HFBoards Official Media Blackout.

[futurcorerock]

Does this mean you'll never wash this thread?

not so sure about that... I mean, if Eliza Dushku had replied, we'd most certainly have another story here.

 

[GKJ]

not so sure about that... I mean, if Eliza Dushku had replied, we'd most certainly have another story here.

I am actually Eliza Dushku.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

That's my job, and it's already been done. We don't allow anyone to impersonate members of the media here, both for their own protection and to preserve the integrity of our site.

Any chance we can have "The Official Ask Bob Mackenzie Thread"?

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

All I would advise all fans at this point is to not get too hung up on semantics. Was there a formal "proposal", as in a written document that people have their hands on, no there wasn't. Were specific concepts on specific issues "proposed" to the NHLPA in the meeting, yes there were. Now, do you really think the NHLPA reps in the meeting spend a lot of time differentiating between the two? I don't. And while you guys debate whether something that is proposed can be a proposal or not, it should be clear to everyone that whatever was talked about (and yes, it was cost certainty, it was a cap) it wasn't well received by the NHLPA. We know this because no further talks are planned and the PA put out a news release citing "significant philosophical differences," the same phrase they used last Thursday, the day before Trevor Linden et al ripped away on Friday.

The trouble, as I see it, is that most fans want it cut and dried, black and white, neat and tidy. With neither side speaking for the record, but sending messages through the media nonetheless, it's going to be much more convoluted than that. Plus, collective bargaining is all about shades of grey, interpretation etc. All that said, if you can find someone to come out with a positive spin on what went on in New York tonight, bless you. But it's not over yet, damn close, but not yet.

We in the media don't always get everything right, not by a longshot, but at the end of the day I like our batting average better than most. And remember, sometimes we know more than we can say but in order to protect sources we can't always say it as clearly as we'd like. I'm sure we'll hear more on all of this tomorrow because there's bound to be a Linden message or more info on the NHLPA membership site and it won't take long for that to filter out. For now, though, you really need only three bits of info to deal with: no further talks planned; significant philosophical differences, it's Jan. 28th. If you were going on TV to talk about it, what would you say?

Thanks Bob. Your input is greatly appreciated. It's not everyday that we get to discuss these issues with somebody who knows all the participants involved in these negotiations.

 

[no13matssundin]

Hey Bob. Thanks for posting here.

Can I ask a serious favour of you?

Now, you've probably already let the PA/NHL peeps know in your own words how bad theyre screwing the League up...

is there ANY way when you talk to whoever you know in these camps, if you can seriously impress on them how bad the PR war is going for BOTH of them, and maybe ask in your own way if theres any way that ANY progress can be made?

Thanks.

 

[Hangover]

We in the media don't always get everything right, not by a longshot, but at the end of the day I like our batting average better than most. And remember, sometimes we know more than we can say but in order to protect sources we can't always say it as clearly as we'd like. I'm sure we'll hear more on all of this tomorrow because there's bound to be a Linden message or more info on the NHLPA membership site and it won't take long for that to filter out. For now, though, you really need only three bits of info to deal with: no further talks planned; significant philosophical differences, it's Jan. 28th. If you were going on TV to talk about it, what would you say?

What I find both interesting and also sad is the amount of assumptions used by both TSN and Sportsnet to come to the conclusions you have that things are as grim as you say.

Both are assuming gloom and doom because:

1. The meeting was over and no more are planned.

2. There may have been an offer but it wasn't signed on the spot by the PA. they must have gone home to line the birdcage with it.

3. Nothing could possibly be happeing in the way of meetings because we haven't heard anything about it. No, they don't use their phones to talk to each other.

4. Everything Linden or Goodenow publish on their internal website will get to us and be accurate. These won't be placed leaks at all, unlike the other leaks they send to us.

5. the "NO CAP EVER" stance is to be taken as a stance as solid as the ten commandments. There's no way they would ever change this without telling TSN, Wade Belak, Bryan McCabe or any other bigmouthed player who clearly would know everything Linden does.

You guys are spinning the negative beacuse it's the easier of the two sides to be on. In reality you shouldn't be spinning anything as I don't think any major media person following this has more than one source and he's likely the nightwatchmen at the office building across from the NHL head offices.

The assumptions are driving people into a frenzy, not what's really going on. Beacuse what's really going on is actually still somewhat positive. The towel has not been thrown in by either side yet most major media are throwing it in for them.

 

[Legionnaire]

I am actually Eliza Dushku.

Hey baby, what's up.

