How do you make the Leafs a great defensive team?

The Podium

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Feb 19, 2010
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With many UFA LHD available, Gardiner out for assets and another in to replace him may be an overall net positive.

For example:
Rielly - XXXX
De Haan - Zaitsev
Dermott - Hainsey

That top pairing RH side is still an issue. Perhaps Hamhuis takes a 1 year deal to support Rielly until a top pairing D can be acquired via trade or 2019 UFA.
 
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Mess

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You can't expect a small, soft teams built for skating to be strong defensively because you need strength and often size to be able to win puck battles.

Babcock loves Hyman because he can do that, but too few Leafs are equipped with his puck pursuit abilities and dog on a bone mentality of relentless effort to win those board and puck battles.

Leafs are bottom 5 in the league in shots against and shots against lead to goals against. To be better defensively you need to cut down shots by winning more puck battles and maintaining better puck possession.
 

Prince N

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Nov 18, 2014
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Leafs are bottom 5 in the league in shots against and shots against lead to goals against. To be better defensively you need to cut down shots by winning more puck battles and maintaining better puck possession.
This...I hope others see the importance of this and find a better playing style and a few player upgrades that will fix this. By the way...shots against are also the forwards faults!
 

TheScandal89

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Jun 26, 2016
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????? - Reilly
Dermott - Hainsey
Borgman - Zaitsev
Extras: Polak/carrick, etc.

Pretty much how I see the defence in my mind.
Put Reilly to the right side unless we get the covetted rightie. Easier to get a Leftie i suppose.

Zaitsev needs a Borgman/Hainsey as his partner to cover up for his lack of defensive awareness, you cant stick him with Gardiner and Reilly who are also not great defensively either.
 
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LeafingTheWay

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May 31, 2014
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Want a better defensive team? Start with the forward group. As 'bad' as our defensive group was last year, I disliked our forward group's defensive game even more.

The number of times the forwards are caught cheating in the offensive/neutral and defensive zone is amazing.
 

Liminality

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Oct 22, 2008
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Want a better defensive team? Start with the forward group. As 'bad' as our defensive group was last year, I disliked our forward group's defensive game even more.

The number of times the forwards are caught cheating in the offensive/neutral and defensive zone is amazing.
I know Vegas is another hot topic but just look at Vegas. They are a 5 man unit in every zone. I think our forwards can get to that point and the Marlies seem pretty good at that too which is a good sign.
On the defensive side, got to upgrade that right side. The left can't do much if the right keeps getting hemmed in or can't exit the zone properly.
 
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luvdahattymatty

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Apr 8, 2018
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THIS IS A GREAT THREAD AND QUESTION. I wish i had the answers but i know it is a monumental job. My opinion is they need defenders who make it much more difficult to get to Andersen. Guys who think defense first. Guys who are bigger. Guys who can move the puck like Vegas defenders. You can have a couple skater boys like Winnipeg has in Morrisesy and Enstrom but you can't have 5 of those guys. anyways great thread and i hope Shanny can figure it out. I talked to his brother brian and i know they are trying hard to fix it.
 

Goonface2k14

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Nov 25, 2009
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- Get bigger, get meaner.

- Less fancy, stretch-pass happy d-men.
Consistent icings and turnovers are not helpful.

- Stand up to opposing forwards at the blue line more. They gain the zone far too easily, far too often.

- Less line matching, stop over-coaching. Play your best players as much as possible, and have the puck more often.
 
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hoglund

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Dec 8, 2013
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How do you make the Leafs a great defensive team?

Is it possible? This question has been in my head ever since we got bounced from the playoffs. I'll concede that our defense isn't that bad. We can call it average if you'd like. Babcock and Dubas have both said that they are fine with our defense. And that's fair. But how do we make it our strength? How can we turn ourselves into a great defensive team? Is it possible?

I doubt anybody on here believes Leafs are a great defensive team... so how do we get from here to there?
Hire Randy Carlyle.
 

LeafingTheWay

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May 31, 2014
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I know Vegas is another hot topic but just look at Vegas. They are a 5 man unit in every zone. I think our forwards can get to that point and the Marlies seem pretty good at that too which is a good sign.
On the defensive side, got to upgrade that right side. The left can't do much if the right keeps getting hemmed in or can't exit the zone properly.

Yeah exactly. Nashville's system is what I want them to have. Their D-group is great BUT their forward group makes that D-group look even better because they cover their mistakes as a 5-man unit.

Their D pinch without even checking to see if anyones covering for them because they know 100% a forward is going to cover them. With Toronto, the D has to check multiple times and then make last-second judgment calls to pinch. The forwards are always expecting the D to win the pinch and are deep in the offensive zone. It's so frustrating.

