HFVan Hockey League 2018-19

[E D]

Activate Eakin from IR
Send down Jean-Sebastien Dea (Should not require waivers)

 

[Tryamkin]

MURRAY IN A HURRY
/

The San Jose Sharks made a splash on Tuesday night dealing concussion prone goaltender Matt Murray to the Dallas Stars in a trade deal that also saw forward Jordan Martinook make his way to Dallas. Coming the other way, the main piece in the deal was defenseman Conor Timmins, a defenseman who has also seen his fair share of concussion problems. The promising defenseman may need a little time to catch up to speed and marinate in the AHL before being called up to the show. Goalie Anton Forsberg also comes the way of San Jose, a Swedish netminder who's shown some promise but has been struggling recently. Jamie McGinn is undergoing surgery and missing game time for a while, so he may just be a cap dump. San Jose also received two draft picks in the deal; Detroit's 2019 3rd and Boston's 2020 3rd. Murray may be out for a while, but the Stars are clearly looking towards the future with this deal, and with Martinook's hot start, he can fill in for some of their injured forwards.


To DAL: Matt Murray, Jordan Martinook
To SJ: Conor Timmins, Jamie McGinn, Anton Forsberg, 2020 BOS 2nd, 2019 DET 3rd​

 

[Tryamkin]

Patrick Dealt to NYI
/

Another big move on Tuesday night as the Edmonton Oilers have dealt former 2nd overall pick Nolan Patrick to the New York Islanders, as the contending Isles have dealt a number of young players back to Edmonton, including American winger Christian Dvorak who is currently out with a lower body injury. Finnish defenseman Sami Niku is another player included in the deal, and he's proven he can put up points with a 54 point season in the AHL last year. The final piece of the trade was Russian forward Igor Shyvyrov, a center who's just making the transition to the AHL from the KHL in Russia. The Isles are hoping Patrick can put together a good season with the team and help them boost their squad to keep up with the top guns.

To NYI: Nolan Patrick
To EDM: Sami Niku, Christian Dvorak, Igor Shyvyrov​

 

[Tryamkin]

will place RW Alex Tuch on IR to make room for newly acquired Jordan Martinook.
Alex Tuch - Vegas Golden Knights - 2018 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

Wow terrible value back for Murray. Dallas with some highway robbery.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Wow terrible value back for Murray. Dallas with some highway robbery.

Again

 

[Goon42]

XL oof

 

[Canucks LB]

Calling up Lammikko, Juho

 

[Dabeast]

demote Jake Walman

 

[Intoewsables]

Flames terminate the contract of Rick Nash

Do you have a better source? Everything else I've seen seems to contradict this.

 

[Intoewsables]

MURRAY IN A HURRY
/

The San Jose Sharks made a splash on Tuesday night dealing concussion prone goaltender Matt Murray to the Dallas Stars in a trade deal that also saw forward Jordan Martinook make his way to Dallas. Coming the other way, the main piece in the deal was defenseman Conor Timmins, a defenseman who has also seen his fair share of concussion problems. The promising defenseman may need a little time to catch up to speed and marinate in the AHL before being called up to the show. Goalie Anton Forsberg also comes the way of San Jose, a Swedish netminder who's shown some promise but has been struggling recently. Jamie McGinn is undergoing surgery and missing game time for a while, so he may just be a cap dump. San Jose also received two draft picks in the deal; Detroit's 2019 3rd and Boston's 2020 3rd. Murray may be out for a while, but the Stars are clearly looking towards the future with this deal, and with Martinook's hot start, he can fill in for some of their injured forwards.


To DAL: Matt Murray, Jordan Martinook
To SJ: Conor Timmins, Jamie McGinn, Anton Forsberg, 2020 BOS 2nd, 2019 DET 3rd​

This trade is pending league review.

 

[Tryamkin]

This trade is pending league review.

dislike

 

[Intoewsables]

Calling up Lammikko, Juho

He's not in the database yet but I'll backdate this when he is.