 

[Greschner4]

All I would advise all fans at this point is to not get too hung up on semantics. Was there a formal "proposal", as in a written document that people have their hands on, no there wasn't. Were specific concepts on specific issues "proposed" to the NHLPA in the meeting, yes there were. Now, do you really think the NHLPA reps in the meeting spend a lot of time differentiating between the two? I don't. And while you guys debate whether something that is proposed can be a proposal or not, it should be clear to everyone that whatever was talked about (and yes, it was cost certainty, it was a cap) it wasn't well received by the NHLPA. We know this because no further talks are planned and the PA put out a news release citing "significant philosophical differences," the same phrase they used last Thursday, the day before Trevor Linden et al ripped away on Friday.

The trouble, as I see it, is that most fans want it cut and dried, black and white, neat and tidy. With neither side speaking for the record, but sending messages through the media nonetheless, it's going to be much more convoluted than that. Plus, collective bargaining is all about shades of grey, interpretation etc. All that said, if you can find someone to come out with a positive spin on what went on in New York tonight, bless you. But it's not over yet, damn close, but not yet.

We in the media don't always get everything right, not by a longshot, but at the end of the day I like our batting average better than most. And remember, sometimes we know more than we can say but in order to protect sources we can't always say it as clearly as we'd like. I'm sure we'll hear more on all of this tomorrow because there's bound to be a Linden message or more info on the NHLPA membership site and it won't take long for that to filter out. For now, though, you really need only three bits of info to deal with: no further talks planned; significant philosophical differences, it's Jan. 28th. If you were going on TV to talk about it, what would you say?

That there's little room for optimism. The owners have said from the beginning that they want a salary cap and now we've had several meetings -- without Bettman and Goodenow, the supposed impediments -- had the coaches meetings, had the Ducks and Coyotes "getting ready for training camp," had Lamoriello invited to the meetings, had Mario in Toronto, etc., all of which made people optimistic and, after all this, the owners' latest and best offer was ... a salary cap.

The owners want a salary cap. The players don't want to give them one. That's where we are and that's where we've always been. Barring the players completely caving -- which there's absolutely no objective evidence suggesting they will -- something like the latest offer reported on tsn's website will be the CBA implemented by the owners sometime before next training camp, and we'll see what happens then.

Another reason for pessimism: To the extent the players continue to negotiate, they're only playing into the owners hands; remember that the owners need to show good faith negotiations to legally declare and uphold an impasse.

 

[futurcorerock]

what does dushku have to say about the hottest prospects eligible for the '05 draft

 

[txomisc]

I am actually Eliza Dushku.

Hey Eliza remember when..this is awesome..remember when you were in that movie. And you were up in that tree and those guys were chasing you? remember when you were hiding under that bed and and you thought they were going to catch you? that was awesome
/end chris farley voice

 

[PecaFan]

My problem with the media has been all the speculation. I'm old enough to remember a time when the media reported *facts*. Most of the media is now reporting speculation and rumours. That's fine if you're a columnist, but most of this isn'.

I don't even bother reading or watching Sportsnet now for this reason.

 

[I in the Eye]

IMO, speculation is now our best friend in these negotiations... IMO, we should embrace and appear to be following the doom and gloom speculation...

IMO, to get a salary cap of any kind, the NHL needs the players (and everyone else - including the media and us fans) to truly believe that they are not going to move off of the hard cap stance... IMHO, this is not their true intention - but they need to make it appear like they are compromising (by in the final hour, moving off of this stance)...

If the NHL said 'salary cap of any kind', the NHLPA would be saying 'no salary cap of any kind'... But by focusing attention on the 'hard cap', there's still a lot of room to get a salary cap - even when 'compromising'...

IMO, the latest NHL proposal is a sign that they are willing to move off of a strict hard cap stance (it reportedly incorporated elements of a hard cap and a soft cap)... IMHO, the latest NHL proposal is not nearly their best offer...

IMHO, another NHL proposal is coming - very soon... Perhaps it was even prepared in the summer... When it is finally sent, we'll know when the final hour is... I thought that the last proposal was it... but perhaps the league felt it needed additional proof that they are 'serious' about a hard cap...

The NHL needs to present to the NHLPA an element of surprise... When you are near, make it look like you are far... Strike when the enemy least expects it...That's how you win a war with minimal hardship and casualties...

It sucks for us who love NHL hockey that it needs to go down to the very last second (and our emotions are being sent on a rollercoaster ride)... But, IMO, there is great reason to be optimistic... Maybe it's because I think I see where this is going - or maybe it's because I'm naive I just can't believe that the NHL would let hockey slip away over a 'hard cap' stance... It doesn't make sense, IMO...

