How did Valeri Nichushkin's NHL career survive only 70 points in his first 230 NHL games?

[FoxyClean]

Is it a Kaapo Kakko type situation where his defensive and possession game was so good he was worth keeping despite offensive underperformance? Did the Stars just never give up on him until the worst time?

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[KaraLupin]

Three full seasons for a 10th overall pick, what's wrong with that?

 

[Bounces R Way]

He was a top 10 draft pick.
He was(is) big.
He was cheap.
He played 200 games, indicating he was at least a competent NHL player.


First round picks who get their foot in the door will often get 2nd, 3rd, sometimes 4th chances at sticking with a NHL club. Especially if they're big and especially if they're cheap. The Ritchie brothers are still floating around somewhere. Paajarvi played 9 seasons in the NHL despite never cracking 20pts after his rookie year.

 

[Buck Naked]

He was a top 10 draft pick.
He was(is) big.
He was cheap.
He played 200 games, indicating he was at least a competent NHL player.


First round picks who get their foot in the door will often get 2nd, 3rd, sometimes 4th chances at sticking with a NHL club. Especially if they're big and especially if they're cheap. The Ritchie brothers are still floating around somewhere. Paajarvi played 10 seasons in the NHL despite never cracking 20pts after his rookie year.

Yup. Some people claim that Lias Andersson is still out there on an NHL roster as well. It has yet to be proven.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

The title is a bit misleading because he had that one season where he only got 10 points. Aside from that season and 14-15 (where he barely played any games) he's always been on pace for 30+ points.

 

[ijuka]

Is it a Kaapo Kakko type situation where his defensive and possession game was so good he was worth keeping despite offensive underperformance? Did the Stars just never give up on him until the worst time?

What are you talking about? Nichushkin's first 2 seasons were fine. His third season was bad, after which he was not "kept" - he was traded.

Of course, he was in KHL for some time as well but I'm not sure how much that comes into play.

 

[Kcb12345]

What are you talking about? Nichushkin's first 2 seasons were fine. His third season was bad, after which he was not "kept" - he was traded.

Of course, he was in KHL for some time as well but I'm not sure how much that comes into play.

Nichushkin was bought out, not traded.

He wasn't happy with his ice time/usage I believe which is why he left for the KHL. Came back as a good defensive player but his offense was no where to be found. He actually did show signs of possibly becoming a good 3rd liner imo who could make some plays cause he had some nice assists despite his low point total. His shot was amongst the worst in the league though (had special drills in practice just for him to practice elevating the puck) and Dallas' offense was not good. Stars didn't need another bottom 6 guy, so he got bought out. Had Dallas not bought him out and instead kept him that extra year, it's definitely possible he'd be out of the league by now. He wasn't going anywhere there.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

He's big & forechecks well.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Is it a Kaapo Kakko type situation where his defensive and possession game was so good he was worth keeping despite offensive underperformance? Did the Stars just never give up on him until the worst time?

The fact he PLAYED answers part of your question

he was injured in his second year

pts per year/games playd

34/79
29/79
russia for 2 years
10/57
27/65
21/55
52/62

This season is the outlier for his career pts wise if you are just looking at that

 

[WarriorofTime]

He went to the KHL for two years, and was put on Waivers by the Stars after he came back, so he didn't really... just got another shot and made it work.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

first of all lame way to shoehorn a Kakko thread on the the main boards, and second of all Nich's NHL career almost didn't survive, he went back to Russia after only a couple seasons, came back and sucked again and Dallas dumped him. Colorado took a flyer on him and it paid off big time, but being picked up by such a good team probably helped him just as much.

 

[Ceremony]

Here is a recent interview from Russia where he explains a bit about what happened in Dallas and why he's improved so much in Colorado: «Проиграли пятый матч финала — начал психовать. Казалось, упускаем кубок». Первое интервью Ничушкина после чемпионства в НХЛ

You'll need to translate it but you'll get the gist.

 

[SomeDude]

Three full seasons for a 10th overall pick, what's wrong with that?

Players who do not produce within 30 games are busts. Everyone on HFboards knows that.

 

[glovesave_35]

Nichushkin reinvented himself. He was weak on the puck and did not look like he could play defense or wanted to try. He used up all the leeway a top pick gets, and apparently did what few players can. He realized he wasn't the player he thought he was and made himself into a valuable one.

I respect him for finally figuring it out, but he was slapped with a massive wakeup call.

 

[shadow1]

Aside from 2014-2015, when his missed all but 8 games due to injury, Nichushkin's only bad year was 2018-2019 (0 goals, 10 assists in 57GP).

He's basically been a 30-35 point two-way winger his entire career, aside from last season when he was reward with a big ice time jump (14:05 -> 19:02).

 

[Steerpike]

He was bought out and didn't have a contract coming into the 2019-2020 season. His career as the player he was in Dallas was over.

On a player tryout in Colorado he basically just needed to do everything he possibly could to get another chance. He has the tools to be an incredible utility forward and he put them to use. His confidence and scoring touch were still very dubious until this season.

Nuke is still super divisive in terms of what he will be moving forward. So divisive you could probably strike him with a neutron and start some sort of chain reaction.

 

[TheRumble]

Most guys who "suck" are playing for coaches that have rigid philosophies and are trying to fit square pegs into round holes instead of adopting their play styles to a player's talents.

The 17-18 Golden Knights team is a perfect example of it on both ends actually. They had a ton of players that were languishing away on other teams bottom pairings and bottom sixes that broke out for them - William Karlsson, Shea The adore, Nate Schmidt etc. but they also famously traded for Tomas Tatar, healthy scratched him and then traded him to the Habs the next year where he put up 30 goals.

