pt season means nothing especially when those points came when we had one of the best offenses and PP in the NHL. For all we know that season could be an aberration.

Detroit has regressed to the mean, and now its looking like Sheahan, Nyquist etc. are regressing back to their mean as well.

And if his terrible season continues his Pts/GM will be less than 30pts per 82.

 

[Frk It]

Past performances should not prevent his current play from being criticized. He's had the same opportunities he's always had, 3rd line C, 2nd PP unit.

For example, Nyquist's past play doesn't bar him from criticism over this years play.

The past is the past. He should be judged based off his current play.

One 36 pt season means nothing especially when those points came when we had one of the best offenses and PP in the NHL. For all we know that season could be an aberration.

Detroit has regressed to the mean, and now its looking like Sheahan, Nyquist etc. are regressing back to their mean as well.

And if his terrible season continues his Pts/GM will be less than 30pts per 82.

One bad season when our whole team scoring is way down isn't a condemnation, either.

I don't know why you keep saying the past is the past, like it doesn't matter. I provided a bigger sample size where he played good than the one you are using to say he is bad.

Right now he stinks. Don't disagree. But he's shown he can be way better.

Right now he's playing like a 4th line center, but when you look at his whole career I don't think he deserves to be called that. That's all I'm saying.

 

[sean3250]

One bad season when our whole team scoring is way down isn't a condemnation, either.

I don't know why you keep saying the past is the past, like it doesn't matter. I provided a bigger sample size where he played good than the one you are using to say he is bad.

Right now he stinks. Don't disagree. But he's shown he can be way better.

Right now he's playing like a 4th line center, but when you look at his whole career I don't think he deserves to be called that. That's all I'm saying.

Fair enough. I guess I'm being a little too hard on Sheahan. I expected a lot more from this year, and in turn he's been invisible for a majority of the year. Here's to hoping for a better second half of the year.

 

[Frk It]

Fair enough. I guess I'm being a little too hard on Sheahan. I expected a lot more from this year, and in turn he's been invisible for a majority of the year. Here's to hoping for a better second half of the year.

Well, he has disappointed me too. For what it's worth.

I would like to see him, Nyquist, and Tatar heat up the stretch. All of them are capable of more than what they have done so far this season.

 

[SoupGuru]

Sheahan does other things when he's not scoring. Whether he does them well enough to avoid criticism during a dry spell is the question. Unlike Nyquist and Tatar that don't bring much else to the table when they're not scoring.

 

[Bench]

Sheahan does other things when he's not scoring. Whether he does them well enough to avoid criticism during a dry spell is the question. Unlike Nyquist and Tatar that don't bring much else to the table when they're not scoring.

I think the issue is magnified when the team isn't scoring. How many guys can you carry that are "good away from the puck" when you're struggling to sustain offense.

The Wings need a scoring 3rd line center a lot more than they need a shutdown one.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Sheahan does other things when he's not scoring.

...for example?

Does he hit?

Does he agitate?

Does he keep the opponents off the scoreboard?

Does he win faceoffs?

You'd have to stretch pretty far to convince me of any of those things, at least this year.

What else is there? Intangibles?

 

[chances14]

i think he gets more of a pass because he isn't turning the puck over constantly and giving other teams quality scoring chances. he is still responsible defensively and is good at winning board battles and controlling the puck.

when tatar and nyquist aren't scoring, they are pretty much useless from what i've seen this season

 

[ap3x]

Gus may be weak at the puck, but he isn't generally useless when not scoring. Not too hard to acknowledge some scoring chances that he set up.
The intensity may differ a lot during this season, but don't act as if those plays aren't there at all.

 

[Bench]

Gus may be weak at the puck, but he isn't generally useless when not scoring. Not too hard to acknowledge some scoring chances that he set up.
The intensity may differ a lot during this season, but don't act as if those plays aren't there at all.

Yeah. I think "trying to score" often gets mistaken with "turning over the puck." Sure, sometimes you push too much and you concede a bad turnover, but offensive players trying to progress the play are always going to look worse in the turnover category.

