HOH Top 100 List & Voting Record: amnesiac

[FissionFire]

List 8R

Rank | Player | Pos
1| Wayne Gretzky |C
2| Bobby Orr |D
3| Mario Lemieux |C
4| Gordie Howe |RW
5| Jean Beliveau |C
6| Bobby Hull |LW
7| Maurice Richard |RW
8| Doug Harvey |D
9| Eddie Shore |D
10| Patrick Roy |G
11| Mark Messier |C
12| Jaromir Jagr |RW
13| Guy Lafleur |RW
14| Ray Bourque |D
15| Phil Esposito |C
16| Joe Sakic |C
17| Mike Bossy |RW
18| Terry Sawchuk |G
19| Jacques Plante |G
20| Stan Mikita |C
21| Howie Morenz |C
22| Steve Yzerman |C
23| Marcel Dionne |C
24| Nicklas Lidstrom |D
25| Martin Brodeur |G
26| Glenn Hall |G
27| Denis Potvin |D
28| Dominik Hasek |G
29| Red Kelly |D
30| Ted Lindsay |LW
31| Nels Stewart |C
32| Milt Schmidt |C
33| Bobby Clarke |C
34| Cyclone Taylor |C
35| Cy Denneny |LW
36| Bill Cowley |C
37| Peter Forsberg |C
38| Larry Robinson |D
39| Syl Apps, Sr. |C
40| Bill Cook |RW
41| Ken Dryden |G
42| Vladislav Tretiak |G
43| Brett Hull |RW
44| Valeri Kharlamov |LW
45| Dit Clapper |RW/D
46| Chris Chelios |D
47| Frank Mahovlich |LW
48| Andy Bathgate |RW
49| Newsy Lalonde |C
50| Joe Malone |C
51| Georges Vezina |G
52| Max Bentley |C
53| Bryan Trottier |C
54| Paul Coffey |D
55| Bernard Geoffrion |RW
56| Charlie Conacher |RW
57| Scott Stevens |D
58| Tim Horton |D
59| Johnny Bower |G
60| George Hainsworth |G
61| Henri Richard |C
62| Ron Francis |C
63| Jari Kurri |RW
64| Alex Delvecchio |C/LW
65| Norm Ullman |C
66| Johnny Bucyk |LW
67| Peter Stastny |C
68| Bill Durnan |G
69| Turk Broda |G
70| Bernie Parent |G
71| Tony Esposito |G
72| Dickie Moore |LW
73| Toe Blake |LW
74| Sergei Fedorov |C
75| Rod Langway |D
76| Brad Park |D
77| Elmer Lach |C
78| Ted Kennedy |C
79| Anatoli Firsov |LW
80| Jean Ratelle |C
81| Al MacInnis |D
82| Brian Leetch |D
83| Frank Boucher |C
84| Aurel Joliat |LW
85| Pierre Pilote |D
86| Serge Savard |D
87| Viacheslav Fetisov |D
88| Pavel Bure |RW
89| Eric Lindros |C
90| Doug Golmour |C
91| Gilbert Perreault |C
92| Teemu Selanne |RW
93| Chris Pronger |D
94| Scott Niedermayer |D
95| Bob Gainey |LW
96| Adam Oates |C
97| Dale Hawerchuk |C
98| Denis Savard |C
99| Luc Robitaille |LW
100| Vsevolod Bobrov |RW
101| Mark Howe |LW/D
102| Billy Smith |G
103| Grant Fuhr |G
104| Ed Belfour |G
105| Yvan Cournoyer |RW
106| Brendan Shanahan |LW
107| Boris Mikhailov |RW
108| Alexander Maltsev |LW
109| Jiri Holecek |G
110| Pat LaFontaine |C
111| Mats Sundin |C
112| Mike Modano |C
113| Mike Gartner |RW
114| Larry Murphy |D
115| Valeri Vasiliev |D
116| Cam Neely |RW
117| Michel Goulet |LW
118| Glenn Anderson |RW
119| Joe Thornton |C
120| Jarome Iginla |RW

Players from the Top 100 not to appear on this list:
King Clancy (T-53)
Earl Seibert (61)
Clint Benedict (62)
Sprague Cleghorn (T-69)
Frank Brimsek (71)
Sergei Makarov (77)
Bill Gadsby (83)
Borje Salming (T-85)
Dave Keon (T-87)
Busher Jackson (89)
Doug Bentley (90)
Charlie Gardiner (91)
Sid Abel (93)
Frank Nighbor (95)

Players ranked highest overall on this list:
Mark Messier (11)
Joe Sakic (16)
Marcel Dionne (23)
Nels Stewart (31)
Bill Cowley (36)
Alex Delvecchio (64)

Players ranked lowest overall on this list:
Bryan Trottier (53)
Brad Park (76)
Boris Mikhailov (107)
Valeri Vasiliev (115)

