Hockey at the Palace of Auburn Hills

[Drake88]

Could a minor league team work at the palace again?

FACILITIES- The palace is still very nice with spacious concourses and lots of seating. The last 5 years have been awful attendance wise for the pistons, Most nights they are struggling to bring in 10K. It's possible they could be looking to bring in some extra revenue. I am not really sure if it still has the proper equipment for hockey anymore, but it did host college hockey in 2008.

COMPETITION- Times have changed in the minor league landscape. There are now only two teams in Michigan, and both on the west side (Griffins and K-Wings). It is however tough to say if the red wings would be in support of such a move, which if they weren't would be devastating.

LEAGUE- The ECHL or the AHL would be the only real logical leagues based on location and arena size. Both would have potential risks.

If they were to join the ECHL, they would have to go in the crowded north division which could be a problem for the league. The palace is also considerably larger than most other ECHL rinks and unless they were given a great lease i find it hard to imagine they would be able to pay long term for the carnivorous facility.

Joining the AHL would probably make more sense. Although Grand Rapids could be threatened by their proximity to the wings.

any thoughts?

Click to read more...

 

[JB51Hockey]

Well, AHL teams not affiliated with the NHL team is very close to where the AHL team is a bit common (Abbotsford, Chicago Wolves) it could work. Orlando Solar Bears play where the Magic NBA team does so you can't say that arena size is a factor. I think it could only work for ECHL and would be the next possible location for a team if the North Division loses a team.

 

[MotorCityBoy]

Ain't gonna happen. It's highly doubtful Palace Sports and Entertainment want to own any kind of hockey team, as PSE would not consider leasing the building to another owner. The building is a huge money maker as is. Plus, a minor league team with no affiliation with the Wings would garner little to no interest among fans here. To boot, any team WITH a Wings affiliation would NEVER play in the Palace.

 

[needzmoarcleary]

When the Palace had the vipers back in the day I got to play there a number of times and the ice was beyond horrible. No thanks.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

The chance for the Jackals to finally relocate!

 

[lennysundahl]

Ain't gonna happen. It's highly doubtful Palace Sports and Entertainment want to own any kind of hockey team, as PSE would not consider leasing the building to another owner. The building is a huge money maker as is. Plus, a minor league team with no affiliation with the Wings would garner little to no interest among fans here. To boot, any team WITH a Wings affiliation would NEVER play in the Palace.

Well first off, the Vipers had no affiliation with the Wings--or anyone, until they bought the Lightning--and still drew well. Even after comps they were one of the top draws in the IHL at their height.

Also, I don't think there's anywhere near the kind of animosity between Gores and the Ilitches as there was between Davidson and the Ilitches. So maybe a partnership could happen, although I think they're satisfied with what they've got going with Grand Rapids and Toledo. Ultimately I think it boils down to "do they want to own a hockey team?" I don't see it happening, but then stranger things have happened...

 

[Alpine]

MOD
Isn't Plymouth in Metro Detroit? If Compuware has invested so much into the Whalers why have they shied away from investing in bringing Canes affiliates into the Detroit area?
Disd't the Whalers play at Auburn Hills whilst the Compuware Arena was being built?
May I add that the Windsor Spitfires are just the other side of the river. Seems like lotsa hockey in the market these days?

 

[lennysundahl]

MOD
Isn't Plymouth in Metro Detroit? If Compuware has invested so much into the Whalers why have they shied away from investing in bringing Canes affiliates into the Detroit area?
Disd't the Whalers play at Auburn Hills whilst the Compuware Arena was being built?
May I add that the Windsor Spitfires are just the other side of the river. Seems like lotsa hockey in the market these days?

There's always been a lot of hockey in the area--Hockeytown isn't just a marketing gimmick. I actually remember before Karmanos moved the Whalers to Raleigh one of the local papers suggested that they could wind up at the Palace, which would have been quite interesting (especially in the last five years... )

 

[JB51Hockey]

MOD
Isn't Plymouth in Metro Detroit? If Compuware has invested so much into the Whalers why have they shied away from investing in bringing Canes affiliates into the Detroit area?
Disd't the Whalers play at Auburn Hills whilst the Compuware Arena was being built?
May I add that the Windsor Spitfires are just the other side of the river. Seems like lotsa hockey in the market these days?