 

[Canucks LB]

This trade is pending league review.

easiest veto of the year

 

[FOurteenS inCisOr]

There’s no reason to veto any trade based on value.

If each GM negotiated and agreed to the trade in good faith, it should stand.

If there was collusion and/or ulterior motives, sure.

If there’s no evidence of that with the recent trade, I don’t see why vetoing it is a suggestion.

 

[LaVar]

There’s no reason to veto any trade based on value.

If each GM negotiated and agreed to the trade in good faith, it should stand.

If there was collusion and/or ulterior motives, sure.

If there’s no evidence of that with the recent trade, I don’t see why vetoing it is a suggestion.

Normally I would agree with this but the Werenski to Boston deal was vetoed.

Would be unfair to allow all trades based on that precedent....

 

[Intoewsables]

There’s no reason to veto any trade based on value.

If each GM negotiated and agreed to the trade in good faith, it should stand.

If there was collusion and/or ulterior motives, sure.

If there’s no evidence of that with the recent trade, I don’t see why vetoing it is a suggestion.

In general, I completely agree with this. However, I like to extend the veto power for new GMs who may not fully understand the difference between IRL value and fantasy value.

I hate vetoing deals but I don't want newer GMs being taken advantage of because they don't quite understand the scoring structure yet. It's not only unfair to the new GM but to the rest of the league as well.

 

[Tryamkin]

Normally I would agree with this but the Werenski to Boston deal was vetoed.

Would be unfair to allow all trades based on that precedent....

(not trying to start something here, just pleading my case)

Why would Joe do this trade if he thought he was going to lose?

cmon man, you can't compare this deal to the Werenski trade..

Adam Larsson puts up 10 -20 pts per season
Meier is good for 40 fwd ish pts
Bear could end up with 20 pts in the NHL.

You could probably sign replacement players that put up the points that Larsson and Bear will in free agency every year.

Werenski will be a 50 point scorer for 10 more years. That's roughly defenseman 500 points and he also scores a good amount of goals. Werenski is the YOUNGEST PLAYER in the trade. Drai said he didn't even know what the league was entirely about yet at that point.

TRADE:
To BOS: Zach Werenski
To EDM: Adam Larsson, Timo Meier, Ethan Bear



You would've destroyed the trade then, now, and 10 years later, plus Drai didn't even know what was going on, and Joe has alreayd made several solid trades and knows the game.


Matt Murray has severe risk attached, there's a chance he may never play again, even if that chance isn't 50/50, it's still a chance.

Timmins isn't an asset to sneeze at as people have been suggesting. He's already going to play in the NHL this year at 20 years old and has the potential to ascend all the way to the top of Colorado's D pairs in a few short years. Offensively strong with breakout passes and shots from the point, he was honestly tough to give up because I really like him. He did have a concussion like symptom injury recently, but that's healing well according to reports, while Murray has had 3 now.

Murray is on the Penguins, but he's been quite very bad recently. Last year he was 49th in Save % and played disgustingly at the beginning of the year. His GAA was about the same spot in the league at nearly 3 GAA. He was outplayed badly by BACKUP GOALIE Casey DeSmith and AHL GOALIE Tristan Jarry. This year in his two starts he posted a 5.45 GAA and a .831 Save %... That's not the Murray that we used to see. For people who think this is a highway robbery, it's not. It has potential to be won by both sides. Two draft picks in the 50-65 range are nothing to sneeze at either, those can be solid NHL players with the right drafting, and from knowing Joe on HF and his prospect knowledge, I don't think those picks will be wasted.


Bettman: No such thing as a veto in NHL - Sportsnet.ca

 

[LaVar]

(not trying to start something here, just pleading my case)

Why would Joe do this trade if he thought he was going to lose?

cmon man, you can't compare this deal to the Werenski trade..

Adam Larsson puts up 10 -20 pts per season
Meier is good for 35 fwd ish pts
Bear could end up with 20 pts in the NHL.

Werenski will be a 50 point scorer for 10 more years. That's roughly defenseman 500 points and he also scores a good amount of goals. Werenski is the YOUNGEST PLAYER in the trade. Drai said he didn't even know what the league was entirely about yet at that point.