Players unique to this list:
NONE

Voting By Round

Round | Rank 1 | Rank 2 | Rank 3 | Rank 4 | Rank 5 | Rank 6 | Rank 7
1|Wayne Gretzky|Bobby Orr|Mario Lemieux|Gordie Howe
2|Jean Beliveau|Bobby Hull|Maurice Richard|Eddie Shore|Doug Harvey|Patrick Roy
3|Patrick Roy|Mark Messier|Phil Esposito|Guy Lafleur|Ray Bourque
4|Patrick Roy|Mark Messier|Phil Esposito|Mike Bossy|Terry Sawchuk
5|Mark Messier|Jaromir Jagr|Mike Bossy|Steve Yzerman|Nicklas Lidstrom
6|Joe Sakic|Mike Bossy|Steve Yzerman|Nicklas Lidstrom|Larry Robinson
7|Joe Sakic|Steve Yzerman|Martin Brodeur|Milt Schmidt|Larry Robinson
8|Steve Yzerman|Syl Apps, Sr.|Ken Dryden|Chris Chelios|Frank Mahovlich
9|Marcel Dionne|Cyclone Taylor|Charlie Conacher|Bill Cook|Chris Chelios
10|Marcel Dionne|Brett Hull|Max Bentley|Frank Mahovlich|Paul Coffey
11|Vladislav Tretiak|Brett Hull|Dickie Moore|Dit Clapper|Pierre Pilote
12|Andy Bathgate|Cy Denneny|Brett Hull|Tim Horton|Jari Kurri
13|Peter Forsberg|Earl Seibert|Cy Denneny|Nels Stewart|Johnny Bower|Elmer Lach|Clint Benedict
14|Peter Forsberg|Johnny Bower|George Hainsworth|Scott Stevens|Peter Stastny|Elmer Lach|Bernie Parent
15|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
16|-|-|-|-|-|-
17|Scott Stevens|Ron Francis|Busher Jackson|Alex Delvecchio|Norm Ullman|Serge Savard
18|Alex Delvecchio|Norm Ullman|Eric Lindros|Bob Gainey|Scott Niedermayer|Serge Savard

Click to read more...

 

[Pwnasaurus]

Wow, a list that had Messier higher than I did. We must not be Vancouver fans. Sakic at 16 should get some attention.

 

[God Bless Canada]

Some glaring omissions from the blue-line: Clancy, Seibert, Cleghorn and Gadsby were all top 20 defencemen ever, IMO. Salming should definitely be in a top 120 list. No way that Larry Murphy should be ahead of these guys. (And I'm a Murphy apologist at times).

Definitely some brushing up is needed for the pre-expansion players, but it's a much better effort than his first list. Once you got into the final 30, it was very top-heavy on active and post-WHA merger players.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who has a high opinion of Ratelle.

Is it me, or was George Vezina's rating all over the place for this thing?

 

[FissionFire]

My initial thoughts on this list:

1. Very high opinion of forwards compared to other positions. This really stands out when you see that there were 7 forwards on this list rated higher than anyone else did.

2. Very tough on goalies with only 4 in the top 25 and 3 from the final Top 100 not even listed.

3. Defensemen were all over the place. Quite a few from the Top 100 not even listed, but that appears to be a product of not having tons of knowledge of the older NHL defenseman. The voting record seems to reflect that his opinions changed alot as he learned more about them.

4. A pretty large number of modern players, especially at the bottom of the list.

All-in-all a very solid list with some controversial rankings. Based on his voting record I'd bet the bottom of the list will be reworked alot before the update. I love some of the out-the-box thinking as well for ranking some of the players. Definitely sparks some debate.

 

[lextune]

Messier and Jagr ahead of Bourque....?

 

[MXD]

Messier and Jagr ahead of Bourque....?

While I agreee that Messier and Jagr should be behind Bourque, there was certainly a more polite way to bring this up.

 

[lextune]

Doesn't seem impolite. It is just a question.

 

[MXD]

Doesn't seem impolite. It is just a question.

Okay. I just found a bit wierd that both your questions concerned Bourque, while there were other rankings that seems way more strange at first than Bourque. Such as Bobrov ahead of Kharlamov.

 

[FissionFire]

Okay. I just found a bit wierd that both your questions concerned Bourque, while there were other rankings that seems way more strange at first than Bourque. Such as Bobrov ahead of Kharlamov.

Well, he is a Bruins fan so it's only natural that he'd have more of a focus on Bourque.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

There's definitely a modern bias, but in comparison with each other, none of those modern rankings seem to be too bad, so probably just a product of simply having more knowledge of your own time period.

Surprised that Anderson wasn't unique to your list. I'm a huge Anderson supporter, so in a way it was nice to see him get some props, even though I don't think he's worthy of top-120 status.

 

[amnesiac*]

Thanks for the comments, guys.

As for Messier, Jagr, and Bourque....

I felt Messier deserved praise for his longetivity and leadership more than anything, as well as his 6 Cups during the modern era (2 without Gretzky). Playing into your 40s (especially as a forward) only proves that youre a great athlete overall, especially in such a tough physical sport such as hockey. If Mess wasnt good enough to play for as long as he did no team wouldve wanted him. Longevity = Greatness in my book.

Jagr was more based for his 5 Art Rosses. By far the best hockey player of the late 90s-early 2000s era, which is more than worthy of making it in the top 20. Add: 2 Cups, 1 Hart (5 time finalist!), 3 Pearsons...... Lacked heart at times in the playoffs, but still dominated the league in one of the toughest scoring eras of all-time. Imagine if he was born 10 years earlier.

Bourque is obviously a legend, 5 Norrises is unbelievable, but still failed to win a Cup with Boston. In my mind you could interchange any of these 3 without argument.

I also always felt goalies and Dmen were more subjective talent-wise than forwards overall. Goalies can always look better because of the D in front of them, and defensemen can always look better due to defensive systems. This is why I generally ranked forwards higher than Dmen and goalies (hence why was Bourque lower). Not to take away anything from the Orrs and Shores of the NHL, but the best "athlete" in hockey is the league's top centreman (and in some case wingers), in my opinion.

 

[amnesiac*]

Also just wanted to add that I loved being part of this.

Hockey is one of my biggest passions and I learned a lot from you guys, especially about the old-timers well before my time. Really enjoyed it!

 

[Koivu84*]

This is a great list.

After looking at all the horrible lists, it's nice too see someone who finally understands hockey.

 

[FissionFire]

This is a great list.

After looking at all the horrible lists, it's nice too see someone who finally understands hockey.

Oh man amnesiac, you've just been given the kiss of death.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Good to see a Marcel Dionne backer!