OT: Holland's worst blunder

[Ricelund]

I always remember what Holland said when they exercised the option on Hasek's contract:

The goalie market in that offseason was super thin and a UFA Hasek interested in returning to the NHL would've gotten a ton of interest from other teams. The Avs likely would've been one of those teams since they had no real options other than to roll the dice on promoting Aebischer to starter. Locking up Hasek while Joseph was still in tow gave Holland a monopoly over that market that might've netted him a decent return for one of them had it not been for Joseph's last minute ankle surgery and Hasek being nowhere near ready for a return and thus absolute garbage.

At the end of the day, Holland was likely to take some bullets in any way that whole situation shook out... Had he went the opposite way, declined the option and Hasek signs elsewhere (especially with the Avs), he'd get crapped on for giving up that control. And the fans and media would've made it seem as though a Joseph trade to Boston or New York, or a Hasek trade to any team other than Colorado would've been as easy as doing it on NHL2003. Though it would've eventually been forgiven if Hasek likely has the same struggles with his new team. But if somehow Hasek delivers for whatever team and they have a better result in the playoffs than Detroit, the move would've been a bigger stain on Holland's resume than what actually happened.

That's fair.

 

[Gniwder]

I mean we got Hronek as part of the deal so it lessens the blow but moving down from being able to draft Chychrun stings on top of using the money to sign Nielsen

If you look at it as a complete sequence of events instead of just the Nielsen signing, then yeah it ranks pretty high up there. I just changed my vote, lol.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I mean we got Hronek as part of the deal so it lessens the blow but moving down from being able to draft Chychrun stings on top of using the money to sign Nielsen

What bothered me the most was that it was a move to acquire a player who:

1. Likely had no interest in the Red Wings to begin with
2. Would not have vaulted the team into a contender, and would have further prolonged the rebuild
3. Would have hamstrung the team with a cap hit not commensurate with his play (I also do not believe Stamkos would have taken the same contract to play here, or anywhere else outside of Tampa)

 

[Syckle78]

You know it's bad when we're 3 pages in and nobody even mentioned the Robert Lang trade yet. I'm not going to get on him too bad for that one though. He took a swing at a very good player whom I was a fan of of even before the trade. It's just that he didn't work out here and the draft pick turning into Green made it a brutal result.

 

[Henkka]

You know it's bad when we're 3 pages in and nobody even mentioned the Robert Lang trade yet. I'm not going to get on him too bad for that one though. He took a swing at a very good player whom I was a fan of of even before the trade. It's just that he didn't work out here and the draft pick turning into Green made it a brutal result.

Hmm, saying that Robert Lang didn't work here, when he scored 0.75 points per game in 159 games, and was +31, is kind of odd.

He was better than Franzen on his prime. And a Center, replacement for Fedorov mostly.

Trading a 1st for Franzen-level of player is nothing but normal trade.

It's meaningless who the picked player was, it could have been Andy Rogers or Chris Bourque too.

 

[Ricelund]

You know it's bad when we're 3 pages in and nobody even mentioned the Robert Lang trade yet. I'm not going to get on him too bad for that one though. He took a swing at a very good player whom I was a fan of of even before the trade. It's just that he didn't work out here and the draft pick turning into Green made it a brutal result.

I never thought the Lang trade was a bad move.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

This fan base is so petulant and broken.

 

[Syckle78]

This fan base is so petulant and broken.

Top notch irony,homeskillet.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Damn look at all those options.

 

[turkleton85]

he had a few pretty good trades at the end that hauled in a lot of good draft picks, like the tatar trade. But this abdelkader signing was a disaster the moment it was signed. There was never any hope it could be justified at any point, and seven years... justin could not have had more luck in his life - let datsuyk redirect a few pucks with your butt or head, bodycheck a few guys and score one or two important goals. We all said that there wasnt much skill and he was soo lucky holland was his GM

 

[Heaton]

Had he learned lessons from the way he built his team in 2005 while chopping the payroll in half, Holland might have been OK.
But he didn't.
He apparently thought that bargain-basement veterans was a one-time deal.
And that if they proved themselves, they ought to get paid.

