How Good Would Phil Esposito Be In Today's Game?

[BobbyAwe]

First let me say i am a die-hard Bruin's fan since 1968 and those Phil and Bobby days still form my fondest hockey memories so i am definately not anti-Espo. I am also, however, what i would term a "realist" in believing that athletes, in general, improve as time goes on. That said, evaluating Espo, i would say that he was a perfect scoring machine for his time, but i wonder how effective he would be today? First of all, he was regarded as a very mediocre (if not slow) skater even in his day. With modern training he could improve his skating speed, but i have to believe he would still be one of the slowest out there today. Secondly, his forte of scoring from the slot was helped by the fact that he was bigger and stronger than most of the defensemen who were trying to move him out. That would not be the case today.

What Phil had was great instincts, excellent puck handling skills, desire, and a tremendous touch around the net. I believe he would be valuable today mainly as a power play specialist but i can't see him being a dominant player in general. (Also it could be argued that Orr's mobility gave Phil more opportunities to finish than he would have had on an "Orr-less" team. I think Bobby made everyone on that team a bit better but that may be a bit of an intangible argument)

Opinions?

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[Tavaresmagicalplay*]

I think he'd be a bit like Iginla or Parise only better. There are guys in this league who are not necessarily fast(Iginla is definitely a good example of this) His strength and quick release would have allowed him to dominate.

 

[Blades of Glory]

Esposito's skating was far, far inferior to Iginla's or Parise's. Both of those players are very mobile despite not being "fast" skaters. Esposito was a big rig that slowly maneuvered himself into position into the slot and at the front of the net. Think a way better version of a prime Keith Tkachuk.

 

[Big Phil]

First let me say i am a die-hard Bruin's fan since 1968 and those Phil and Bobby days still form my fondest hockey memories so i am definately not anti-Espo. I am also, however, what i would term a "realist" in believing that athletes, in general, improve as time goes on. That said, evaluating Espo, i would say that he was a perfect scoring machine for his time, but i wonder how effective he would be today? First of all, he was regarded as a very mediocre (if not slow) skater even in his day. With modern training he could improve his skating speed, but i have to believe he would still be one of the slowest out there today. Secondly, his forte of scoring from the slot was helped by the fact that he was bigger and stronger than most of the defensemen who were trying to move him out. That would not be the case today.

There's the thing right there. We are so quick to put down players of a foregone generation by saying that the game is quicker and faster yet people forget that the SUPERSTARS back then would also be quicker and faster as well. Esposito would be in better shape. He'd be 6'1" but even more solid. Serge Savard who was a strong 6'3" defenseman claimed that you could never move Phil from in front of the net. Shouldn't we believe him? Also should we not assume that Espo would have a better training regimen today as opposed to yesteryear? Would that not make him even stronger?

Esposito would be as strong in front of the net as Todd Bertuzzi was in his prime (let's not forget how immovable he was). Esposito also had wicked hands and a soft touch which is something he would have if he played today. The main adjustment for him would be to have shorter shifts, but as I have said before the true all-time greats will adjust their game.

Not to mention playing the slot is not as easy as it looks. You can stand there like a rock and not score a goal. You need instincts, hands, vision, anticipation, hockey sense and Phil had all that. He would have that today in 2010. In my opinion Esposito would have been neck and neck if not better this year than Crosby and Stamkos in goals. He'd have cracked 50+ which is what he usually did. He wouldn't have done it with flash and dash but with effectiveness, that's all.

Phil Esposito scored wherever he went. Chicago, Boston, NYR and Team Canada 1972 when he didn't have Orr to "leech" from. It is rather naive to think he couldn't do it today

 

[Oilers1*]

Dustin Penner is big and slow and not in the greatest shape. He got 30 this year.

Dustin Penner is no Phil Esposito.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Phil Esposito Comparables

In the 1980's it would be the Flyers Tim Kerr in terms of goal scoring but he was not the playe makre or skater the Phil Esposito was.

In the 1990's thru the lockout Eric Lindros who was more mobile, more recklessly aggressive.

Post lockout Nik Antropov who does not have Espo's scoring or playmaking skills but still manages upwards of 30 goals.

