News Article: How Dubas' shrewd spending has paid off long-term for Leafs

AcerComputer

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Aug 4, 2014
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I'm genuinely curious what you think Gregor is doing if Lafferty did nothing...

it is wild that a 13th forward is currently producing the way he is with 13 mins a night...

The fact you think Lafferty has been replacement level his entire career is insane.

Gregor's only redeeming quality is he is making league minimum, but he really offers nothing.
With Reeves experiment over, I think adding McMann to that line will open up more ice time and opportunity for Gregor and Kampf. Laffarty wouldn't have had much to do here up to this point, if he was stuck on the 4th line. The difference is so negligible it's not worth worrying about.
 

Lemontree

Fire Dubas
Feb 12, 2018
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I'm genuinely curious what you think Gregor is doing if Lafferty did nothing...

it is wild that a 13th forward is currently producing the way he is with 13 mins a night...

The fact you think Lafferty has been replacement level his entire career is insane.

Gregor's only redeeming quality is he is making league minimum, but he really offers nothing.
Tell me how a 28 year old winger who has played 225 games in his NHL career and produced 26 goals and 39 assists for 65 points and a - 21 isn't a replacement level player. He has a career high of 12 goals, 15 assists and 27 points set last season (2022-23) split between the Blackhawks and the Leafs. 10 goals and 11 assists when he played on a garbage Hawks team that was purposely tanking for Bedard and increased his TOI and usage.

Zack Aston-Reese (29 year old) who most people would tend to agree is a replacement level winger has produced 42 goals, 38 assists for 80 points and a career +33 in 307 games played.
 

notbias

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Feb 16, 2017
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Tell me how a 28 year old winger who has played 225 games in his NHL career and produced 26 goals and 39 assists for 65 points and a - 21 isn't a replacement level player. He has a career high of 12 goals, 15 assists and 27 points set last season (2022-23) split between the Blackhawks and the Leafs. 10 goals and 11 assists when he played on a garbage Hawks team that was purposely tanking for Bedard and increased his TOI and usage.

Zack Aston-Reese (29 year old) who most people would tend to agree is a replacement level winger has produced 42 goals, 38 assists for 80 points and a career +33 in 307 games played.

A better team than the Leafs currently are playing him 13 mins a night... that doesn't seem replacement level.

He is also producing in his limited time.

He is better than Gregor...

Want to address Gregor's terrible stats? This all started because I said Gregor was not playing well.
 

Lemontree

Fire Dubas
Feb 12, 2018
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A better team than the Leafs currently are playing him 13 mins a night... that doesn't seem replacement level.

He is also producing in his limited time.

He is better than Gregor...

Want to address Gregor's terrible stats? This all started because I said Gregor was not playing well.

And Frank Vatrano is going to challenge for the Rocket Richard and James Reimer is going to be a Vezina candidate.

Do you actually think the Canucks are a better team than the Leafs or are they just off to a better start?

Lafferty has played 15 games and has points in 5 games (3 against Edmonton, 1 against San Jose). I would temper your expectations for Lafferty. Gregor has played just fine so far and since most fans would agree that Reeves has been dragging down the 4th line, Gregor has posted. 1 goal, 1 assist and +2 in the only game played without Reeves in the lineup. He did that against Lafferty's Canucks although I don't remember seeing Lafferty on Saturday night.

Your downplaying Gregor and attempting to hype up Lafferty for the sole reason that you cannot let go of the fact that Kyle Dubas was a mitigated disaster to the Toronto Maple Leafs. Any player acquired by Dubas must be defended, any player that has no tie to Dubas is a waste to have on the roster especially if it comes at the cost of a Dubas acquired player.
 

Apex Predator

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Jun 21, 2019
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And Frank Vatrano is going to challenge for the Rocket Richard and James Reimer is going to be a Vezina candidate.

Do you actually think the Canucks are a better team than the Leafs or are they just off to a better start?

Lafferty has played 15 games and has points in 5 games (3 against Edmonton, 1 against San Jose). I would temper your expectations for Lafferty. Gregor has played just fine so far and since most fans would agree that Reeves has been dragging down the 4th line, Gregor has posted. 1 goal, 1 assist and +2 in the only game played without Reeves in the lineup. He did that against Lafferty's Canucks although I don't remember seeing Lafferty on Saturday night.