TRADE:
To BOS: Zach Werenski
To EDM: Adam Larsson, Timo Meier, Ethan Bear



You would've destroyed the trade then, now, and 10 years later, plus Drai didn't even know what was going on, and Joe has alreayd made several solid trades and knows the game.


Matt Murray has severe risk attached, there's a chance he may never play again, even if that chance isn't 50/50, it's still a chance.

Timmins isn't an asset to sneeze at as people have been suggesting. He's already going to play in the NHL this year at 20 years old and has the potential to ascend all the way to the top of Colorado's D pairs in a few short years. Offensively strong with breakout passes and shots from the point, he was honestly tough to give up because I really like him. He did have a concussion like symptom injury recently, but that's healing well according to reports, while Murray has had 3 now.

Murray is on the Penguins, but he's been quite very bad recently. Last year he was 49th in Save % and played disgustingly at the beginning of the year. His GAA was about the same spot in the league at nearly 3 GAA. He was outplayed badly by BACKUP GOALIE Casey DeSmith and AHL GOALIE Tristan Jarry. This year in his two starts he posted a 5.45 GAA and a .831 Save %... That's not the Murray that we used to see. For people who think this is a highway robbery, it's not. It has potential to be won by both sides. Two draft picks in the 50-65 range are nothing to sneeze at either, those can be solid NHL players with the right drafting, and from knowing Joe on HF and his prospect knowledge, I don't think those picks will be wasted.


Bettman: No such thing as a veto in NHL - Sportsnet.ca

Uhh

Simplest way I can put it is

Murray >> Werenski

Not to mention I gave up a lot more than you did...for a far less valuable player.

And where are you getting that 500 point total from?

 

[Tryamkin]

Uhh

Simplest way I can put it is

Murray >> Werenski

Not to mention I gave up a lot more than you did...for a far less valuable player.

And where are you getting that 500 point total from?

You're ignoring the fact that Murray isn't what he was with injuries plaguing his career. Werenski is a surefire 20 year old top pairing defenseman at the time of the trade. Murray could never play a game in the league again for all we know.

If you veto this trade, there's 10 other trades that could be vetoed, but since when do NHL GMs get to press the veto button IRL.

 

[LaVar]

(not trying to start something here, just pleading my case)

Why would Joe do this trade if he thought he was going to lose?

Could you not say the same for Mcdrai?

cmon man, you can't compare this deal to the Werenski trade..

Adam Larsson puts up 10 -20 pts per season
Meier is good for 40 fwd ish pts
Bear could end up with 20 pts in the NHL.

You could probably sign replacement players that put up the points that Larsson and Bear will in free agency every year.

Larsson is good for 19.8 points per 82 games per season.

Meier has literally played ONE season, yet you're already placing limitations on him. No idea what he is capable of especially on a stacked SJ team.

Bear could end up with 20 points, just like....Timmins? Bear had arguably just a good D+1 season and had a stellar rookie campaign in the AHL.

Clearly no bias from you here.

Werenski will be a 50 point scorer for 10 more years. That's roughly defenseman 500 points and he also scores a good amount of goals. Werenski is the YOUNGEST PLAYER in the trade. Drai said he didn't even know what the league was entirely about yet at that point.

TRADE:
To BOS: Zach Werenski
To EDM: Adam Larsson, Timo Meier, Ethan Bear



You would've destroyed the trade then, now, and 10 years later, plus Drai didn't even know what was going on, and Joe has alreayd made several solid trades and knows the game.

Werenski has had two seasons -- 47 points and 37 points -- and to say he will CONSISTENTLY put up 50 points is disingenuous, when he's never once done that.

Not to mention BEAR is the youngest player in that trade, so....

Also haven't been keeping track, but care to list the "solid" trades Joe has made? (Genuinely haven't been paying attention to thread, tbh).

P.S. - Where did you get this 500 point total from??? I don't think a single defenceman cracked 300 points last season, let alone 500...

