How good was Kharlamov?

[blundluntman]

Sadly I wasn't alive when Kharlamov was in his prime but I figured some guys on this board would be able to help me out. Just how good was he? Did he rank high among even star NHL players? And if there was a stylistic comparison for his play, who comes to mind? Thanks in advance.

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[Theokritos]

Most people here would agree he was the best LW in the world in the first half of the 1970s (to be precise: up until his first car accident which was in 1976). In the Top 60 Wingers of All Time project, he was ranked 13th. So yes, he would definitely rank high even among NHL stars.

Some opinions from earlier threads:

He had the talent and speed, he was very strong on his skates, and he was feisty (even friggin' Harold Ballard liked him!). Pre-1976, the opposition usually needed to use some dirty/illegal methods to stop him. His stats (which don't make him stand out in any special way) don't necessarily do him justice; you really need to watch him to fully appreciate him. During the 1974 Summit series, I think it was Pat Stapleton who said that he feels the Soviets' emphasis on team play was holding Kharlamov back and he would be even better in the North American game.

I also think the soviet system limited his effectiveness, evidenced by Kharlamov routinely being the best player on the ice yet being outproduced by teammates. He was very much an instinctual player.

Kharlamov was known as a very good playmaker, so I don't really understand the Bure comparison. The comparison I've heard most often is "Guy Lafleur," but that makes a lot of assumptions.

Lafleur always comes to mind. However, like the Bossy/Makarov comparison we saw what Lafleur could do 80 games in and out of the NHL year after year. I don't know how Kharlamov reacts in the NHL as THE star player on his team.

I see his potential upside as Lafleur. His downside, Yvan Cournoyer. Really depends on how well he would have adapted.

In around where Gilbert Perreault was.

 

[Batis]

It is of course difficult to say exactly how high Kharlamov would rank among the greatest NHL-players during his prime but since I view him as the greatest Soviet forward of his generation and one of the greatest Soviet forwards of all time it is in my opinion likely that he would have ranked very, very high. I mean just look at how the top Russian forwards generally have performed in the NHL. I don't see much of a reason to doubt that the top Soviet forwards would have been able to have similar success. Especially considering that a case can be made for that the Soviet Union was superior to todays Russia when it comes to talent development.

At his best Kharlamov was a truly incredible player. This is how he ranked among Soviet forwards in the Soviet player of the year voting during what generally is regarded as his peak years (71/72-75/76) for example.

71/72: Tied for 1st with Maltsev
72/73: 1st
73/74: 3rd
74/75: 1st
75/76: 1st

I personally rank Kharlamov as the third greatest Soviet forward of all time behind Makarov and Firsov. But Firsov and Kharlamov are virtually interchangeable for second place in my opinion. Out of the NHL Russians the only one that I surely would rank ahead of Kharlamov is Ovechkin. Perhaps Malkin has a case for having passed him by now as well? Anyway Kharlamov is in my opinion one of the 4-5 greatest Russian forwards of all time and one of the very greatest forwards in the world during the 70's.

 

[Laphroaig]

Kharlamov was as described in the above post. In my opinion if Bobby Clarke hadn't deliberately broken his ankle in 1972 the Soviets win the Summit Series. I'd put him on a par with Guy Lafleur.

 

[22Brad Park]

Sadly I wasn't alive when Kharlamov was in his prime but I figured some guys on this board would be able to help me out. Just how good was he? Did he rank high among even star NHL players? And if there was a stylistic comparison for his play, who comes to mind? Thanks in advance.

He would of been a superstar in NHL.Scoring machine with lightning speed ,fast hands and smarts and did it on biggest stages.I saw him score some amazing goals that left me speechless

 

[22Brad Park]

Kharlamov was as described in the above post. In my opinion if Bobby Clarke hadn't deliberately broken his ankle in 1972 the Soviets win the Summit Series. I'd put him on a par with Guy Lafleur.

This is dead true.But what if Bobby Orr had of played.Kharlamov was better then Lefleur in my opinion.

 

[22Brad Park]

It is of course difficult to say exactly how high Kharlamov would rank among the greatest NHL-players during his prime but since I view him as the greatest Soviet forward of his generation and one of the greatest Soviet forwards of all time it is in my opinion likely that he would have ranked very, very high. I mean just look at how the top Russian forwards generally have performed in the NHL. I don't see much of a reason to doubt that the top Soviet forwards would have been able to have similar success. Especially considering that a case can be made for that the Soviet Union was superior to todays Russia when it comes to talent development.