For the plan to work, the media must report doom and gloom... Us fans and the players must believe that the owners are not willing to move off of the hard cap stance... Small market team fans must be demanding a hard cap... The NHL needs a strong case to justify the hard cap stance...

IMO, there should not be an official media blockout here (or anywhere)... Spread the word near and far... Hockey is almost dead. Hard cap or death you greedy b****** players!

shhh...

 

[quat]

IMO, speculation is now our best friend in these negotiations... IMO, we should embrace and appear to be following the doom and gloom speculation...

IMO, to get a salary cap of any kind, the NHL needs the players (and everyone else - including the media and us fans) to truly believe that they are not going to move off of the hard cap stance... IMHO, this is not their true intention - but they need to make it appear like they are compromising (by in the final hour, moving off of this stance)...

If the NHL said 'salary cap of any kind', the NHLPA would be saying 'no salary cap of any kind'... But by focusing attention on the 'hard cap', there's still a lot of room to get a salary cap - even when 'compromising'...

IMO, the latest NHL proposal is a sign that they are willing to move off of a strict hard cap stance (it reportedly incorporated elements of a hard cap and a soft cap)... IMHO, the latest NHL proposal is not nearly their best offer...

IMHO, another NHL proposal is coming - very soon... Perhaps it was even prepared in the summer... When it is finally sent, we'll know when the final hour is... I thought that the last proposal was it... but perhaps the league felt it needed additional proof that they are 'serious' about a hard cap...
The NHL needs to present to the NHLPA an element of surprise... When you are near, make it look like you are far... Strike when the enemy least expects it...That's how you win a war with minimal hardship and casualties...

It sucks for us who love NHL hockey that it needs to go down to the very last second (and our emotions are being sent on a rollercoaster ride)... But, IMO, there is great reason to be optimistic... Maybe it's because I think I see where this is going - or maybe it's because I'm naive I just can't believe that the NHL would let hockey slip away over a 'hard cap' stance... It doesn't make sense, IMO...

For the plan to work, the media must report doom and gloom... Us fans and the players must believe that the owners are not willing to move off of the hard cap stance... Small market team fans must be demanding a hard cap... The NHL needs a strong case to justify the hard cap stance...

IMO, there should not be an official media blockout here (or anywhere)... Spread the word near and far... Hockey is almost dead. Hard cap or death you greedy b****** players!

shhh...

Heyyyyy no fair man... you're thinking! Another good post.

It seems the lack of a drop dead date and the fact the NHL isn't meeting the PA's expectations re: lack of resolve, seems to be the impitus that is prolonging the length of the lockout. It seems that the PA has tested the NHL's resolve and now it comes down to whether or not the players are willing to lose the season. If there was in fact a "secret" ballot recently regarding the players feelings regarding the loss of a whole season and beyond, I doubt the PA would come out and publicly capitulate even if they had a 100% vote to accept a hard cap. They have to posture to prevent getting eaten alive up till the time a deal is signed. The fact players like Linden are so bitter may actually be a good sign that something will get done... it's just they don't like it.

Rather facinating really, though I'd prefer to watch hockey.

 

[Buffaloed]

Any chance we can have "The Official Ask Bob Mackenzie Thread"?

There's no chance of that unless TSN buys our site or we can hire him for a box of crackerjack when his contract is up. I'd give both about as much chance as another comeback by Lafleur.

 

[futurcorerock]

good call, I in the Eye

This whole "roller coaster" started when the BOG meeting was cancelled. A lot of people assumed the meeting would be to vote on whether or not a season was viable at that point. At first i guess a lot of people took it as a sign of the end of the season, but my oh my look where we're at now.

 

[Hawker14]

bob mckenzie = larry brooks

as a hockey fan, i put this much faith into their reports (0 %)

both have an agenda, and neither are usually factual.

 

[thinkwild]

I just can't believe that the NHL would let hockey slip away over a 'hard cap' stance... It doesn't make sense, IMO...

I want to believe it. That the owners wont let the season slip away like they said they would. That they wont wait out the players for a cap like they said they would. They know what asking for a cap means. It means years of battles. It means testing the players resolve to sacrifice themselves for the future while ruining their brand and costing them millions. It doesnt make sense. The players are not going to accept a cap. Why go this far?

Perhaps its the old political trick. First you have to manufacture a deep crisis. Then save the day. I hope you're right. I used to believe like you they wouldnt do this either.