But yeah as for the D, I would go with this next season:
Rielly - Dermott*
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Rosen/Borgman - Hainsey/Carrick
 
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DarkKnight

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Jan 17, 2017
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Want a better defensive team? Start with the forward group. As 'bad' as our defensive group was last year, I disliked our forward group's defensive game even more.

The number of times the forwards are caught cheating in the offensive/neutral and defensive zone is amazing.
Bozie and JVR leaving is a net plus defensively.
 

Mitchy

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I think the Leafs are going to have to change their breakout system a little bit.

Its nice to have the long-pass breakouts in our aresnal, but its very risky and puts a lot of pressure on our defensemen.

Our forwards (wingers in particular) need to support our defenders a bit better, IMO.

This right here is our biggest culprit, imo. The stretch pass is extremely important in today's game, but we are far too reliant on it. High risk, high reward.

I'd love to see our transition stats and compare them to good defensive teams.
 

Ziggdiezan

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Apr 10, 2015
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........... The forwards are always expecting the D to win the pinch and are deep in the offensive zone. It's so frustrating.

But yeah as for the D, I would go with this next season:
Rielly - Dermott*
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Rosen/Borgman - Hainsey/Carrick
This is spot on, they never seem to expect the worse to happen so never track back to cover those 50-50 battles. Or they are so hungry for goals they take the risk so they are in a good scoring opportunity even at the risk of a goal against. Not sure which.
 
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moon111

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Bozie and JVR leaving is a net plus defensively.

Just remember both Kessel and JVR have only had a better plus/minus over Bozak once. Often you can't just compare
a player's numbers v.s. the team or the league, but their linemates. You can't look at Nylander's +20 and think he has
a huge defensive game. He's pretty good at stealing the puck, but outside of that, you can easily see why his +/- is less then
his line-mates. For the forwards, outside of the Matthew's line, Bozak had the highest +/-. He might of had a better
result over JVR, C.Brown, and Marner for a reason. I've seen him miss assignments, but often he knows he's being
beat. Often it's more about speed then awareness issues. Overall, I don't think the Leafs replace him.
They might find a better defensive center, but not one who'll throw up the same amount of points.
 

The Shrike

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Jul 13, 2008
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Improving their goal differential/shot differential is the key, not just improving their goals against average/shot suppression. There is more than one way to do that.
 

Boutette

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Just remember both Kessel and JVR have only had a better plus/minus over Bozak once. Often you can't just compare
a player's numbers v.s. the team or the league, but their linemates. You can't look at Nylander's +20 and think he has
a huge defensive game. He's pretty good at stealing the puck, but outside of that, you can easily see why his +/- is less then
his line-mates. For the forwards, outside of the Matthew's line, Bozak had the highest +/-. He might of had a better
result over JVR, C.Brown, and Marner for a reason. I've seen him miss assignments, but often he knows he's being
beat. Often it's more about speed then awareness issues. Overall, I don't think the Leafs replace him.
They might find a better defensive center, but not one who'll throw up the same amount of points.

I think Aaltonen can be both a better defensive center than Bozak and throw up the same amount of points (say if he played with the same linemates who are currently dominating the AHL playoffs, Johnsson and Grundstrom.) Of course, that would require being given half the gimme offensive zone starts that Bozak has gotten the last couple years.
 

moon111

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I think Aaltonen can be both a better defensive center than Bozak and throw up the same amount of points (say if he played with the same linemates who are currently dominating the AHL playoffs, Johnsson and Grundstrom.) Of course, that would require being given half the gimme offensive zone starts that Bozak has gotten the last couple years.
Yet I'm not sure the top AHL scorers from last season managed 40 points in the NHL this year.
 

Boutette

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Sep 28, 2017
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Yet I'm not sure the top AHL scorers from last season managed 40 points in the NHL this year.

Yet Aaltonen performed better in his first year in the AHL at about the same age that Bozak played his first season in the AHL, both as AHL rookies. I'd say that's a less irrelevant point than yours.
 

LeafSteel

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Get the ‘Canes GM stupid-drunk and pick Jordan Staal and Pesce off of him for futures and prospects.

Great defensive centre and top 2 d-man? Yes please!
 

67Leafs67

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Nov 8, 2014
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Here are my thoughts on the matter. Perhaps a little bit of a different view, as I'm not really in the camp of "acquire an excellent shutdown defenseman" or "trade away Gardiner". I don't think that the traditional defensive D, shutdown guys is really necessary for good team defense in this league.