Stupid response MOD.
Isn't Guelph in Metro Toronto? What about Barrie, Kitchener, Brampton, Mississauga, Oshawa, St. Catharines? May I add the dozens of other junior teams plus the Toronto Maple Leafs? Seems like lotsa hockey in the market these days?

 

[Drake88]

Figured this would be fun to revisit, but with a twist. I know this question may surprise some people and although it may seem crazy, hear me out.

What if The Palace of Auburn Hills had an SPHL team?

A LOT has changed since i brought this topic up in 2013, including the owners of the building and the alignment of minor league hockey. The Pistons now play down town and the Davidson's are no longer in charge of the Palace. In addition, Oakland University is also in talks to purchase the building. Why the SPHL? The AHL is full and a AAA team that close to the Red Wings but not affiliated with the Red Wings is a no go. The ECHL could be a possibility given the arena, but their priorities seem to be out west. That brings us to the SPHL. While obviously being a southern based league, they have made it clear in recent years they want a northern footprint (Peoria, Evansville, Quad City, Bloomington). Why not try and go big to solidify that footprint? The arena has great luxury box placement right in the lower bowl and the upper bowl could even be closed for the games to create a more intimate atmosphere. Considering the team would not compete directly with the Red Wings like the Vipers did, maybe there would even be an opportunity for a cross promotional relationship. I would be confident that a team at the Palace could achieve the 2500 to 3000+ fans a night needed to sustain an SPHL team. In fact, I would not be shocked if the team experienced even more success at the gate considering Oakland County has routinely been one of the highest income counties in the country. Each minor league has teams that perform exceedingly well or have an greatvenue and serve as models for other league franchises. Think Carolina/Elmira in the FHL, Huntsville/Peoria in the SPHL, Fort Wayne/Toledo in the ECHL and Hershey/San Diego/Grand Rapids in the AHL. Could Metro Detroit and the Palace work at the SPHL level?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Figured this would be fun to revisit, but with a twist. I know this question may surprise some people and although it may seem crazy, hear me out.

What if The Palace of Auburn Hills had an SPHL team?

A LOT has changed since i brought this topic up in 2013, including the owners of the building and the alignment of minor league hockey. The Pistons now play down town and the Davidson's are no longer in charge of the Palace. In addition, Oakland University is also in talks to purchase the building. Why the SPHL? The AHL is full and a AAA team that close to the Red Wings but not affiliated with the Red Wings is a no go. The ECHL could be a possibility given the arena, but their priorities seem to be out west. That brings us to the SPHL. While obviously being a southern based league, they have made it clear in recent years they want a northern footprint (Peoria, Evansville, Quad City, Bloomington). Why not try and go big to solidify that footprint? The arena has great luxury box placement right in the lower bowl and the upper bowl could even be closed for the games to create a more intimate atmosphere. Considering the team would not compete directly with the Red Wings like the Vipers did, maybe there would even be an opportunity for a cross promotional relationship. I would be confident that a team at the Palace could achieve the 2500 to 3000+ fans a night needed to sustain an SPHL team. In fact, I would not be shocked if the team experienced even more success at the gate considering Oakland County has routinely been one of the highest income counties in the country. Each minor league has teams that perform exceedingly well or have an greatvenue and serve as models for other league franchises. Think Carolina/Elmira in the FHL, Huntsville/Peoria in the SPHL, Fort Wayne/Toledo in the ECHL and Hershey/San Diego/Grand Rapids in the AHL. Could Metro Detroit and the Palace work at the SPHL level?

nope.....

who's the owner

Toledo has fit in their footprint quite well, Drake

 

[Drake88]

nope.....

who's the owner

Toledo has fit in their footprint quite well, Drake

Point taken, obviously there has to be an owner that is willing to possibly lose money over an extended period of time for anything to happen. I was thinking more along the lines of if the arena made sense in the SPHL and had not yet considered ownership. With the SPHL looking north recently, I figured with that arena, a possible franchise could be a nice addition for the SPHL and may actually work in that community specifically. Now finding owners is a different story!