At his best Kharlamov was a truly incredible player. This is how he ranked among Soviet forwards in the Soviet player of the year voting during what generally is regarded as his peak years (71/72-75/76) for example.

71/72: Tied for 1st with Maltsev
72/73: 1st
73/74: 3rd
74/75: 1st
75/76: 1st

I personally rank Kharlamov as the third greatest Soviet forward of all time behind Makarov and Firsov. But Firsov and Kharlamov are virtually interchangeable for second place in my opinion. Out of the NHL Russians the only one that I surely would rank ahead of Kharlamov is Ovechkin. Perhaps Malkin has a case for having passed him by now as well? Anyway Kharlamov is in my opinion one of the 4-5 greatest Russian forwards of all time and one of the very greatest forwards in the world during the 70's.

Ovechkin scores almost all his goals on 1 timers from the circle from other guys setting him up and got so many he is considered one of the greatest scorers ever which is without a doubt correct.However he never scored goals though the way Kharlamov did though ,two totally different types of players

 

[Boxscore]

From the footage I've seen of Kharlamov - and the bunch that I've researched and read about him - I believe he would have been among the best wingers in the NHL. From a skill perspective he was right up there with Lafleur - perhaps his closest NHL counterpart in terms of style during the 70s. Either Guy or Gil Perreault. Kharlamov was dazzling.

 

[VanIslander]

Half-Spanish Valeri Kharlamov was the son of Begoña Orive Abad, a Spanish woman whose communist family fled Franco's Spain for Soviet Moscow. "He was the best dancer among the hockey players, heeding the calls of his Spanish blood, performing fiery flamencos and exhilarating rock and roll." His creativity on the ice may be a partial reflection of his heritage and upbringing, as he is described as "...an author of unforgettable 1-on-1 moves that left the best defense players in the world wondering how he managed to outsmart them. He had simply amazing skating and stick handling skills. But, he wasn't just a fast skater. He was able to constantly change the gears of his skating speed depending on his on-ice maneuvers...".


Kharlamov scored 7 points in 7 games in the 1972 Summit Series, 8 points in 8 games in the 1974 Summit Series and led in assists in the 1976 Super Series, a Red Army star against the NHL's best teams, beating the Rangers and Bruins, tying the dynasty Canadiens and only losing against the nasty Flyers in a game in which Kharlamov was targeted and cheapshot injured out of it early in the game (just as Clarke had targeted him in the Summit Series with a vicious slash to the ankle). Earlier that year, in the 1976 world championships, Kharlamov had been the IIHF best forward, earning his 4th all-star selection. He led the Olympics in assists in each of the three tourneys he participated in, in 1972, 1976 and 1980, leading also in goals the first time. He is on the IIHF All-Century Team, joining Gretzky, Makarov and Fetisov.

I have never seen anyone, other than Orr, as fast as Valeri Kharlamov. He’s the only guy I’d mention in the same breath as Orr.

He was our primary target. Every night it was, 'who's going to take care of that guy?' He was dynamite. He had the skill and the ability of any player in the NHL at the time.

Referenced source: Valeri Kharlamov: little genius of the big game

 

[Albatros]

Kharlamov himself was playing football in Spain before the family moved back to Moscow where he started his youth hockey career, maybe that childhood background influenced him as a hockey player too.

 

[Khomutov]

He is considered as the best russian player ever by the majority of fans in Russia. For me this is Makarov but it's very close.

 

[Khomutov]

Ovechkin scores almost all his goals on 1 timers from the circle from other guys setting him up and got so many he is considered one of the greatest scorers ever which is without a doubt correct.However he never scored goals though the way Kharlamov did though ,two totally different types of players

Sure, they're two different types of players, but Ovechkin scored a ton of highlight reel goals.

 

[blood gin]

If he had a full NHL career we'd be looking at several 50 goal seasons no doubt. However he was not very big. 5'8 165. Curious how he'd hold up to NHL abuse in the 70's

 

[GMR]

He is considered as the best russian player ever by the majority of fans in Russia. For me this is Makarov but it's very close.

This is true. The majority of Russians who grew up in the Soviet era rate him higher than any other forward. Makarov doesn't get as revered because he played in a different era of Soviet hockey. The older fans didn't follow him as much. Same thing with players who played in the NHL like Fedorov, Bure, Ovechkin, or Malkin. Tretiak is the only player the majority of Russians rate up there with Kharlamov.

