How did Minnesota ever lose the North Stars?

[Kritter471]

I think the likelihood of that happening would have been pretty low, the circumstances were different at that time and for that market for a couple of reasons:

1. Gary Bettman was hot to expand the NHL south of the Mason-Dixon line, and a lucrative location like Dallas was quite an option.

I know it was mentioned above, Bettman had next to nothing to do with the relocation of the Stars. That was in the works long, long before he came into office (I think the move was announced like.... two weeks or a month after he took over, and the agreements in place long before that though not finalized). Dallas had been on the NHL's radar since the mid-1980s, and at least one if not several exhibition games rolled through town in the 80s.

To Fidel, the NHL would never have bought the NS because they were never illegally put into bankruptcy. If they had been forced to purchase the team for some other reason, they would have likely moved because the arena issues with MN trying to basically demolish the Met Center for other uses and the move to the Target Center not making sense from a financial standpoint.

It is a totally different scenario from Phoenix, where the building is fine (in a slightly less-than-ideal location but fine) but the owner got into financial trouble in the recession and tried to subvert the NHL's sales rules.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

Do recall that the Gunds wanted to move the Stars to Bay Area. (They sold the team and got the expansion instead.)

So, you need to look pre-Bettman at the mindset around the league, economy, etc., for part of the reason.

rumor was that the Stars also looked at moving to Anaheim as well

We made a deal to move the North Stars to Anaheim, California, to become the L.A. Stars. Anaheim had a new building for hockey that was immediately available. My plans were canceled when Disney offered to put a team in Anaheim and use Disney talent to help market the NHL. In December 1992, the league asked me to allow Disney to come into the league. In return, I would have NHL approval to move the Stars wherever I could make the best deal. In January 1993, I selected Dallas, after encouragement from the only Texan I knew: Roger Staubach.

http://www.dmagazine.com/Home/D_Mag...gest_Moments_in_Modern_Dallas_History_11.aspx

 

[RECsGuy*]

Psst, the North Stars played in the Met Center from their inception in 1967. The Target Center was built/finished in 1990.

The Met Center had great ice, only held just under 16,000 (about the size of the Forum in L.A.), but had great sightlines and was pretty highly regarded around the league. The location, "out in the burbs" as it was, was along a major freeway, very convenient.

Psst, I know all of this, but how about YOU explain why folks in the first state of hockey had trouble getting to Bloomington. Attendance was lagging long before Norm Green announced the franchise's move.

Indeed it was. The Target Center on its best day is a second-rate arena and inferior to the Met Center from day one. But, it's downtown. That's what they wanted....

And it had skyboxes/suites, which the Met lacked. It certainly doesn't have the uninhibited sightlines the Met did, but then again no arena/stadium today does. The Target Center could have absolutely hosted NHL hockey, and done so successfully. An absolute joke that the city waited until the North Stars left to buy the Target Center. The only way it would sting more is if they purchased the arena a year earlier.

 

[RECsGuy*]

California already had a team when the Sharks were awarded the expansion. Remember LA? They had been around for quite a while...

Obviously I didn't forget the Kings. I thought Texas was the U.S.'s most populous state. My bad. Re-read my original post with that in mind.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

Obviously I didn't forget the Kings. I thought Texas was the U.S.'s most populous state. My bad. Re-read my original post with that in mind.

California has a ton more people than Texas.

California should(and we be it if were back East) several states

 

[Kritter471]

California has a ton more people than Texas.

California should(and we be it if were back East) several states

Texas is the second most populous state by about 12 million but growing at a quicker rate (both proportionally and raw numbers) than California. Both states would be multiple states on the east coast. Right now California is at 37.2 million, or roughly 12 percent of the US population, and Texas at 25.1 million, or roughly 8 percent, with no other state topping 20 million.

His point still stands - Texas was bound to get a team eventually, especially once the league started moving franchises around in the early 1990s.

 

[rafterman]

Psst, I know all of this, but how about YOU explain why folks in the first state of hockey had trouble getting to Bloomington. Attendance was lagging long before Norm Green announced the franchise's move.

It's not that people had trouble getting to Bloomington, it's that the team was terrible. If you take the complete fluke '90-91 run out, between 1984 and 1993 when they left, they won ONE playoff series, and other than one 2nd and one 3rd place finish in the division, came in 4th or 5th the other years.