 

[Peter9]

Today's game suits the type of goal-scorer Phil Esposito was. He would take advantage of the better diet, training and conditioning available today--perhaps forced to take advantage of them is a better way of putting it--and he'd be better than he ever was in the late Sixties and Seventies. He'd be absolutely dominant in the slot immediately in front of the net.

 

[brianscot]

Skating can be worked upon. While Esposito was never confused with Cournoyer, it's also true that he was mobile and strong enough to get into prime scoring areas.

He just didn't appear there by magic -- (even Orr magic) he got into those areas because he had the skills and drive to get there.

Hands and base hockey sense can be improved upon but not necessarily created by training techniques.

Esposito's hands, vision, imagination and determination would make him a prime goal scorer in any era.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

The guys in recent memory that really reminded me of Espo were Andreychuk and Leclair. Espo really played the game more like a big winger than a center, but because he had Orr playing basically the center role in the offensive zone, Espo could leave those center responsibilities and become a go to the net winger type.

 

[lovetherangers]

Espo had the one thing that can't be understated, a knack for the net. He wasn't the fastest, or the quickest, but he could score, and did score often. I honestly dont think his production would suffer in todays NHL.

 

[shazariahl]

He was the master of the dirty goal, which frankly is an invaluable skill. People too often get caught up on some pretty play where a guy goes through 4 guys and scores a goal, but for every time they succeed, a guy like Espo would bang in two ugly ones from in front of the net. Espo wasn't fast, he didn't have the hardest shot ever, but he excelled at what he did - stand in front of the net and score ugly goals.

And let's face it - until Gretzky came along, Espo was the man. No one had even come close to his goal record. It reminds me of basketball - some guy can make a flamboyant dunk over three guys... but its just one basket. Its not worth any more on the scoreboard than a guy making a bank shot off the backboard from four feet away, it just looks better.

 

[Habsfunk]

He's still be dominant. So many goals today are scored off deflections and rebounds, which were Esposito's bread and butter. Keith Tkachuk is a good comparable, and Espo would be better than him.

 

[Pantokrator]

one thing that you can't teach and that doesn't change through time is hockey sense. the guy knew where to go. Sort of like how Brett Hull would just get into the right spot, Espo knew where to go. I think people fail to consider hockey sense in general - they look at just physical traits and differences, and while you need more than just hockey smarts fo play in the NHL, it doesn't change through time.

Plus, with his hand-eye coordination, (which you can work on some, but it is mostly natural - see Ted Williams, Tony Gwinn, John Kruk, et al.) he would still be able to put the puck in the net.

 

[Reds4Life]

More skilled Holmstrom with a bigger ass.

 

[Big Phil]

Look, another thing worth mentioning is the place Esposito has in history. In his book "Thunder and Lightning" his co-author Peter Golenbock makes this quote in the preface:

"Esposito was the greatest center ever to perform in the NHL. A hulking prescence, he would plant himself in front of the goal, wait for a shot or a pass, then muscle the defenders out of the way as he wristed the puck into the net. The image of Esposito lodged in front of the net waiting to strike, endures like that of Bobby Orr charging up the ice or Wayne Gretzky stickhandling around a defender. Phil is the standard by which all other centers are measured."

Also a quote from Phil in his book:

"Wayne Gretzky was the greatest forward. At the time they said I was the greatest centerman."


Okay is it a little bit of hyberpole? Perhaps. But Espo's quote isn't all that far off. In his prime while he was cleaning up scoring titles it would be easy to consider him the best center of all time. We do this even today, there isn't a day that goes by that a person doesn't think Ovechkin would score 300 points in the 1980s or that he's the best to ever live. So I can see that kind of exaggeration at that time. We do it today!

But the comment made about Esposito being the greatest center to ever perform in the NHL was incorrect obviously. There are centers I would put ahead of him for sure being: Gretzky, Lemieux, Beliveau are all certainly ahead of him. Mikita and Morenz headline the next group who would probably be ranked ahead of him too. That leaves players like Clarke, Trottier, Schmidt, Sakic etc. Personally I would put Espo ahead of them, but it's close.