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Figured this would be fun to revisit, but with a twist. I know this question may surprise some people and although it may seem crazy, hear me out.

What if The Palace of Auburn Hills had an SPHL team?

A LOT has changed since i brought this topic up in 2013, including the owners of the building and the alignment of minor league hockey. The Pistons now play down town and the Davidson's are no longer in charge of the Palace. In addition, Oakland University is also in talks to purchase the building. Why the SPHL? The AHL is full and a AAA team that close to the Red Wings but not affiliated with the Red Wings is a no go. The ECHL could be a possibility given the arena, but their priorities seem to be out west. That brings us to the SPHL. While obviously being a southern based league, they have made it clear in recent years they want a northern footprint (Peoria, Evansville, Quad City, Bloomington). Why not try and go big to solidify that footprint? The arena has great luxury box placement right in the lower bowl and the upper bowl could even be closed for the games to create a more intimate atmosphere. Considering the team would not compete directly with the Red Wings like the Vipers did, maybe there would even be an opportunity for a cross promotional relationship. I would be confident that a team at the Palace could achieve the 2500 to 3000+ fans a night needed to sustain an SPHL team. In fact, I would not be shocked if the team experienced even more success at the gate considering Oakland County has routinely been one of the highest income counties in the country. Each minor league has teams that perform exceedingly well or have an greatvenue and serve as models for other league franchises. Think Carolina/Elmira in the FHL, Huntsville/Peoria in the SPHL, Fort Wayne/Toledo in the ECHL and Hershey/San Diego/Grand Rapids in the AHL. Could Metro Detroit and the Palace work at the SPHL level?

It wouldn’t work. Travel costs would kill the team. It works for teams at the Fed level because the budgets are all under $500,000. With SP budgets starting at $1,750,000, there’s no way it would work. For it to even be feasible you would need to add in 10 northern teams to the SP.

 

[Drake88]

It wouldn’t work. Travel costs would kill the team. It works for teams at the Fed level because the budgets are all under $500,000. With SP budgets starting at $1,750,000, there’s no way it would work. For it to even be feasible you would need to add in 10 northern teams to the SP.

Thanks for the info! I was wondering what the annual operating costs were for teams at the SPHL level. Personally, I think a northern division of the SPHL would be well received considering the SPHL seems to embrace their roll as a single A league and really does not try to compete with AA leagues like the IHL2 and UHL did. Although I understand the hesitance to leave their current footprint, I would love to see two eight team divisions. I know this is unrealistic and obviously these teams would cities would need owners, but it is minor league hockey and crazier things have happened. I would love to see an SPHL "North" that looked something like this. Just a little bit of schedule crossover in the regular season and then north and south meet in the finals. I know some of these markets have had checkered pasts with hockey, but just a concept!

North Version 1: Peoria, Quad City, Evansville, Detroit, Roanoke, Richmond, Trenton, Elmira
North Version 2: Peoria, Quad City, Evansville, Detroit, Bloomington, Chicago, Trenton, Elmira
Other Possible Markets: St. Charles, Flint, Port Huron, Muskegon, Kalamazoo

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Thanks for the info! I was wondering what the annual operating costs were for teams at the SPHL level. Personally, I think a northern division of the SPHL would be well received considering the SPHL seems to embrace their roll as a single A league and really does not try to compete with AA leagues like the IHL2 and UHL did. Although I understand the hesitance to leave their current footprint, I would love to see two eight team divisions. I know this is unrealistic and obviously these teams would cities would need owners, but it is minor league hockey and crazier things have happened. I would love to see an SPHL "North" that looked something like this. Just a little bit of schedule crossover in the regular season and then north and south meet in the finals. I know some of these markets have had checkered pasts with hockey, but just a concept!