The Leafs management has already built a team that is suited for a certain defensive style. Totally revamping this now does not really make a lot of sense. We have a great backbone in Freddy, but we can't just rely on that totally, as we saw this season. One can see the style of defense we need for success on the left side. Gardiner, Rielly, and Dermott. How do they defend? Skating, decision making, and passing. They are effective transition players, moving the puck out of our zone, and into the opposing zone with possession. Problem is, the right side does not exhibit these same traits. Polak, Hainsey, and Zaitsev are not good at breaking the puck out, or navigating the neutral zone. Effectively, each left side D was handicapped by a weaker partner, and made it easy for teams to target a specific player or side for transition play, as there was only one threat on the back end. My solution would be to bring in, not necessarily big name guys, but the right guys, guys who fit into this system, and can do two things well: a) Break out and into the zone, and b) limit opposing teams from doing the same. The second part is where our three left side guys struggle a bit more. Especially at stopping other teams from breaking out by holding the blueline.

So, let's say we have a blank slate on the right side, and Polak, Zaitsev, and Hainsey are all deemed unfit. Who do we fill the void with in the next few years? The most obvious candidate is Timothy Liljegren in my opinion. He is a great skater and puck mover who's a right handed shot. I don't think we need to add in huge names. Look at teams like Pittsburgh, or even Vegas. Without Letang (like in their 2017 Cup win), they have no big name, all-star defenders. I don't think the Leafs need that either. Maybe the solution is already in the system. I see guys like Connor Carrick and Justin Holl, and think that they both might be more fit for these right side roles than Polak and Zaitsev. Maybe not, especially with Holl, but I think it is at least worth a shot. The other name I'll throw out, that will get me a lot of heat, is Martin Marincin. He is superb at limiting entries into the zone, has played the right side with Rielly before, and is an excellent penalty killer. He has done so well in the AHL this season, and I really believe that he could seamlessly replace Ron Hainsey and maybe do an even better job. I don't know much about Ozhiganov, but maybe he is a better defenseman in terms of transition? I'm curious to see him play.

The point is, I don't believe that we need to be trading away Gardiner, and brining in Hamilton or Tanev, or signing Carlson. I mean, it's great if we do, but there might be some much more cost-effective options to perfect a system already in place, that, if it works, can be highly effective, not only in stifling offense, but in producing it for our team. A big part of this is on the forwards too. One thing I didn't see from the Leafs this year was a great use of our speed on the forecheck. Look at how the Lightning killed Boston with their aggresive forecheck. We could do the same, and I think that would help us a lot to limit opposing teams from entering the zone, and give us a lot more possession time. I really like how the roster has been trending more slowly toward speed, with guys like Martin and Komarov finding themselves out of the lineup by the end of the year in favour of young guys with skill, such as Johnsson and Kapanen.

Who knows if it will work out. But I don't think a drastic personnel change is needed as much as maturation, coaching, tactics, and effort from the players. When our forwards use their legs on the forecheck and backcheck, and if we have a defense full of players like Rielly and Gardiner, we could easily become a formidable foe.
 

lifelonghockeyfan

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Dec 18, 2015
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If there was time machine, maybe we go back to the mid sixties or even the 93 Leafs.
Leafs won't be able to trade their way or UFA sign their way into a great defensive team.
But the Leafs should be better with development of own players....Reilly, Dermot and Borgman (I think Borgman is going to NHL good). Zaitsev...with his contract, the Leafs better hope he can be better, Liljegren in a year or two. If you look at he big majority of NHL teams, they wish they all had better Dmen
 

Notsince67

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Apr 27, 2018
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This is what I think will happen. No huge trades, no big FA signings
Gardiner stays
I think Gardiner is decent. I also think he will be too expensive after next year. I would trade him for young prospects and/or draft picks. Use that and the existing pipeline to fill the gap. The leafs do not need to win as much in the regular season. Use the time to develop young players. Closer to the end of the year, move Liljegren up for a few games (give him a taste). Win enough to make the playoffs and if the defensive side isn't up to par, make a trade move.
 

X66

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Aug 18, 2008
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Leafs will become better defensively with age, their veterans also need to be better defensively.

When I looked at the leafs at the end of the season, these were my thoughts.

1.We have easily the worst right-side in the entire NHL with how Babs was rolling d-pairings at the end of the year. The bright side to this is, this was never a finished project and the team is not rushing.

2. Our D-pairings have terrible chemistry with each-other. In my honest opinion, we should have been trying out a lot more D-pairings down the stretch to see if things could be better, I don't think any of our pairings complement each-other well.

If I could re-do the season, I'd be very interested in trying out these pairings down the stretch:

Gardiner-Rielly
Dermott-Zaitsev
Hainsey-Carrick

3. Our veteran forwards aren't really the best defensive players, Marleau and Pleks were fine, but we didn't get much from JVR(although his offence counters this), Bozak, Komarov(at even strength) Moore.
 

TheScandal89

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Jun 26, 2016
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Anyone think its possible to move up to 5th overall from Arizona and select Evan Bouchard from the Knights. That would be a good move if the price isnt outrageous.
 

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