So instead of finding a Patrick Eaves to replace Dan Cleary, he paid Dan Cleary $2.8M a year (which was a big deal at the time). And that deal forced the Hossa-Franzen decision, in my view.

But by 2013 or so, Holland just went senile. Every Cleary-level player was getting long, ridiculous contracts.
Helm.
Howard.
Ericsson.
Abdelkader.
Dekeyser.

I thought Holland did pretty well with the RNH contract.
The Tyson Barrie contract is very good.

The Nurse contract is high - but if he can maintain current production for 4-5 years - that's going to look fine.

The Zach Hyman deal looks like the Cleary deal.
The Kassian deal looks like the Cleary deal.
Mike Smith signed until his 41 at anything more than $1M seems batshit crazy to me.
Foegele seems overpaid

If I was a cup contender, I'd sign my core, including my RFAs, I'd look for elite players at decent prices or via trade... but I wouldn't waste my time signing depth UFAs on July 1.

Here's who's available right now in UFA:
C; Bozak, Staal,, Zajac
W: Ryan, Chiasson, Galchenyik, Jankowski, Scevior, Neal, Vesey Gusev, Anisimov, Dal Colle, Ennis,
D: Gustafsson, Vatanen, Demers, Johnson

Those guys would sign for next to nothing.
And be as good as better as that depth guy you paid so much for on July 1.

Don't forget the Duncan Keith trade with no salary retained on Chicago's end. I see at least 2 UFAs on that UFA list that would improve Edmonton, but they have no cap space.

 

[JustJokinenAround]

the whole 2017 draft

 

[Bench]

Don't forget the Duncan Keith trade with no salary retained on Chicago's end. I see at least 2 UFAs on that UFA list that would improve Edmonton, but they have no cap space.

Imagine how good 30-year-old Leddy (traded for 2nd round pick) would look in place of 38-year-old Keith (3rd round pick that could become 2nd rounders). Identical cap hits, but Keith is signed next year.

I know Keith brings that coveted veteran leadership, but Leddy won a Cup too and his legs are still great relative to Keith. Give me that speed and mobility with McDavid any day.

Holland filled the right spot, and in that regard it makes sense, he just picked the guy on the downside of his career instead.

 

[turkleton85]

Imagine how good 30-year-old Leddy (traded for 2nd round pick) would look in place of 38-year-old Keith (3rd round pick that could become 2nd rounders). Identical cap hits, but Keith is signed next year.

I know Keith brings that coveted veteran leadership, but Leddy won a Cup too and his legs are still great relative to Keith. Give me that speed and mobility with McDavid any day.

Holland filled the right spot, and in that regard it makes sense, he just picked the guy who should have retired already instead.

fixed it for you#never ending story

 

[Bench]

fixed it for you#never ending story

+ 50 Bastian Bux

 

[Gniwder]

Looking back over Holland's term here...the guy had some awful luck with guys getting injured.

Luck?

Weiss - Pre-existing wrist and groin injuries prior to contract
Helm - Pre-existing back injury
Quincey (second time around) - Pre-existing back injury that Holland knew about
Krupp - Pre-existing back injury
Cleary (last contract) - Worn out knees and what not
Ericsson - Hip injury before the contract extension, though he did not inform the team

I don't think it's all about luck. Holland and his staff were just bad at evaluating injuries and how much impact those injuries would have in terms of performance and missed games.

I'd say Vlad and Fischer situations was bad luck, but injuries happen in the NHL. Abby and Cole, well that's just the nature of the game. Nielsen is just old and has taken too many hits. We all knew that contract wasn't going to age well.

 

[Bench]

Jesus, never realized how terrible he was until you reflect on all of this.

It's really the sum of it all, isn't it?

There's no juicy Mike Milbury blunders here.