If you're always playing it safe or not able to get into a position to try to attack the net, your game might look cleaner, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're helping.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I wonder, for those of you are content with him for now based on his age, will you still be content if he is the exact same player a year from now? Two years? When, if ever, do you start thinking about replacing him?

I should clarify that I'm not trying to argue for one side or the other. I'm just trying to look at all the facts and see what opinions are floating around.

I mean, talking about replacing him is thinking you're going to do much better in the #3C slot. If he stays the player he is now he's still a solid option in that role. He's basically a 35-40 point guy that is having rough luck offensively this year. Any disappointment I have with Riley is due to his potential to be more than a 3rd liner, not because he's bad in that role.

 

[Frk It]

I mean, talking about replacing him is thinking you're going to do much better in the #3C slot. If he stays the player he is now he's still a solid option in that role. He's basically a 35-40 point guy that is having rough luck offensively this year. Any disappointment I have with Riley is due to his potential to be more than a 3rd liner, not because he's bad in that role.

They skated without him yesterday.

Glendening was the 3C and Andersson was the 4C.

Be careful what you wish for folks

 

[chances14]

Gus may be weak at the puck, but he isn't generally useless when not scoring. Not too hard to acknowledge some scoring chances that he set up.
The intensity may differ a lot during this season, but don't act as if those plays aren't there at all.

they haven't been there much at all the last month or so. I am actually thinking that he could be playing hurt. because he looks like a shell of himself compared to even a couple months ago

 

[HockeyinHD]

I mean, talking about replacing him is thinking you're going to do much better in the #3C slot. If he stays the player he is now he's still a solid option in that role. He's basically a 35-40 point guy that is having rough luck offensively this year.

That's sort of true, but sort of not true. His point total last year was definitely goosed due to him having a fairly large role on the PP, which on a team properly staffed with offensive forwards he would not have.

Last year he was playing 2:23 a night on the PP, this year he's at 1:34, and to be perfectly honest I'd rather his IT there get cut up and doled out to the 8 forwards ahead of him in per game PP IT already.

Cut the PP points from his general IT and you're not really talking about a 35-40 point player but a 20-25ish point player. And that's if you assume you're constantly going to line him up with top 6 forwards. If he ever truly played the majority of his time with real bottom 6'ers we could probably point to 25 points as a max, not an average.

 

[sean3250]

That's sort of true, but sort of not true. His point total last year was definitely goosed due to him having a fairly large role on the PP, which on a team properly staffed with offensive forwards he would not have.

Last year he was playing 2:23 a night on the PP, this year he's at 1:34, and to be perfectly honest I'd rather his IT there get cut up and doled out to the 8 forwards ahead of him in per game PP IT already.

Cut the PP points from his general IT and you're not really talking about a 35-40 point player but a 20-25ish point player. And that's if you assume you're constantly going to line him up with top 6 forwards. If he ever truly played the majority of his time with real bottom 6'ers we could probably point to 25 points as a max, not an average.

Yup, that's exactly what I was saying at the top of the page. Sheahan's numbers were inflated because of DRW's awesome PP. Their offense in general was very good last year, in terms of goal scoring. It's looking like most players numbers were inflated last year. That year was an aberration and I have a sinking feeling he might be settling into a 25 point player.

Sheahan brings nothing else to the table and is easily replaceable. Why he has so much support around here is beyond me.

When your scoring is worse than some 4th line Centers, there is a massive problem. Especially when you play with Nyquist and Tatar and get favorable match ups and sheltered minutes.

His only positive quality is his defensive game, which isn't even that amazing.

He doesn't finish checks, doesn't stand up for teammates. His FO% is terrible. He's not a primary PK guy. He's not great on the PP.

Nyquist, Tatar, Abdelkader get plenty of flak but I never see the same for Sheahan. Maybe it's that Canadian bias

 

[Frk It]

That's sort of true, but sort of not true. His point total last year was definitely goosed due to him having a fairly large role on the PP, which on a team properly staffed with offensive forwards he would not have.

Last year he was playing 2:23 a night on the PP, this year he's at 1:34, and to be perfectly honest I'd rather his IT there get cut up and doled out to the 8 forwards ahead of him in per game PP IT already.