And yes Minnesota calls itself the 'state of hockey', but that doesn't necessarily mean 'state of NHL hockey'. There are plenty of hockey nuts in MN that would rather watch high school and college hockey. In the scheme of local pro sports the NHL is 3rd at best, and would probably be 4th if not for the complete longstanding ineptitude of the local NBA franchise.

And it had skyboxes/suites, which the Met lacked. It certainly doesn't have the uninhibited sightlines the Met did, but then again no arena/stadium today does. The Target Center could have absolutely hosted NHL hockey, and done so successfully. An absolute joke that the city waited until the North Stars left to buy the Target Center. The only way it would sting more is if they purchased the arena a year earlier.

Yes, the TC could have hosted NHL hockey and was built with a movable floor to keep sightlines/seats proper, but once the T-Wolves were made the primary tenant and pretty much given control over the arena and advertising I'm sure Norm saw the other options as more attractive (along with the personal issues that had come up). It's the same reason the Twins and Gophers wanted out of the Dome so badly, ALL suite revenue, regardless of event, went to the Vikings. Revenue options were severely limited.

 

[Badger36]

The reasons why Minny lost the North Stars are pretty simple:
1.) Poor attendance
2.) Needing a new arena but not able to come up with the money
3.) Norm got busted sexually harassing one of his employees
4.) Norm thought the team would be more profitable in Dallas.

In the long run I think it was a good thing because it made people in Minnesota appreciate having an NHL team. Look at them now: the Wild pretty much suck every year but they still sell out pretty much every game.
As much as people would like the North Stars name to return, its not going to happen because Norm owns the rights to it and isnt going to let the Wild use it.

 

[Brodie]

wasn't Wild picked in a fan vote? I was hoping they'd pick Northern Lights

 

[Mike in MN]

Yup. "Wild" was by far the best name among the finalists. I mean White Bears? Blue Ox?

I don't understand the hate for the name Wild anyways. Even here, there exists a small minority who still refuse to lets the Stars go and refuse to care about the Wild because "of that stupid name" It's been a decade now. The name's not changing. The North Stars aren't coming back. Move on

 

[llamapalooza]

Yup. "Wild" was by far the best name among the finalists. I mean White Bears? Blue Ox?

I don't understand the hate for the name Wild anyways. Even here, there exists a small minority who still refuse to lets the Stars go and refuse to care about the Wild because "of that stupid name" It's been a decade now. The name's not changing. The North Stars aren't coming back. Move on

"Northern Lights" and "Voyaguers" were in the running and were vastly better choices in my opinion, but I'm a strong believer that sports teams sound kind of stupid if they're not plural nouns.

Now it's a small proportion who hate on the Wild because of the Stars, but I think the number of North Stars sweaters you see at any Wild game, and the propensity of fans to still start the old "Norm Sucks" chant when Dallas visits, show that people still are upset about the relocation. To suggest it's just about a name change is vastly oversimplifying things; there are bigger issues floating around regarding, among other things, regional identity and pride.

 

[Brodie]

Northern Lights... the could have just been called the Lights in practice

 

[sushinsky4tsar]

The six names were Northern Lights, Voyageurs, Freeze, White Bears, Blue Ox, and Wild.

I think the team ultimately made the executive decision to go Wild. I recall that an informal viewer voting on the local news station placed the Wild in the bottom two.

I've never been big on the name, but to their credit they have marketed it well. At first, I was afraid it would be Wild.. and crazy!!! (Born to be Wild song blaring on every goal). Instead the theme has been geared towards MN Wilderness (ambiguous as it is).

I do love the primary logo. It's a little busy, but they hit on all the bases. Mississippi River, subtle salute to the North Stars, forests, hills, even the general shape is in the outline of Lake Superior.

The colors are fine but they need to ditch the red Xmas tree jerseys and bring back the green jerseys from the early years.

 

[sushinsky4tsar]

Target Center nearly became the home of the Jets. I think it came down to Phoenix and Minneapolis.

St. Paul made a big pitch for the Whalers with a renovated St. Paul Civic Center proposal before Raleigh ultimately emerged. I believe Columbus was in that fight as well.

 

[sushinsky4tsar]

And yes Minnesota calls itself the 'state of hockey', but that doesn't necessarily mean 'state of NHL hockey'. There are plenty of hockey nuts in MN that would rather watch high school and college hockey.

