I think there was word they could've gotten to 9 or 10 but knew Seider would be gone.
Holland/Wright the Worst Drafting Duo of the Century?
- Thread starter FriendlyGhost92
- Start date
GMR
Registered User
Holland is a fraud. He joined the Wings when they were in the middle of a dynasty and were the league's most talented team. All the top free agents wanted to play there. He also had Devellano, Bowman, and Jim Nill around.
He lucked out on the Datsyuk/Zetterberg picks in the late 90's. Nobody knew how good those two would become until many years later.
His biggest accomplishment would be signings and trades to transition from the Yzerman/Shanahan/Fedorov era to the 2007-2010 Wings.
After 2010, he made terrible trades, signings, and draft picks, to keep that playoff streak going. By then, they weren't real contenders anymore and were mortgaging picks for short-term playoff appearances. That set the franchise back many years.
His HOF induction is overblown.
He lucked out on the Datsyuk/Zetterberg picks in the late 90's. Nobody knew how good those two would become until many years later.
His biggest accomplishment would be signings and trades to transition from the Yzerman/Shanahan/Fedorov era to the 2007-2010 Wings.
After 2010, he made terrible trades, signings, and draft picks, to keep that playoff streak going. By then, they weren't real contenders anymore and were mortgaging picks for short-term playoff appearances. That set the franchise back many years.
His HOF induction is overblown.
Other than the Zadina miss, that Detroit drafting is the definition of average. There are far, far worse teams than this.
ricky0034
Registered User
- Jun 8, 2010
- 15,041
- 7,250
you missed over 4 thousand NHL games though
none of them are great players or anything but that includes 2 guys you didn't mention that played 500+ NHL games in Merrill/Kerfoot(plus Miles Wood at 459, and all three of those guys are still playing racking up more games) and a couple more more that played a few hundred
You’re right. I forgot Wood. Honestly didn’t even realize Merrill was still in the NHL, I’m honestly impressed. Kerfoot I forgot for obvious reasons.
Still, nothing even close to Larkin or Hronek in the range.
It is kind of ironic though, at one point, Lou and Holland were pretty much unanimously seen as the best GMs in hockey and part of their bread and butter was being able to find these gems outside of the first round, or not even in the draft.
ricky0034
Registered User
- Jun 8, 2010
- 15,041
- 7,250
yeah you can't just do what everyone else is doing to do that you need to find things others aren't doing and that never lasts forever and it's tough to find new things other teams aren't doing when they go away
i'm not nearly as familiar with the Devils as the Wings but the Wings draft success decades ago was mostly built on guys that were guys that other teams were very much aware of but unwilling to draft(everyone knew who Sergei Fedorov was for example, it was just a matter of him actually coming over) and guys that weren't really even scouted by other teams due to where they played and teams not having the resources to scout everyone(for example that famous Datsyuk story about how Wings scout Hakan Andersson was the only scout to see him play and he wasn't even there to see him, and how some other teams scout was also supposed to make the trip but their flight got cancelled)
After 2018 when Winnipeg lost to Vegas in the WCF I was convinced they were about to go on a run for a few years and have a chance to win a cup. I would say "Oh Holland and Wright are following the Winnipeg model of trying to be a big hard team to play against with some skill" what an idiot I was.
I could be wrong, but I think just about every team would have at least one contributing player in 10 years outside the first two rounds.
If you remove Larkin and Hronek from this, the list is absolutely rancid.
RogerRoger
Registered User
- Jul 23, 2013
- 5,126
- 2,662
That's why I think Tallon's 2010 draft might have been the worst draft value in decades. In the first 2 rounds, he got; 1892 games, 193 goals, 317 assists, 510 points when picking, literally, the next guy he would have got; 3942 games, 922 goals, 1555 assists, 2477 points.