Cut the PP points from his general IT and you're not really talking about a 35-40 point player but a 20-25ish point player. And that's if you assume you're constantly going to line him up with top 6 forwards. If he ever truly played the majority of his time with real bottom 6'ers we could probably point to 25 points as a max, not an average.

Maybe he gets PP time and paired with good linemates for... a reason?

 

[HockeyinHD]

Maybe he gets PP time and paired with good linemates for... a reason?

Well, yes. The question is whether those reasons are ones that involve Sheahan himself, or not.

For instance, last year the forwards who played more than Sheahan on the PP as full timers were D, Z, Nyquist, Tatar, Abdelkader. The team adds Larkin and Richards this year and poof, Sheahan's PP IT goes way down.

I'd imagine something fairly similar happened with his ES linemates as well. Without Larkin and Richards last year, Sheahan's obviously farther up the food chain for more plum partners.

IMO, Sheahan's losing his role not because he himself is ostensibly worse. He is mostly what he is. Maybe a little snakebit this year, but not wildly so. He's slipping down the depth chart because as the Wings fill in their forward corps with more competent offensive players, there's not as much room for Sheahan up there anymore.

To be fair, though, he's still getting lots of matchups with Tatar and Nyquist, but that's as much due to the pair of them also sliding down the usage charts (especially at ES) than it is to Sheahan staying afloat.

 

[Frk It]

Well, yes. The question is whether those reasons are ones that involve Sheahan himself, or not.

For instance, last year the forwards who played more than Sheahan on the PP as full timers were D, Z, Nyquist, Tatar, Abdelkader. The team adds Larkin and Richards this year and poof, Sheahan's PP IT goes way down.

I'd imagine something fairly similar happened with his ES linemates as well. Without Larkin and Richards last year, Sheahan's obviously farther up the food chain for more plum partners.

IMO, Sheahan's losing his role not because he himself is ostensibly worse. He is mostly what he is. Maybe a little snakebit this year, but not wildly so. He's slipping down the depth chart because as the Wings fill in their forward corps with more competent offensive players, there's not as much room for Sheahan up there anymore.

To be fair, though, he's still getting lots of matchups with Tatar and Nyquist, but that's as much due to the pair of them also sliding down the usage charts (especially at ES) than it is to Sheahan staying afloat.

I guess it's kind of an issue I have with Blashill this season. He is "defaulting" to a lot of things Babcock did, even when he's not getting similar results. There was no issue with your described usage of Sheahan under Babcock, because he was a .5 ppg player that was very reliable. Blashill is trying to use him the same way while getting very different results. Also is trying the Kronwall-Ericsson and Dekeyser-Quincey pairings. Also started the season playing Glendening way too much.

I'd like to see him try some more new ideas, and take into account guys current play this season a bit more.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Sheahan brings nothing else to the table and is easily replaceable. Why he has so much support around here is beyond me.

Because he's 24. What happens here is that people bake in 'untapped upside' in any evaluation of a guy who is 25 and under. It's sort of the inverse of Babcock's or Holland's old 'the veteran wins all ties' thing. If someone at age 24 is doing something compared to a guy 30 doing the same thing... the 24 year old deserves more rope because of his age.

Sheahan's literally putting up Cleary's numbers over the time frame people here (and elsewhere) were howling for him to be kicked off the team. Since he's doing it at 24 instead of 34, however, people are much more forgiving of that level of play.

I think I'm maybe slightly more high on Sheahan than you are, I see him as more of a plus 4th liner, fill in 3rd liner who does something nice every now and then, but I'm rpetty sure the both of us are a decent amount less positive on him than many are here.

Nyquist, Tatar, Abdelkader get plenty of flak but I never see the same for Sheahan. Maybe it's that Canadian bias

Heh. Yeah, a lot of it is expectation, too. Nyquist put up his huge 2/3rds of a year early on, Tatar was a big scorer at the AHL level (and again pretty early on in Detroit), and Abdelkader walked into a pretty plum assignment that he took a certain amount of advantage of.

When we talk about those guy we're thinking multiple years at 4+. With Sheahan it's much more up in the air.