North Version 1: Peoria, Quad City, Evansville, Detroit, Roanoke, Richmond, Trenton, Elmira
North Version 2: Peoria, Quad City, Evansville, Detroit, Bloomington, Chicago, Trenton, Elmira
Other Possible Markets: St. Charles, Flint, Port Huron, Muskegon, Kalamazoo

Kalamazoo isn't leaving the ECHL

 

[Drake88]

Kalamazoo isn't leaving the ECHL

I truly hope they don't. Just included them as another possible option to think about, but as a long time ECHL and minor league fan I want to see Kalamazoo stay at the highest level possible. They are one of the more classic and historic minor league franchises and I would hate to see them in a lower league.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I truly hope they don't. Just included them as another possible option to think about, but as a long time ECHL and minor league fan I want to see Kalamazoo stay at the highest level possible. They are one of the more classic and historic minor league franchises and I would hate to see them in a lower league.

Richmond has no arena, either, fyi..... Port Huron and Elmira are still smarting from the Afr debacle of the mid 90s, that's why it took a while to get the Enforcers reestablished in First Arena, that's also why Louisville is no longer considered a market because of the scenario I MENTIONED as well

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Thanks for the info! I was wondering what the annual operating costs were for teams at the SPHL level. Personally, I think a northern division of the SPHL would be well received considering the SPHL seems to embrace their roll as a single A league and really does not try to compete with AA leagues like the IHL2 and UHL did. Although I understand the hesitance to leave their current footprint, I would love to see two eight team divisions. I know this is unrealistic and obviously these teams would cities would need owners, but it is minor league hockey and crazier things have happened. I would love to see an SPHL "North" that looked something like this. Just a little bit of schedule crossover in the regular season and then north and south meet in the finals. I know some of these markets have had checkered pasts with hockey, but just a concept!

North Version 1: Peoria, Quad City, Evansville, Detroit, Roanoke, Richmond, Trenton, Elmira
North Version 2: Peoria, Quad City, Evansville, Detroit, Bloomington, Chicago, Trenton, Elmira
Other Possible Markets: St. Charles, Flint, Port Huron, Muskegon, Kalamazoo

SPHL fits its niche because they are the only hockey option and occasionally the only entertainment option in town. They're also in non-traditional hockey areas and their exposure to hockey is mostly limited to that team. There's a few exceptions, like Huntsville Havoc share with D1 Alabama-Huntsville, Birmingham Bulls share with the popular ACHA powerhouse Crimson Frozen Tide.

But the markets you have just wouldn't work. Chicago has a team in the Show and the AHL too. That market is tapped out, the corpse of the Chicago Express is evidence enough. Flint is in a circle of having no fans therefore zero revenue because the team stinks and the team stinks because no kid wants to report because Flint is a garbage heap, so there's little fan support and it so on. No ownership group has touched Trenton with a ten foot stick since the EC team folded so it's safe to say there's something definitely wrong with it. Elmira is with Port Huron in that the only reason they still have any hockey is because the Fed budget is so low and they certainly wouldn't make it if they were forced to triple it. St. Charles is too close to St. Louis and that hockey market isn't big enough to allow a minor league team siphon off enough to live on. Roanoke shouldn't be in any northern division, they're traveling enough as it is. Richmond is without an arena like Hutch mentioned and with the size of the old coliseum as well as the size of the metro area they're probably looking at the EC rather than the SP.

Peoria, Quad City, and Evansville all recently joined the SP from the EC, I think all within the last 6-7 years, because the SP budget is a fraction of an EC budget. They're all doing okay so far, but there's nowhere near enough open markets, or markets that would be willing to change leagues. If that was the case, we'd have seen the Fed burst into them and create a UHL 2.0 by now.

 

[GrGriffins]

Not going to happen. The Palace of Auburn Hills, will end up like the Pontiac Silverdome and be part of history. When the Pistons owner Gores made the move of the Pistons to relocate them to LCA and move in with the Red Wings, I believe he signed an agreement to where the Palace will have to be closed out (nothing has happened there since late 2017) and taken down. The city of Auburn Hills is stalling on making this reality. The land that the Palace sits on is very valuable, but trying to figure out who will take over the property and who will pay for the demolition of the Palace remains up in the air.

Great venue as I have attended Vipers hockey and Fury (Arena Football) games there. It is too bad that the Palace will have a date with the wrecking ball.