Houston and San Antonio

[Drake88]

Should the ECHL make a push for these markets?

Obviously it would require owners with interest in the ECHL, but considering the six of the cities and attendance histories, both seem like they could become flagship markets.

not to mention, considering the current movement trend, the ECHL could probably count on them being in for the long haul. Unlike the California teams or Colorado that were obviously geographically desirable.

if I’m commissioner of the ECHL, I’m doing everything in my power to get in to these markets.

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[Barclay Donaldson]

Should the ECHL make a push for these markets?

Obviously it would require owners with interest in the ECHL, but considering the six of the cities and attendance histories, both seem like they could become flagship markets.

not to mention, considering the current movement trend, the ECHL could probably count on them being in for the long haul. Unlike the California teams or Colorado that were obviously geographically desirable.

if I’m commissioner of the ECHL, I’m doing everything in my power to get in to these markets.

The three typical minor league hockey standards for granting teams is that there must be verifiable market interest, a high quality owner, and a high quality facility. All three need to be met in order for the team to be granted.

Houston has decent verifiable market interest considering they supported AHL so well for so long, but they don't have an arena unless Tilman Fertitta owns the team and puts it in his Toyota Center. Tilman Fertitta was very much "NHL or nothing" in everything he was saying and doing. Fertitta has had a year and change to add non-NHL hockey and hasn't done it. If he hasn't done it by now, he won't. They're out the window.

San Antonio has verifiable market interest and have had attendance around 6,000 for most of their existence. They have one option for an arena, and it's a good one for minor league hockey. The Rampage owners own it, and they own the Spurs as well. Ownership however is iffy. The only ones capable of doing running the team are the Spurs, mostly because there is no other ownership interest in the history of San Antonio hockey, and because of the arena ownership situation. If it were to happen there, it would have to be the Spurs group owning the team like they did with the Rampage. The group also just sold the Rampage, so there's a very good chance they're not interesting in owning a hockey team anymore.

 

[Martin Veillette]

You can add OKLAHOMA CITY!
With HOUSTON and SAN ANTONIO,
these 3 would be natural rivals with:
-Wichita
-Kansas City
-Tulsa
-Allen

 

[Cyclones Rock]

If the ECHL does pursue these markets, I'd think they'd be best served by letting them be dark for a few years. After years of watching AHL hockey, a lot of fans might look upon the ECHL as a booby prize. After a few years without hockey, that viewpoint could soften in many or disappear altogether.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

You can add OKLAHOMA CITY!
With HOUSTON and SAN ANTONIO,
these 3 would be natural rivals with:
-Wichita
-Kansas City
-Tulsa
-Allen

You can subtract Oklahoma City! Would be a natural rival, but there's more to having a team than geography...

The ECHL explored the market in 2017 and there weren't enough dates at either the Cox Convention Center and Chesapeake Energy Arena, the only two possible venues. And both venues have been vocal about having no interest in hosting hockey as well, so those dates aren't going to open up any time soon. They haven't in the three years since the market was looked into. It's discussed at length here: Berry Tramel: Could hockey return to Oklahoma City?

 

[nickp91]

This is a big bummer for the San Antonio hockey community San Antonio to the ECHL No city deserves to lose its team

 

[GindyDraws]

I WANT Houston to have an ECHL team, do not get me wrong.

It's just... both of them have very interesting problems.

Houston's only viable arena has an owner that wants hockey, but understands so little of it that anything that isn't the NHL isn't going to be acceptable for him, not even for the sake of filling dates. Meanwhile, San Antonio's marketplace has a stranglehold by Spurs Sports & Entertainment where anything that isn't operated by them (Missions nonwithstanding) is squashed almost immediately, coupled with what I assume is the dilapidation of Freeman Coliseum.

Combine those, and both of them seem non-entities.

 

[GindyDraws]

If the ECHL does pursue these markets, I'd think they'd be best served by letting them be dark for a few years. After years of watching AHL hockey, a lot of fans might look upon the ECHL as a booby prize. After a few years without hockey, that viewpoint could soften in many or disappear altogether.