No single move on this list is a fatal blow, but when you total them together you end up with a bottom team that is crunched against the salary cap with zero elite talent in the prospect pool.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

It's really the sum of it all, isn't it?

There's no juicy Mike Milbury blunders here.

No single move on this list is a fatal blow, but when you total them together you end up with a bottom team that is crunched against the salary cap with zero elite talent in the prospect pool.

Death by a thousand cuts.

 

[avssuc]

Don't forget the Duncan Keith trade with no salary retained on Chicago's end. I see at least 2 UFAs on that UFA list that would improve Edmonton, but they have no cap space.

I still can't figure that trade out. Is Holland really that bad? Is there anyone that liked that trade?

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Abdelpaper$$$$

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Imagine how good 30-year-old Leddy (traded for 2nd round pick) would look in place of 38-year-old Keith (3rd round pick that could become 2nd rounders). Identical cap hits, but Keith is signed next year.

I know Keith brings that coveted veteran leadership, but Leddy won a Cup too and his legs are still great relative to Keith. Give me that speed and mobility with McDavid any day.

Holland filled the right spot, and in that regard it makes sense, he just picked the guy on the downside of his career instead.

Oh man. That is pretty laughably bad in comparison. Imagine how bad Yzerman would have been roasted for trading assets for Keith.

 

[Gniwder]

the whole 2017 draft

2105 was a winner too, lol.

Quite frankly, it's easier to list the few good drafts than list all of the bad ones.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

What kind of fan base ignores multiple Stanley Cups, drafting multiple hall of fame level players and whines about a meaningless contract years after the GM is gone?
How about a thread of Yzerman blunders? This is the guy who gave Ryan Callahan a kazzillion dollars and term likely costing his team multiple cup wins. (Yzerman paid Callahan nearly as much as Holland paid Datsyuk LOL!!!) The guy picked Brett Connoly 3rd overall. Of course Yzerman didn't make these blunders when his Datsyuk, Lidstrom and Zetterberg were in the twilights of their careers. He did them at the expense of a team that should have been winning cups like they did after he was gone.
It's hilarious that people bash Holland and his overwhelming success while celebrating Yzerman constructing an embarrassing bottom feeder.

 

[Bench]

I still can't figure that trade out. Is Holland really that bad? Is there anyone that liked that trade?

People who think Edmonton didn't have leadership feel it's a big win for them and that Keith will help set the tone for them in the playoffs. And I do think Keith is a net positive for them, all things considered. But that doesn't mean Holland still used $5.5 million in cap space this year and next to it's best potential. I really expected 50% salary retention on that deal and then maybe Edmonton could squeeze in another significant upgrade (well, assuming they didn't overpay Hyman, too).

Imagine you're RNH waking up realizing you took a long-term discount only to have that cap savings used to pay Zach Hyman more than you.

 

[Bench]

What kind of fan base ignores multiple Stanley Cups, drafting multiple hall of fame level players and whines about a meaningless contract years after the GM is gone?
How about a thread of Yzerman blunders? This is the guy who gave Ryan Callahan a kazzillion dollars and term likely costing his team multiple cup wins. (Yzerman paid Callahan nearly as much as Holland paid Datsyuk LOL!!!) The guy picked Brett Connoly 3rd overall. Of course Yzerman didn't make these blunders when his Datsyuk, Lidstrom and Zetterberg were in the twilights of their careers. He did them at the expense of a team that should have been winning cups like they did after he was gone.
It's hilarious that people bash Holland and his overwhelming success while celebrating Yzerman constructing an embarrassing bottom feeder.

Alright dude, congrats, you're the first to hit the ignore list in my decade long history on HFBoards. Pour one out, you've accomplished the impossible.

You're so obviously not a real fan interested in having a good talk with others and just here to derail literally every thread you poke your head in with these sensational takes you know will force people to hit reply and engage you until everyone gives up because you're not actually interested in honest discourse. Later, nerd.