Your downplaying Gregor and attempting to hype up Lafferty for the sole reason that you cannot let go of the fact that Kyle Dubas was a mitigated disaster to the Toronto Maple Leafs. Any player acquired by Dubas must be defended, any player that has no tie to Dubas is a waste to have on the roster especially if it comes at the cost of a Dubas acquired player.
Amen!! This is getting extremely tiresome to see this back and forth. I would love a a GM that would unite leafs nation back to being all on one side instead of this dumb split.
 
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notbias

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Feb 16, 2017
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And Frank Vatrano is going to challenge for the Rocket Richard and James Reimer is going to be a Vezina candidate.

Do you actually think the Canucks are a better team than the Leafs or are they just off to a better start?

Lafferty has played 15 games and has points in 5 games (3 against Edmonton, 1 against San Jose). I would temper your expectations for Lafferty. Gregor has played just fine so far and since most fans would agree that Reeves has been dragging down the 4th line, Gregor has posted. 1 goal, 1 assist and +2 in the only game played without Reeves in the lineup. He did that against Lafferty's Canucks although I don't remember seeing Lafferty on Saturday night.

Your downplaying Gregor and attempting to hype up Lafferty for the sole reason that you cannot let go of the fact that Kyle Dubas was a mitigated disaster to the Toronto Maple Leafs. Any player acquired by Dubas must be defended, any player that has no tie to Dubas is a waste to have on the roster especially if it comes at the cost of a Dubas acquired player.

Gregor

-14.7% rel xGF
36.6% xGF
27.3% GF
most shot attempts against per 60
tied for 2nd worst on-ice goal differential
3 points in 15 games, on pace for 16

He has been fast... not much else.

Not sure I am seeing this "fine" player.

Nothing to do with Dubas, the player just played their best hockey during pre-season.
 

Lemontree

Fire Dubas
Feb 12, 2018
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Amen!! This is getting extremely tiresome to see this back and forth. I would love a a GM that would unite leafs nation back to being all on one side instead of this dumb split.
Unfortunately, I don't see it happening. Anyone who questioned Dubas being handed the keys to the team was seen as some sort of "enemy" to the Dubas/Chayka analytics community. Even if those people took a wait and see approach to how things would play out was seen as being against them as they did not fall in love from first sight.

As Chayka completely bombed in Arizona and each passing season became more and more apparent that Dubas was unable to move the team forward from the position the team was in before he took over, it became cult like behavior from the Dubas fans. Every move he made needed constant applause or you were a "knuckle dragging caveman or dinosaur" who doesn't understand the game, next would be a barrage of stats that to this day no one knows if they have any actual impact and translate to any measure of predication of actual success.
 

notbias

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Feb 16, 2017
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Unfortunately, I don't see it happening. Anyone who questioned Dubas being handed the keys to the team was seen as some sort of "enemy" to the Dubas/Chayka analytics community. Even if those people took a wait and see approach to how things would play out was seen as being against them as they did not fall in love from first sight.

As Chayka completely bombed in Arizona and each passing season became more and more apparent that Dubas was unable to move the team forward from the position the team was in before he took over, it became cult like behavior from the Dubas fans. Every move he made needed constant applause or you were a "knuckle dragging caveman or dinosaur" who doesn't understand the game, next would be a barrage of stats that to this day no one knows if they have any actual impact and translate to any measure of predication of actual success.

Aren't some of the top analytic teams Carolina, Colorado, and Tampa?

Seems weird to point out analytics failing...

Every team uses analytics... would be weird to spend so much money on it if they did nothing... they are a tool to assist the eye test.
 

Lemontree

Fire Dubas
Feb 12, 2018
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Gregor

-14.7% rel xGF
36.6% xGF
27.3% GF
most shot attempts against per 60
tied for 2nd worst on-ice goal differential
3 points in 15 games, on pace for 16

He has been fast... not much else.

Not sure I am seeing this "fine" player.