Voight
#winning
Bank Shot
Registered User
- Jan 18, 2006
- 11,398
- 7,001
Rangers and Jets don't look all that great in the 2014-23 span either. Rangers hit on Igor in 2014, but they have whiffed on a tonne of high picks. Andersson, Kratsov, Kakko, Lafrienierre.
Chicago was dismal over the same period. Oilers of course. Penguins haven't got anything out of the draft over this period either.
I feel like Red Wings fans try a little too hard to crap on Holland in order to boost Yzerman's lack of success.
Chicago was dismal over the same period. Oilers of course. Penguins haven't got anything out of the draft over this period either.
I feel like Red Wings fans try a little too hard to crap on Holland in order to boost Yzerman's lack of success.
Larkin and Hronek were two of the very best picks in their entire drafts and that kind of outweighs whether or not they found a bottom-6 forward in the 4th round in there somewhere.
Bank Shot
Registered User
- Jan 18, 2006
- 11,398
- 7,001
Dallas had a generational draft for sure.
Maybe the best draft in the last 20-25 years.
Not sure why you would use that as a standard for good drafting.
Its kind of a "If you're not first, you're last" statement.
The thread is lacking context. What would be league average in terms of games and PPG from team draftees during this period. I have no way of knowing how bad this is.
Bruins4Lifer
Registered User
The Athletic did an analysis/ranking a few months ago on how each team drafted from 2007-2018, so it doesn't cover the Holland/Wright years in Edmonton, but their analysis/ranking of the Detroit years 2015 to 2018 aligns pretty much with what the OP is saying: they were terrible at drafting.
https://theathletic.com/5084335/2023/11/23/nhl-draft-rankings-performance-picks/
My post was specifically referring to the Detroit drafts.
And yes, getting two impact players plus another couple solid NHLers in a 5-year span is pretty average from where they drafted.
Dallas' 'best draft of any team in the last 10 years' isn't really relevant to a discussion of average drafting.
The Athletic did an analysis/ranking a few months ago on how each team drafted from 2007-2018, so it doesn't cover the Holland/Wright years in Edmonton, but their analysis/ranking of the Detroit years 2015 to 2018 aligns pretty much with what the OP is saying: they were terrible at drafting.
Ranking the NHL’s best and worst drafting teams since 2007: 31-17
For me, while it does does pass the eye test, I have a hard time taking it seriously just because it's from Dom's god-awful model.
Same model says Maatta, Ghost, and Petry have been significantly more valuable for Detroit than Seider this year, which is just grade A bullshit.
Dallas' overall drafting over the last 6-7 years has been pretty incredible even if you remove 2017 from the draft entirely.
TLEH
Pronounced T-Lay
OgeeOgelthorpe
Baldina
- Feb 29, 2020
- 17,170
- 18,270
Even with Larkin and Hronek it's awful.
1 top line forward. 1 top 3 defenseman. 1 top 9 C/W. 1 bottom line C. 1 middle 6 W that still isn't a regular yet.
3 outright 1st round busts (15, 16, 18). Numerous 2nd round busts. Nobody of note in later rounds.
That's bad by any standard.
RedHawkDown
still trying to trust the yzerplan
At least as far as the Oiler picks go, there were higher touted players still available in each circumstance, but Wright seemed to like to "smartest guy in the room" it and dial in on one random player, everything else be damned. My mother taking a draft guide and picking the highest player left on the board at the time would have come away with better players.
The only one I don't really fault them for was Holloway because the draft fell off a cliff after #13 that year. Broberg and Borgault were telegraphed bad picks.
The only one I don't really fault them for was Holloway because the draft fell off a cliff after #13 that year. Broberg and Borgault were telegraphed bad picks.
I think at this point Zadina can be considered a bust. He's pretty much around for his draft pedigree at this point, and somebody hoping he finally pulls it together.
CantHaveTkachev
Legends
Ad
Upcoming events
-
Game 4 Florida Panthers @ Tampa Bay Lightning - Florida leads series 3-0Wagers: 10Staked: $6,411.00Event closes- Updated:
-
-
-
-