..or head down to the rink for some broomball or curling.


I think the (relative) popularity of girls hockey has played a big part in the success of the Wild. The Met was a rough and rowdy crowd. The Wild are more geared towards family-friendly entertainment.

The Wolves were also a hot ticket at that time as well. They had crowds of 35,000+ for their inaugural season, and I would imagine the brand-new Target Center helped to steer some of the corporate dollars away from the Met.

 

[Buck Aki Berg]

I hear a lot about the sexual harrassment suit that came up and played a role in the North Stars moving to Dallas. I'm having trouble linking the two together - how did this factor in?

 

[llamapalooza]

I hear a lot about the sexual harrassment suit that came up and played a role in the North Stars moving to Dallas. I'm having trouble linking the two together - how did this factor in?

Essentially, Green had a personal reason to want to skip town rather than stick around and try to make it work long-term.

 

[RECsGuy*]

I hear a lot about the sexual harrassment suit that came up and played a role in the North Stars moving to Dallas. I'm having trouble linking the two together - how did this factor in?

Green's wife interpreted Kari Dziedzic's claim of sexual harassment as an accusation made by a jilted mistress, thus prompting the paranoid, jealous ball and chain to corner her husband with an ultimatum: move the team, which would therefore move you away from your "tramp," or I'm leaving you.

 

[Fidel Astro]

To Fidel, the NHL would never have bought the NS because they were never illegally put into bankruptcy. If they had been forced to purchase the team for some other reason, they would have likely moved because the arena issues with MN trying to basically demolish the Met Center for other uses and the move to the Target Center not making sense from a financial standpoint.

It is a totally different scenario from Phoenix, where the building is fine (in a slightly less-than-ideal location but fine) but the owner got into financial trouble in the recession and tried to subvert the NHL's sales rules.

I didn't mean to imply that it was the same scenario, just that if the NHL had bought the team (as it did in Phoenix), and held onto it until a new arena was built, maybe they would have stayed in MN. With the NHL as owners, the issue with the lecherous owner being forced to move the team by his wife wouldn't really exist.

I'm sure the NHL was more than happy to go to Dallas, though... just like it was more than happy to move the Jets to Phoenix.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Fidel Dallas is the 5th largest TV market with 6.9 million people. Come on.

 

[jessebelanger]

Fidel Dallas is the 5th largest TV market with 6.9 million people. Come on.

Indeed..both the Stars and the Wild have turned out to be pretty solid franchises (Hick's personal issues aside). Not sure what the beef is here..

 

[TaketheCannoli]

I didn't mean to imply that it was the same scenario, just that if the NHL had bought the team (as it did in Phoenix), and held onto it until a new arena was built, maybe they would have stayed in MN. With the NHL as owners, the issue with the lecherous owner being forced to move the team by his wife wouldn't really exist.

I'm sure the NHL was more than happy to go to Dallas, though... just like it was more than happy to move the Jets to Phoenix.

The arena is the straw that has always been the one that breaks the camel's back.

Hartford- no suitable arena
Minneapolis- no suitable arena
Winnipeg- no suitable arena
Quebec City- no suitable arena

Dallas had a suitable arena.

It's really not a conspiracy. It's the cost, time and the uncertainty involved in building an arena.

 

[Steve Passless*]

Reunion Arena was worse than the Met Center.

 

[RECsGuy*]

Enjoy this tour of the Met (works best in Internet Explorer), recorded on April 4/10/93 ahead of the North Stars' 2nd to last ever home game.

 

[nickschultzfan]

Psst, the North Stars played in the Met Center from their inception in 1967. The Target Center was built/finished in 1990.

The Met Center had great ice, only held just under 16,000 (about the size of the Forum in L.A.), but had great sightlines and was pretty highly regarded around the league. The location, "out in the burbs" as it was, was along a major freeway, very convenient.



Indeed it was. The Target Center on its best day is a second-rate arena and inferior to the Met Center from day one. But, it's downtown. That's what they wanted....

Well, there was nothing by the Met Center back in those days. Just an arena in the middle of a parking lots.

Which means that there was zero reason to go to that arena unless you were seeing a hockey game. They did it really right with the Wild. Put the arena downtown St. Paul on the fun side of town. So much easier to get a group together to go to a hockey game because you end up going out and having a good time.

Too bad the North Stars couldn't hold on. Right when they left, the Mall of America was built right next door.