Nate Schmidt in particular stands out as a player who was a victim of a rigid coach. He was a fast modern style two way defenceman that was a common sighting in the press box for the Caps for three years. Trotz didn't trust him over Brooks Orpik who was in the verge of retirement or Karl Alzner who was out of the league at 30. He goes to Vegas and becomes one of the important pieces of their Cup run.

When I heard stories that Barzal wasn't getting along with Trotz, I wasn't surprised. Barzal's career high in production still remains his rookie season and Trotz's system chokes the life out of players like Barzal offensively. He's a 90 point player at worst on a more offensive minded team.

 

[ViD]

Here is a recent interview from Russia where he explains a bit about what happened in Dallas and why he's improved so much in Colorado: «Проиграли пятый матч финала — начал психовать. Казалось, упускаем кубок». Первое интервью Ничушкина после чемпионства в НХЛ

You'll need to translate it but you'll get the gist.

Thanks; that was a pretty good interview

 

[D Wakaluk]

I mean, thats not too bad?

There are worse players point-wise carving out a career out there

 

[biturbo19]

He was a top 10 draft pick.
He was(is) big.
He was cheap.
He played 200 games, indicating he was at least a competent NHL player.


First round picks who get their foot in the door will often get 2nd, 3rd, sometimes 4th chances at sticking with a NHL club. Especially if they're big and especially if they're cheap. The Ritchie brothers are still floating around somewhere. Paajarvi played 9 seasons in the NHL despite never cracking 20pts after his rookie year.

Yeah. Big guys who at one point showed the skill to be a top pick like that, typically get a very long runway.

Though even then, Nichushkin's career very nearly didn't survive that early portion. He essentially washed out of the league for the KHL, and only came back on a bargain bin flyer "no risk" sort of contract. Which he made good on as a serviceable cheap player.

 

[KingsFan7824]

He accepted a 1 year league minimum contract after a 0g season. Knowing you have absolutely no leverage goes a long way. Having a 10th overall pick pedigree and a 6'4 frame doesn't hurt either.

 

[MBTendy]

Super happy for Val. Dude was not handled right in Dallas from the get go. From that interview, sounds like Nill was overpowered and forced to buy him out by others

 

[Chips]

Most guys who "suck" are playing for coaches that have rigid philosophies and are trying to fit square pegs into round holes instead of adopting their play styles to a player's talents.

The 17-18 Golden Knights team is a perfect example of it on both ends actually. They had a ton of players that were languishing away on other teams bottom pairings and bottom sixes that broke out for them - William Karlsson, Shea The adore, Nate Schmidt etc. but they also famously traded for Tomas Tatar, healthy scratched him and then traded him to the Habs the next year where he put up 30 goals.

Nate Schmidt in particular stands out as a player who was a victim of a rigid coach. He was a fast modern style two way defenceman that was a common sighting in the press box for the Caps for three years. Trotz didn't trust him over Brooks Orpik who was in the verge of retirement or Karl Alzner who was out of the league at 30. He goes to Vegas and becomes one of the important pieces of their Cup run.

When I heard stories that Barzal wasn't getting along with Trotz, I wasn't surprised. Barzal's career high in production still remains his rookie season and Trotz's system chokes the life out of players like Barzal offensively. He's a 90 point player at worst on a more offensive minded team.

What was the caps system back then far was what D did? I guess I don’t remember well but I thought it had more to do with Trotz loving vets too much. Seemed guys like Gleason and Chorney got in over Schmidt too. Schmidt actually had great underlying numbers, but that was because he did all the little things well consistently and tilted the ice, but he didn’t pass Trotz “eye test” because his style obviously makes the same mistakes look worse than a stay at home guy, but Schmidt performed well I thought.


Then again Carlson really broke out offensively when Trotz left, tho he had improved decently Trotz’s last year with the Caps so idk how much was just his individual development vs change in team system or philosophy

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Yeah. Big guys who at one point showed the skill to be a top pick like that, typically get a very long runway.

Though even then, Nichushkin's career very nearly didn't survive that early portion. He essentially washed out of the league for the KHL, and only came back on a bargain bin flyer "no risk" sort of contract. Which he made good on as a serviceable cheap player.

You have it wrong.

He didn't come back on a bargain bin contract. That came after. He returned from the KHL in 2018/19 on a 2 years, $2.95M per year deal with Dallas. Then got bought out after one year.

He signed with Colorado in the summer of 2019 after very nearly signing with the Islanders before that, but a late call from Sakic telling him to wait until Sakic got back from vacation before signing anything with anybody changed his mind to go with Colorado instead.... And the rest is history.



As for the OPs question. His defensive responsibility was always part of his game. He's had solid metrics for his entire career. But as he said in his recent interview, him and the coach in Dallas did not get along well at all(I believe it was Lindy Ruff), despite he and the Dallas GM having a great relationship.

But he also gave a lot of credit to Mackinnon and Bednar for him becoming the player he is now. He said in that interview in his first year in Colorado, seeing how hard Mackinnon worked not only on the ice but also off the ice even after games working out and stuff, working on his shot every day, etc. etc, he basically said to himself he doesn't have an excuse to not work just as hard if one of the best players in the game is working like that. So he started putting in serious work and that translated not only off the ice but on the ice as well. He became tenacious on the forecheck, back check, his shot has gotten way better, and he's basically legitimately transformed into a legit Top 6 forward with the working mindset of a 3rd line grinder.


He also mentioned Bednar a lot in his interview saying that he's an easy coach to want to play for, often very calm in his speech's and very fair to all players. He said whether you're a 4th line guy or 1st line guy you want to play and earn those minutes with Bednar.

 

[DJJones]

0.30/ppg is fine if you are positively contributing to the team.

If you are some no defense winger and getting that then ya, you won't last long.