Matt Murray has severe risk attached, there's a chance he may never play again, even if that chance isn't 50/50, it's still a chance.

This is why your opinion on this matter shouldn't be taken into consideration, just like mine shouldn't have had any impact on the Werenski veto decision.

Do you realistically believe Murray may NEVER play again?

If we're doing chances, there's a CHANCE that Timmins never makes the NHL and SJ dealt a starting, back-to-back cup winning 24 year old goaltender on an inarguable top 10 team for nothing.

Timmins isn't an asset to sneeze at

Neither are Bear, or Meier to that extent... but you essentially called them worthless, so...

Didn't Timmins, just like Murray, have a concussion recently...? What if he never plays another game?

as people have been suggesting. He's already going to play in the NHL this year at 20 years old and has the potential to ascend all the way to the top of Colorado's D pairs in a few short years. Offensively strong with breakout passes and shots from the point, he was honestly tough to give up because I really like him. He did have a concussion like symptom injury recently, but that's healing well according to reports, while Murray has had 3 now.

Hey, I'll take your word for it because I honestly haven't seen him play much, but Timmins has all this potential that you've typed out but Bear and Meier have no ability to improve and become better players?

Murray is on the Penguins, but he's been quite very bad recently. Last year he was 49th in Save % and played disgustingly at the beginning of the year. His GAA was about the same spot in the league at nearly 3 GAA. He was outplayed badly by BACKUP GOALIE Casey DeSmith and AHL GOALIE Tristan Jarry. This year in his two starts he posted a 5.45 GAA and a .831 Save %... That's not the Murray that we used to see. For people who think this is a highway robbery, it's not. It has potential to be won by both sides. Two draft picks in the 50-65 range are nothing to sneeze at either, those can be solid NHL players with the right drafting, and from knowing Joe on HF and his prospect knowledge, I don't think those picks will be wasted.

1) You're using a 2 game sample size from Murray this season to indicate he's not the "Murray that we used to see"

2) Keep bringing up his injuries but perhaps those are the reason he isn't able to get into a groove? Injuries will eventually stop and he will get back to form...

3) What potential does SJ have to win this? Timmins becomes a 20-25 point defender (BEST CASE SCENARIO) which is the equivalent to..... someone you can nab through free agency!

4) Those picks are 1 and 2 years away, respectively, from even becoming players. From there you're looking at an additional 3-4 years before any impact is made at all. And that's assuming those picks are made properly, but the draft past the 1st/2nd can be a crap-shoot so...

Bettman: No such thing as a veto in NHL - Sportsnet.ca

How is this relevant?

We aren't the NHL and have already established that unfair deals will be vetoed. To turn around and allow all trades isn't fair to teams that already got the short end of the stick.

 

[LaVar]

Werenski last season - 151 pool points

Meier - 154.5
Larsson - 64
Bear - Wasn't recalled in this league so no calculations on pickup, but had 4 (?) pts in short stint

------------------------------------------------

Murray last season - 301 pool points

Timmins - 0

Not to mention Murray was pretty bad so imagine how many he could potentially get if/when he gets back to form.

Just for some perspective...

 

[Tryamkin]

Could you not say the same for Mcdrai?



Larsson is good for 19.8 points per 82 games per season.

Meier has literally played ONE season, yet you're already placing limitations on him. No idea what he is capable of especially on a stacked SJ team.

Bear could end up with 20 points, just like....Timmins? Bear had arguably just a good D+1 season and had a stellar rookie campaign in the AHL.

Clearly no bias from you here.



Werenski has had two seasons -- 47 points and 37 points -- and to say he will CONSISTENTLY put up 50 points is disingenuous, when he's never once done that.

Not to mention BEAR is the youngest player in that trade, so....

Also haven't been keeping track, but care to list the "solid" trades Joe has made? (Genuinely haven't been paying attention to thread, tbh).

P.S. - Where did you get this 500 point total from??? I don't think a single defenceman cracked 300 points last season, let alone 500...



