How Did The Pens Get Here?

[rkhum]

It really feels odd that most will say the Pens are in the hole they are due to salary constraints+bad drafting=no depth outside superstars.

I mean, in the late 90s, we had Jagr, but no $$$, and Patrick's drafts were awful (Sven Buthcenson?).
You'd think with the salary cap era, the Pens would have benefited not having to sell off players like before.

Instead though, it seems (and please correct me if I am wrong) but in a nutshell the Crosby/Malkin era can be summarized:

08/09: The Glory Years
10: The onset of bad defense play/coaching+MAF struggles+fatigue from the prior two finals.
11: Injuries, no way that team was making a run.
12: Immaturity/bad coaching/MAF struggles ruining that season
13: Bad coaching/Immaturity ruins that run
14: Waaay too long past due date on Shero/Bylsma/depth

to now, 2015 where the Pens are not a contender.
Their "window" was 2008-2013.
The first two years we made the finals.
I'm willing to give a mulligan for 2010 and 2011 given injuries and the fact that no team in this era makes 3 cups in a row.

2012 and 2013 were the years where we blew it, and now, the window is closed, at least for this season because of:

HORRIBLE Drafting/Developement on par with the late 90s.
That is what it seems, in a nutshell, has us now where we aren't close talent wise to the 08-12/13 bunch.

So coming full circle, the late 90s were Jagr+scrubs due to $$$ and bad drafting.
2015=Crosby/Malkin/MAF/Letang+injuries+no depth (again) due to primarily HORRIBLE player development.

So, it seems the late 90s debacle and this debacle are because the organization outside of a few luck and can't miss picks, cannot develop good support players. That's what is most upsetting; the salary cap meant we didn't have to $ell Malking/Crosby to big markets; but it didn't save us from poor management.

Click to read more...

 

[rkhum]

I'll add, I think JR has done a good job.

He did give up some picks, but got us what looks like a few players who can help out.
The big problem is we have NOBODY at forward who can even push for 4th line role in the NHL (aside from Kappenen and that is waay too early).

I HOPE that DP/Demoulin/Harrington turn out to be NHL regulars AND Maata recovers...that is really the only way this gets turned around in the next few years....because without them we have no assets...no young/hungry players...just declining/expensive/againg people.

 

[IcedCapp]

misplaced, misguided loyalty and a poor understanding of what veteran presence and leadership are.

 

[gordie]

They hated Therrien despite the success and got him fired after going to the finals the year before. They go on to win the cup and now you've had a team that is very hard to coach and even harder to get to respond. No heart or desire and is willing to quit at the drop of a hat.

 

[Sam Spade]

They can't stay healthy, don't think it is much more than that.

 

[cygnus47]

A stubborn belief in the value of veteran presence, a coach that failed to keep his players on board with the original message (or alternatively himself failed to stick to his message), a failure to create an accountable culture that rewards good play and therefore encourages it, injuries to key players, a lack of the desire and pride to win every battle and shift.

 

[rkhum]

They hated Therrien despite the success and got him fired after going to the finals the year before. They go on to win the cup and now you've had a team that is very hard to coach and even harder to get to respond. No heart or desire and is willing to quit at the drop of a hat.

But the point is....THEY ARE NOT TALENTED ENOUGH right now to win a cup.

They were from 08-13; and failed after 09 due to injuries/immaturity/bad coaching+inconsistent goaltending.
That blew that window.

They ARE NOT a contender now irregardless of the above due to HORRIBLE player development.
That ended the window.

Is my autopsy accurate?

 

[gordie]

But the point is....THEY ARE NOT TALENTED ENOUGH right now to win a cup.

They were from 08-13; and failed after 09 due to injuries/immaturity/bad coaching+inconsistent goaltending.
That blew that window.

They ARE NOT a contender now irregardless of the above due to HORRIBLE player development.
That ended the window.

Is my autopsy accurate?

They aren't and especially with Maatta out. But they should have beaten Montreal in 2010, Tampa in 2011, Philadelphia in 2012 and the Rangers in 2014. All choke jobs or in case of Philadelphia being completely disorganized and unprepared.

 

[Phil68]

So at this point the Pens will trade Malkin over the Summer because there is nothing else left for the pens as assest.. I highly can think Letang has a huge value due to injuries..End of the road.. After the trade Malkin the Pens will go in rebuild mode

 

[eXile59]

They can't stay healthy, don't think it is much more than that.

Then you aren't paying attention.

Even healthy we struggle.

 

[gordie]

So at this point the Pens will trade Malkin over the Summer because there is nothing else left for the pens as assest.. I highly can think Letang has a huge value due to injuries..End of the road.. After the trade Malkin the Pens will go in rebuild mode

Babcock first and then adjust this roster for the next two seasons and see if the can win a cup with Crosby & Malkin hitting 30. If not, then you go into a major rebuild and trade off veterans.

 

[Til the End of Time]

penguins stopped making decisions based primarily on merit and instead valued familiarity and comfort. this permeates all levels of the organization, from the coaching staff to draft picks to rosterdecisions to the medical staff. shero was ruthless when he joined the penguins in a good way, but somewhere around the loss to the Canadians he let croneyism take over. he was still cold to many people but he now had favorites.

this is based on my own observations and conversations I have had with a former team physician.