Nothing to do with Dubas, the player just played their best hockey during pre-season.
What do your fancy stats say for the game on Saturday night? Again, most people including yourself have laid the problems of the 4th line at the feet of Reeves alone, what did Gregor's game look like with Reeves in the press box?
 

notbias

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Feb 16, 2017
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What do your fancy stats say for the game on Saturday night? Again, most people including yourself have laid the problems of the 4th line at the feet of Reeves alone, what did Gregor's game look like with Reeves in the press box?

"ignore the 15 games Vancouver has played"

"What did the 1 game tell you?"

The stats said that the 4th line got outplayed though...

Let's be real... Gregor should not have scored, but he did, so kudos, but Demko should have had that.

They were the second worst line for driving play behind the Domi line.

Him personally, 3rd worst player on the Leafs for xGF%, and the worst on his line.
 

Lemontree

Fire Dubas
Feb 12, 2018
1,377
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Aren't some of the top analytic teams Carolina, Colorado, and Tampa?

Seems weird to point out analytics failing...

Every team uses analytics... would be weird to spend so much money on it if they did nothing... they are a tool to assist the eye test.
I'm sure they have a component of analytics. Are you telling me that the TBay championship teams that was mostly built by Steve Yzerman and the Avs that were built by Joe Sakic are driven by analytics and not that of the multiple time cup winning former captains.
 

notbias

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Feb 16, 2017
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I'm sure they have a component of analytics. Are you telling me that the TBay championship teams that was mostly built by Steve Yzerman and the Avs that were built by Joe Sakic are driven by analytics and not that of the multiple time cup winning former captains.

It can be both... but I think some of the earliest adopters of the ones I listed.

Yzerman never won a cup... his last year was a first round sweep...

How come Blake hasn't won a cup yet? Francis hasn't won anything. Guerin seems to be going backward. Holland has won cups as GM, same with Lou. Drury can't get over the hump.

There are lots of former players who were good and can't do anything, and then there are GMs who have won multiple cups who can't do anything... not sure what you're getting at...
 

Lemontree

Fire Dubas
Feb 12, 2018
1,377
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"ignore the 15 games Vancouver has played"

"What did the 1 game tell you?"

The stats said that the 4th line got outplayed though...

Let's be real... Gregor should not have scored, but he did, so kudos, but Demko should have had that.

They were the second worst line for driving play behind the Domi line.

Him personally, 3rd worst player on the Leafs for xGF%, and the worst on his line.
You appear to be trying to quote me except I didn't say any of the above. My point was, if Reeves is the sole reason that the 4th line has been terrible than does it make sense to tie that to Gregor, what did the 1 game that Gregor played without Reeves show? Where the x stats similar to the previous game with Reeves in the lineup, was a legit question because I don't look up the x stats.

In real life, what happened in the game was that Gregor had 1 goal, 1 assist , and +2 in the Leafs win, that is an actual measurable contribution in a win. I find it odd that you are going so hard after a 4th line player who made the team on a PTO and playing for league minimum.

I would imagine you have hated what: Reeves, Klingberg, Domi, Bertuzzi and possibly even Benoit and Lagesson (no one should have an issue) have done so far this season. What might these players have in common?

It can be both... but I think some of the earliest adopters of the ones I listed.

Yzerman never won a cup... his last year was a first round sweep...

How come Blake hasn't won a cup yet? Francis hasn't won anything. Guerin seems to be going backward. Holland has won cups as GM, same with Lou. Drury can't get over the hump.

There are lots of former players who were good and can't do anything, and then there are GMs who have won multiple cups who can't do anything... not sure what you're getting at...
Yzerman won multiple cups......as a player, just like Sakic as I was referencing their playing careers prior to being GMs. Those Tampa cup winning teams had their foundation put in place during the Yzerman GM years.
 

notbias

Registered User
Feb 16, 2017
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You appear to be trying to quote me except I didn't say any of the above. My point was, if Reeves is the sole reason that the 4th line has been terrible than does it make sense to tie that to Gregor, what did the 1 game that Gregor played without Reeves show? Where the x stats similar to the previous game with Reeves in the lineup, was a legit question because I don't look up the x stats.

In real life, what happened in the game was that Gregor had 1 goal, 1 assist , and +2 in the Leafs win, that is an actual measurable contribution in a win. I find it odd that you are going so hard after a 4th line player who made the team on a PTO and playing for league minimum.