This is why your opinion on this matter shouldn't be taken into consideration, just like mine shouldn't have had any impact on the Werenski veto decision.

Do you realistically believe Murray may NEVER play again?

If we're doing chances, there's a CHANCE that Timmins never makes the NHL and SJ dealt a starting, back-to-back cup winning 24 year old goaltender on an inarguable top 10 team for nothing.


Neither are Bear, or Meier to that extent... but you essentially called them worthless, so...

Didn't Timmins, just like Murray, have a concussion recently...? What if he never plays another game?


Hey, I'll take your word for it because I honestly haven't seen him play much, but Timmins has all this potential that you've typed out but Bear and Meier have no ability to improve and become better players?



1) You're using a 2 game sample size from Murray this season to indicate he's not the "Murray that we used to see"

2) Keep bringing up his injuries but perhaps those are the reason he isn't able to get into a groove? Injuries will eventually stop and he will get back to form...

3) What potential does SJ have to win this? Timmins becomes a 20-25 point defender (BEST CASE SCENARIO) which is the equivalent to..... someone you can nab through free agency!

4) Those picks are 1 and 2 years away, respectively, from even becoming players. From there you're looking at an additional 3-4 years before any impact is made at all. And that's assuming those picks are made properly, but the draft past the 1st/2nd can be a crap-shoot so...



How is this relevant?

We aren't the NHL and have already established that unfair deals will be vetoed. To turn around and allow all trades isn't fair to teams that already got the short end of the stick.

1) no, mcdrai openly said he wanted the trade reversed because he wasn’t aware,
Joe hasn’t said that.

2) yes 10-20 includes 19.8 like I said. He’s had worse seasons.

3) Meier is a good player, 40 pts is an accurate guess

4) Comparing Timmins to Bear is funny, lets come back to that one.

5) Werenski missed some time last season, so yeah obviously he had 37 pts, and I’m being nice saying he’ll have 10, because he could very well have 12 or 13 seasons.

6) not sure where you get ur stats from chief but Werenski is definitely younger than Bear, unless you think July is before June.

7) he traded Nugent Hopkins for a 1st , 3rd, 3rd, 5th Martinook and Gibbons, a good start to rebuild, as well as Gostisbehere to ANA for a large package including A Nylander, McCann, Hutton and a bunch of picks (2nd, 3rd)

8) 50 IRL NHL points x 10 NHL seasons. quite simple and realistic for a player who cracked the NHL at 19 and shows dynamic offensive ability.

9) I honestly don’t think you’re trade should’ve been vetoed myself, but that’s besides the point. Vetoes shouldn’t be a thing in this league because as toews said himself, GMs don’t get redos and the idea is to make the game realistic. Not every trade in the NHL is with fair value going to each side. The only vetoed deal should’ve been the Pizza Man deal because there was a confusion on which player they meant.

10) definitely didn’t call them worthless players. Larsson is a defensive defenseman who doesn’t hold much value in this offensive format, and you know that yourself. Meier has had a good start, I think 40 points is realistic for this season, he may be able to hit 50+ later, but defensemen points are more valuable by comparison.

11) Timmins doesn’t have 20 point potential, cmon now. He’s an offensive defenseman.

12) Timmins had a problem with concussion like symptoms.. Murray has had 3 concussions, not close to the same. There’s risk in the trade from my side and that’s also a fact.

I understand that most people won’t take my side in this issue, but this deal isn’t even the most vetoable of deals that have happened, there’s been many worse, and worse than Werenski deal too.

 

[LaVar]

1) 7) he traded Nugent Hopkins for a 1st , 3rd, 3rd, 5th Martinook and Gibbons, a good start to rebuild, as well as Gostisbehere to ANA for a large package including A Nylander, McCann, Hutton and a bunch of picks (2nd, 3rd)

only thing worth replying to and that's arguably worse than the Werenski trade

 

[Tryamkin]

only thing worth replying to and that's arguably worse than the Werenski trade

the only thing you can reply to**

and let’s just veto everything then

no trade league