 

[Robert Gordon Orr]

If he had a full NHL career we'd be looking at several 50 goal seasons no doubt. However he was not very big. 5'8 165. Curious how he'd hold up to NHL abuse in the 70's

I agree. We actually have a pretty large sample of games where he played against North American opposition in his career. I looked through my files and came up with the following stats for Kharlamov.

Kharlamov played against North American teams 102 times. He scored 55 goals and added 74 assists, for a total of 129 points. He also had 48 penalty minutes.

Here’s the breakdown of his North American games:

vs NHL (Including the 1972 Summit Series): 17-7-10-17-16
vs WHA (Including the 1974 Summit Series): 27-12-21-33-8
vs the rest (World Championships, Olympics and North American pro teams): 58-36-43-79-24

Totals: 102-55-74-129-48

Home stats: 16-3-11-14-10
Neutral site stats: 24-16-20-36-2
Away stats: 62-36-43-79-36

The most impressive thing is that he played more than 60% of these games in North America on the smaller rinks, and less than 16% on home ice.

He was a well-conditioned athlete who could handle the physical North American game (No, I am not counting two handed ankle-breaking slashes). Yes, he was on the small side, but so was Marcel Dionne, and he did pretty well in that same time span.

Kharlamov would not be a third or fourth liner in the NHL. He would play on the first line, possibly on the second, and he would punish opponents on the man advantage alone.

I am sure that if injury free, Kharlamov would be at least a point-per-game player in the NHL.
He had the wheels, the hands, the fitness level and hockey IQ to be a star in the NHL.

 

[GMR]

I still can't believe that he's a right-handed shot in the movie "Miracle".

Come on Hollywood.

 

[Danny46]

I have seen a lot of old footage to me he is the best left winger ever, nobody produces wingers like the russians...

 

[oilexport]

Reminds me a lot of McDavid. Anyone know why he wasn't a center ?

 

[Eisen]

In addition to the things mentioned, he was one of the most elegant players you'll ever see.

 

[VanIslander]

Reminds me a lot of McDavid. Anyone know why he wasn't a center ?

Because Soviet hockey was built on defensively-minded centers. All the way back to Tarasov's conversion of center into dman, and a rushing dman as an extra forward.

Petrov, Larionov, Fedorov... all groomed on the defensive center model.

(The Czechoslovakians, in contrast, developed a 'torpedo' model of center explicitly, resulting in guys like Hlinka, Novy and Stastny headmanning the puck and seeking individual opportunities.)

 

[Kshahdoo]

He was the best stickhandler in the world back to then. Probably the best skater along with Orr as well.

It's hard to say, who was the better dangler, him or Makarov, but these two are clearly two of the bests in Soviet/Russian hockey history.

People love to call Kovalev or Datsyuk the best stickhandlers ever, but Kharlamov was on par with them and a much better skater.

 

[oilexport]

Because Soviet hockey was built on defensively-minded centers. All the way back to Tarasov's conversion of center into dman, and a rushing dman as an extra forward.

Petrov, Larionov, Fedorov... all groomed on the defensive center model.

(The Czechoslovakians, in contrast, developed a 'torpedo' model of center explicitly, resulting in guys like Hlinka, Novy and Stastny headmanning the puck and seeking individual opportunities.)

That's cool. Thank you for sharing.

 

[22Brad Park]

Sure, they're two different types of players, but Ovechkin scored a ton of highlight reel goals.

Kharlamov did it vs team Canada loaded with the entire countries best players.I can bring up 3 or 4 goals by him better then any goal Ovie ever scored .

 

[Jahara]

Kharlamov was an icon but his legacy is probably inflated because of his early death. This a good piece comparing him to Petrov, Mikhailov, Maltsev and Makarov. Just like Zidane in football, Kharlamov was very good in international tournaments but not that good in league games.

https://thehockeywriters.com/valeri-kharlamov-the-most-overrated-player-in-history/

 

[VMBM]

Kharlamov was an icon but his legacy is probably inflated because of his early death. This a good piece comparing him to Petrov, Mikhailov, Maltsev and Makarov. Just like Zidane in football, Kharlamov was very good in international tournaments but not that good in league games.

https://thehockeywriters.com/valeri-kharlamov-the-most-overrated-player-in-history/

That is quite a big statement (if you base that just on statistics).

Sure, his Soviet league stats look quite mediocre for a player of his stature, but it's not like his PPGA is bad but rather he generally played fewer games (due to injuries?) per season than his linemates Petrov and Mikhailov, for example. He was also a very good playmaker, and they awarded assists quite stingily in the Soviet league (no secondary assists etc), which may have hurt his stats more than in the case of some other players.