I would imagine you have hated what: Reeves, Klingberg, Domi, Bertuzzi and possibly even Benoit and Lagesson (no one should have an issue) have done so far this season. What might these players have in common?

Klingberg and Reaves are trash, the rest are fine/good.

Domi has been the best signing so far.

Bertuzzi is turning it around.

Lagesson has been the best D surprise.

Benoit has been fine.

Gregor has been replaceable and is blocking Holmberg who is better (and also a Treliving signing).

His other signings of Kampf and Samsanov have been trash but I think they will both rebound.

I am not as negative towards Treliving as you think, and I'd think even more of him if he corrects his mistakes.

All he needs to do is move out Reaves and Klingberg.
 

Lemontree

Fire Dubas
Feb 12, 2018
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Klingberg and Reaves are trash, the rest are fine/good.

Domi has been the best signing so far.

Bertuzzi is turning it around.

Lagesson has been the best D surprise.

Benoit has been fine.

Gregor has been replaceable and is blocking Holmberg who is better (and also a Treliving signing).

His other signings of Kampf and Samsanov have been trash but I think they will both rebound.

I am not as negative towards Treliving as you think, and I'd think even more of him if he corrects his mistakes.

All he needs to do is move out Reaves and Klingberg.
Reaves might be moved in the off-season, Klingberg signed a 1 year deal, he's not being moved. Tre referenced the lack of offensive and puck moving ability on the back end as to the need for Klingberg, that hasn't changed so the need for Klingberg still exists. He has been transitioning the puck well but he isn't a stout defender, I believe he will settle in a bit more and will be less noticeable in his own end of the ice.

No need to cut bait with a 1 year rental signed as a UFA when each team needs D depth.
 

supermann_98

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Can this thread be locked up please? Every time I read “Dubas’ Shrewd spending” I feel like I’m in the twilight zone or some ish
 

notbias

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Feb 16, 2017
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Reaves might be moved in the off-season, Klingberg signed a 1 year deal, he's not being moved. Tre referenced the lack of offensive and puck moving ability on the back end as to the need for Klingberg, that hasn't changed so the need for Klingberg still exists. He has been transitioning the puck well but he isn't a stout defender, I believe he will settle in a bit more and will be less noticeable in his own end of the ice.

No need to cut bait with a 1 year rental signed as a UFA when each team needs D depth.

Klingberg is not providing offense... that is the issue.

Unless things change he is average offensively and the worst in the league defensively... so hopefully things change or they move on and use the cap elsewhere. For the record, I'd rather him get much better than move him...

20 mins a night, heavy ozone starts, PP1, and 5pts in 14 games, that is really bad.

Would much rather insert Timmins when healthy over him.

He's tied with Gio for ESP.

Anyway, you clearly love all the moves, I dislike two a lot, the rest are fine and some are turning out good.

Clearly won't change your mind even though the eye test and stats don't agree with you, but the back and forth should probably be over.
 

Lemontree

Fire Dubas
Feb 12, 2018
1,377
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Klingberg is not providing offense... that is the issue.

Unless things change he is average offensively and the worst in the league defensively... so hopefully things change or they move on and use the cap elsewhere. For the record, I'd rather him get much better than move him...

20 mins a night, heavy ozone starts, PP1, and 5pts in 14 games, that is really bad.

Would much rather insert Timmins when healthy over him.

He's tied with Gio for ESP.

Anyway, you clearly love all the moves, I dislike two a lot, the rest are fine and some are turning out good.

Clearly won't change your mind even though the eye test and stats don't agree with you, but the back and forth should probably be over.
I never said I loved all the moves. I didn't like the 3 year Reaves deal at the time it was announced, I also didn't like the Kampf contract extension as soon as it was announced. The Domi, Bertuzzi and Klingberg one year deals all made sense and still do make sense.

You won't let go of this weird fascination with Sam Lafferty and most people here are aware of your posting history regarding the previous GM. Dubas had more years to put a stamp on this roster than Tre has had months (to date). Its refreshing to see the rational in why moves are being made and an attempt at roster construction. You can keep yelling into the wind because the "Tre" Leafs roster hasn't been able to win the cup in November.
 

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