Houston has had NO hockey whatsoever since 2013 aside from the NA3HL Sugar Land Imperials (if you called them viable with their miserable records), who moved to College Station after 2 years before folding. I think they've waited quite a bit.

 

[Martin Veillette]

You can subtract Oklahoma City! Would be a natural rival, but there's more to having a team than geography...

The ECHL explored the market in 2017 and there weren't enough dates at either the Cox Convention Center and Chesapeake Energy Arena, the only two possible venues. And both venues have been vocal about having no interest in hosting hockey as well, so those dates aren't going to open up any time soon. They haven't in the three years since the market was looked into. It's discussed at length here: Berry Tramel: Could hockey return to Oklahoma City?

Never Say Never!
Teams, Owners and Arenas
come and go

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Houston has had NO hockey whatsoever since 2013 aside from the NA3HL Sugar Land Imperials (if you called them viable with their miserable records), who moved to College Station after 2 years before folding. I think they've waited quite a bit.

This is the 7th season without the Aeros. How about that! Time flies.

In any case, an ECHL team in that market would face a ton of challenges, not the least being a viable arena. An ECHL team in a 3 team major league market wouldn't be very likely to succeed even if the arena situation was doable.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Never Say Never!
Teams, Owners and Arenas
come and go

I never said they never will. I said they won’t soon. It’s two arenas that will actually not want hockey there. That’s enough to cross them off the list, and then move on to realistic targets.

 

[Aero 75]

I don't see Fertitta settling for anything less than the NHL in Houston. If the ECHL wanted to come to Houston, someone would need to build a new arena. Not going to happen. Houston is still a one arena town, and that won't change anytime soon.

Concerning San Antonio, they seem to be a lot more hockey friendly than Houston. The Mayor commented that "But hockey - just like professional sports in general - is a long game in San Antonio. Our future is bright, and the foundation that the Rampage built in SA is not going away." What this means, who knows, but maybe something can be worked out to bring a team back to San Antonio. If Freeman Coliseum still has the capability to host hockey, as it did with the CHL Iguanas and IHL Dragons in the 1990's, then that could be an option. In any case, I feel San Antonio gets hockey back way before Houston.

Freeman Coliseum shines after makeover

 

[PCSPounder]

The Houston area has several school districts that build 5,000-seat arenas rather than have their schools play in their own gyms. Frankly, I have no understanding of why they do that, except in the odd cases of when one of those arenas attracts an NCAA D-1 conference championship (seen that) or even a pro team (seen an indoor football team in one of those).

Of course, if you tried to merge pro hockey and the basketball interests of 3-4 high schools, you'd have chaos. The bigger question is whether one could actually get a school or two interested in a hockey program. Then we could talk.

I'd rather have 5,000 seats in an ECHL arena than 17,000. Otherwise, you're going to get squeezed by the other moneymakers that larger arenas are attracting. Obviously, not easy to pull off in larger markets.

 

[BruinsFan37]

If the ECHL does pursue these markets, I'd think they'd be best served by letting them be dark for a few years. After years of watching AHL hockey, a lot of fans might look upon the ECHL as a booby prize. After a few years without hockey, that viewpoint could soften in many or disappear altogether.

This.

Nobody wants a repeat of Manchester, especially the ECHL.

 

[210]

This.

Nobody wants a repeat of Manchester, especially the ECHL.

The problem in Manchester was their owners pretended like nothing had changed, like it was simply business as usual in a different league.

 

[crimsonace]

Houston, San Antonio & OKC all have the same problem - every viable rink in town is owned or controlled by the NBA team, which doesn't have interest in owning a minor pro hockey team (SS&E just sold off its), even to fill 36 dates a year. They'd much rather have the G-League (in OKC's case, to fill the old Myriad) or not have to worry about leasing the building to a pro sports team that would compete with their core business.

All would be great ECHL markets and have been very good hockey markets in the past (Houston in the WHA/IHL/AHL and SA/OKC in the CHL), and would provide some neighbors for Allen & Tulsa.