 

[zero8771]

penguins stopped making decisions based primarily on merit and instead valued familiarity and comfort. this permeates all levels of the organization, from the coaching staff to draft picks to rosterdecisions to the medical staff. shero was ruthless when he joined the penguins in a good way, but somewhere around the loss to the Canadians he let croneyism take over. he was still cold to many people but he now had favorites.

this is based on my own observations and conversations I have had with a former team physician.

As someone who is very critical of Crosby's play. Curious what you think of him the past week or so?

 

[zero8771]

Then you aren't paying attention.

Even healthy we struggle.

This.

Injuries are hurting this team for sure... but they have enough to get it done.

Injuries are making it so they can't cover up for their core issues, but the issues are still there. And they are still the same ones.

I suppose there is a chance that the injuries have killed the teams confidence/whatever and that if we didn't have them we'd be very good. But good teams overcome adversity

 

[Til the End of Time]

As someone who is very critical of Crosby's play. Curious what you think of him the past week or so?

Pretty great. No complaints whatsoever.

 

[KIRK]

penguins stopped making decisions based primarily on merit and instead valued familiarity and comfort. this permeates all levels of the organization, from the coaching staff to draft picks to roster decisions to the medical staff. shero was ruthless when he joined the penguins in a good way, but somewhere around the loss to the Canadians he let cronyism take over. he was still cold to many people but he now had favorites.

this is based on my own observations and conversations I have had with a former team physician.

Ultimately, THAT is how it came to this. This should've been an organization that from top to bottom had a philosophy that said 'this is Sid and Geno's team, the rest of you are expendable and are subject to being asked what have you done for me lately every day'. Instead, it became the organization where a jabroni like Craig Adams could initiate a fight with Malkin without repercussion and where the GM, past and present, might count on one hand the number of roster players he considered expendable.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Because of guys sitting in the luxury suites and high up in the arena that make the decisions. A wee bit of it is the once young core that is very "brat like" and "comfortable" but a good owner/gm combo can beat that out of them. The ones here aren't(haven't been) competent enough to do so.

 

[gordie]

penguins stopped making decisions based primarily on merit and instead valued familiarity and comfort. this permeates all levels of the organization, from the coaching staff to draft picks to rosterdecisions to the medical staff. shero was ruthless when he joined the penguins in a good way, but somewhere around the loss to the Canadians he let croneyism take over. he was still cold to many people but he now had favorites.

this is based on my own observations and conversations I have had with a former team physician.

Didn't we hear Jordan Staal rumors before the trading deadline? Even with the 2009 cup winning cronyism of Shero & Bylsma seemingly gone with their firings, there are people left who can't let go of the past. A new GM and new front office people should change that and obviously they have some more firings to do,

 

[The Greatest 101]

The monument Ray Shero drafted the likes of Beau Bennett and Derrick Pouliot and traded Joe Morrow,you knew how it would end.The Perron trade will set back the franchise another five years.

 

[Phil68]

The monument Ray Shero drafted the likes of Beau Bennett and Derrick Pouliot and traded Joe Morrow,you knew how it would end.The Perron trade will set back the franchise another five years.

I agree, we could parted ways with one of our mane defenseman to get another forward. But giving up a first without having many draft picks to choose, really hurts

 

[DegenX]

penguins stopped making decisions based primarily on merit and instead valued familiarity and comfort. this permeates all levels of the organization, from the coaching staff to draft picks to rosterdecisions to the medical staff. shero was ruthless when he joined the penguins in a good way, but somewhere around the loss to the Canadians he let croneyism take over. he was still cold to many people but he now had favorites.

this is based on my own observations and conversations I have had with a former team physician.

Oddly enough, the fall of 2010 was when Moorehouse was given additional power within the organization. Kind of a strange coincidence, no? Shero's change in methodology coincides with Moorehouse becoming CEO. And now Shero is gone, but the things we like to rail against, like Adams still having a roster spot, are still happening. Wonder what your friend has to say about that particular dynamic?

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Ray Shero and Dan Bylsma were allowed to run amok with this team for entirely too long. The amount of damage they wrought cannot be fixed in the course of one offseason. It likely can't be fixed in the course of two calendar years.

Bottom line is this; Shero/Bylsma have ****ed this team over for 5 years, and the lingering stink of their abomination is going to stick around for another few years.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

They can't stay healthy, don't think it is much more than that.

That's way, way, way too simplistic of an answer. It ignores things like how the team actually looks, its inability to hold leads, etc.

Injuries aren't helping things, but there are things that are fundamentally wrong that aren't due to just missing some players.

 

[ColePens]

The weird thing is... in 2010 we talked about the system changes, the defense, and not understanding what DB was implementing. I never thought it'd take us down this horrible road. I can almost remember my exact post about the defensive zone.

2015...and wow. 5 years. 5 bloody years.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

The weird thing is... in 2010 we talked about the system changes, the defense, and not understanding what DB was implementing. I never thought it'd take us down this horrible road. I can almost remember my exact post about the defensive zone.

2015...and wow. 5 years. 5 bloody years.

Yeah. Just for ***** and giggles I looked up the Bylsma thread made right after the Cup and there are some pretty interesting posts throughout. One thing that stuck out is that a handful of us have legitimately been complaining or campaigning against Bylsma for 5 years.

Five god damned years. And nothing's changed. Not one thing. We still don't have wingers (a decade-old problem). We still don't have a coach making competent personnel decisions, holding players accountable, or getting the team to play up to potential. We still have an atrocious bottom six. We still have deadweight strewn throughout the roster.