So what's the point? Well, even if I disagree with the author it goes to show you the value of Esposito. And I can certainly see how someone can get caught up in the heat of the moment in, say, 1974 and call him the best center ever. It happens. As time has gone by Esposito was not better than Beliveau at the very least and I'd put Mikita ahead of him as well.

But it shows you the respect he has in the history of the game. And he should. In what universe does he not excel in today's game?

 

[Crosbyfan]

Look, another thing worth mentioning is the place Esposito has in history. In his book "Thunder and Lightning" his co-author Peter Golenbock makes this quote in the preface:

"Esposito was the greatest center ever to perform in the NHL. A hulking prescence, he would plant himself in front of the goal, wait for a shot or a pass, then muscle the defenders out of the way as he wristed the puck into the net. The image of Esposito lodged in front of the net waiting to strike, endures like that of Bobby Orr charging up the ice or Wayne Gretzky stickhandling around a defender. Phil is the standard by which all other centers are measured."

Also a quote from Phil in his book:

"Wayne Gretzky was the greatest forward. At the time they said I was the greatest centerman."


Okay is it a little bit of hyberpole? Perhaps. But Espo's quote isn't all that far off. In his prime while he was cleaning up scoring titles it would be easy to consider him the best center of all time. We do this even today, there isn't a day that goes by that a person doesn't think Ovechkin would score 300 points in the 1980s or that he's the best to ever live. So I can see that kind of exaggeration at that time. We do it today!

But the comment made about Esposito being the greatest center to ever perform in the NHL was incorrect obviously. There are centers I would put ahead of him for sure being: Gretzky, Lemieux, Beliveau are all certainly ahead of him. Mikita and Morenz headline the next group who would probably be ranked ahead of him too. That leaves players like Clarke, Trottier, Schmidt, Sakic etc. Personally I would put Espo ahead of them, but it's close.

So what's the point? Well, even if I disagree with the author it goes to show you the value of Esposito. And I can certainly see how someone can get caught up in the heat of the moment in, say, 1974 and call him the best center ever. It happens. As time has gone by Esposito was not better than Beliveau at the very least and I'd put Mikita ahead of him as well.

But it shows you the respect he has in the history of the game. And he should. In what universe does he not excel in today's game?

Well put.

I think Espo would still excel offensively in todays game, and his skating would still be a bit of a detriment defensively, perhaps a little more so. Offensively his skating was never a weapon anyway, but he certainly had some great tools and used them well.

 

[a79krgm]

I think he'd be a bit like Iginla or Parise only better. There are guys in this league who are not necessarily fast(Iginla is definitely a good example of this) His strength and quick release would have allowed him to dominate.

I hear what your saying. You don't need to be fast in today's league to be successful. But, Iginla and Parise may not be the best comparisons tor Espo, because they are way faster and athletic than Espo ... hmmm.. How about a guy like Andrew Brunette? This guy couldn't beat my grandpa in a race, but he can consistently put the puck in the net.

 

[Sens Rule]

Today's game suits the type of goal-scorer Phil Esposito was. He would take advantage of the better diet, training and conditioning available today--perhaps forced to take advantage of them is a better way of putting it--and he'd be better than he ever was in the late Sixties and Seventies. He'd be absolutely dominant in the slot immediately in front of the net.

Who cares about diet and fitness. Post lockout no one could get him out from in the front of the net without taking a penalty.

 

[Morris Wanchuk]

Who cares about diet and fitness. Post lockout no one could get him out from in the front of the net without taking a penalty.

Exactly, Espo would own the front of the net.

 

[SealsFan]

He may not have had end-to-end speed but you'd be surprised at how quickly he could cover short sections of ice with his big stride.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

Give him a good playmaking winger and a good cornerman, and he'd score 58-65 a year. Add 50-55 assists on top of that.

 

[lextune]

Who cares about diet and fitness. Post lockout no one could get him out from in the front of the net without taking a penalty.

^This.

With Phil's release, and accuracy, he'd rip the league up, just like he did in his day.

 

[sr edler]

he would have to learn to change on the fly first perhaps?