Line Combos: HFBoards Decides: Opening Lineup - Olli Maatta

[Shady Machine]

I think Cole - Letang could be really good.

It could be. I just think that's a lot to of pressure to give to Cole. Let's not forget he couldn't crack St Louis' top 6 and now we want to pencil him into our top pairing?

Also, even with the Niskanen comparisons, it took Nisky a long time to establish himself as a top 4 guy here.

 

[systemsgo]

I'd like them seperated at least to start the season just to provide some balance throughout the pairings. There is going to be a lot of inexperience on the blue line at the start so even though Olli isn't a vet or anything he has the poise of a vet and can anchor his own line.

Maatta - Letang is our #1 pair in general for a long time though.

If anything, it should be done the other way around. Have Letang and Maatta play the top line at the start, let the others get more experience with more important minutes. And when they show they can do it, then we move Cole up and Maatta down to have two good pairings. Playing guys beyond their current capabilities can play havoc with their confidence.

 

[Shady Machine]

If anything, it should be done the other way around. Have Letang and Maatta play the top line at the start, let the others get more experience with more important minutes. And when they show they can do it, then we move Cole up and Maatta down to have two good pairings. Playing guys beyond their current capabilities can play havoc with their confidence.

Agreed. That's the way I would do it as well.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

Yeah I get that logic too. At this point it's hard to imagine them both staying healthy though especially if they are being depended upon that much and inevitably putting up huge TOI's.

Please, hockey gods, spare us this one season.

 

[Mike Lange Version 2]

If anything, it should be done the other way around. Have Letang and Maatta play the top line at the start, let the others get more experience with more important minutes. And when they show they can do it, then we move Cole up and Maatta down to have two good pairings. Playing guys beyond their current capabilities can play havoc with their confidence.

This honestly makes the most sense by far. If someone steps up we separate them.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If anything, it should be done the other way around. Have Letang and Maatta play the top line at the start, let the others get more experience with more important minutes. And when they show they can do it, then we move Cole up and Maatta down to have two good pairings. Playing guys beyond their current capabilities can play havoc with their confidence.

Why do you think these complementary guys are going to be sheltered if there's two of them on the 2nd pair? Most teams have more than one scoring line. So instead of having one established top 4 guy to anchor each of our top 2 pairs, it's going to be a fire drill every time our 2nd and 3rd pairs take the ice.

And if I'm an opposing coach and the Pens go with Maatta/Letang, I'm salivating at the thought of last change.

Good call on the ES numbers. I was just approximating. I do think with Martin and Ehrhoff gone, Letang's ES ice time will increase.

I just don't know that I trust Cole or Dumo to play that many minutes with Letang.

That said, I don't have a strong preference either way, so it's a toss up to me.

Yeah I figured you were ballparking off the cuff. I just didn't want anybody getting the idea that these complementary types were going to be playing a bunch more ES minutes on account of being on the top pairing.

Any complementary guy in our top 4 is probably going to be getting about 17 minutes ES regardless of how the top 4 shakes out. I'd rather those minutes be played with someone who has top 4 experience instead of throwing them together on the 2nd pairing to figure things out on their own.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Maatta Letang.

Heck Maatta has been out for awhile let him get some confidence playing with Letang

 

[Shady Machine]

Yeah I figured you were ballparking off the cuff. I just didn't want anybody getting the idea that these complementary types were going to be playing a bunch more ES minutes on account of being on the top pairing.

Any complementary guy in our top 4 is probably going to be getting about 17 minutes ES regardless of how the top 4 shakes out. I'd rather those minutes be played with someone who has top 4 experience instead of throwing them together on the 2nd pairing to figure things out on their own.

You think so? I disagree with that. The way our D is currently constructed, I see Maatta-Letang getting higher ES minutes than the next 2 pairs by a few minutes.

If I were MJ, I'd play Pouliot on top PP, somewhat shelter him at ES, and play the hell out of Letang at ES.

Let's assume Pens are on PP 6 min and PK 6 min a game (it's probably closer to 4-5 but just for simplicity sake).

That means 48 minutes a game is at ES. Of those 48 minutes, I'd probably go something like:

19min Maatta-Letang
15min Pouliot-Cole
14min Dumo-Lovejoy

I honestly don't care too much how you break out the bottom 2 pairings.

Of the 6min PP time:

3-4min Pouliot (only dman on top pairing)
2-3min Letang
1-2min Maatta


Of the 6min PK time:

3min Maatta and Letang
2min Cole-Lovejoy
1min Dumo-Cole

So total minutes would approximately be:

24-25min Letang
23-24min Maatta
18-19min Pouliot
18min Cole
15min Dumo
16min Lovejoy

 

[drpepper]

You think so? I disagree with that. The way our D is currently constructed, I see Maatta-Letang getting higher ES minutes than the next 2 pairs by a few minutes.

If I were MJ, I'd play Pouliot on top PP, somewhat shelter him at ES, and play the hell out of Letang at ES.

Let's assume Pens are on PP 6 min and PK 6 min a game (it's probably closer to 4-5 but just for simplicity sake).

That means 48 minutes a game is at ES. Of those 48 minutes, I'd probably go something like:

19min Maatta-Letang
15min Pouliot-Cole
14min Dumo-Lovejoy

I honestly don't care too much how you break out the bottom 2 pairings.

Of the 6min PP time:

3-4min Pouliot (only dman on top pairing)
2-3min Letang
1-2min Maatta


Of the 6min PK time:

3min Maatta and Letang
2min Cole-Lovejoy
1min Dumo-Cole

So total minutes would approximately be:

24-25min Letang
23-24min Maatta
18-19min Pouliot
18min Cole
15min Dumo
16min Lovejoy

Pouliot shouldn't be playing the only defenseman on the top PP.

Making mistakes last year (as the only d-man on the top power play) seemed to knock his confidence and negatively affected his 5v5 play which the Pens can't afford with him as a top 4 defender.

Also, that is too many minutes for Pouliot and Dumoulin. And probably for Maatta as well if the Pens want him usable at the end of the season.

 

[Fordy]

Pouliot shouldn't be playing the only defenseman on the top PP.

Making mistakes last year (as the only d-man on the top power play) seemed to knock his confidence and negatively affected his 5v5 play which the Pens can't afford with him as a top 4 defender.

Also, that is too many minutes for Pouliot and Dumoulin. And probably for Maatta as well if the Pens want him usable at the end of the season.

i would rather focus on getting that confidence in pouliot then just avoid playing him in the ideal position for this team

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You think so? I disagree with that. The way our D is currently constructed, I see Maatta-Letang getting higher ES minutes than the next 2 pairs by a few minutes.

If I were MJ, I'd play Pouliot on top PP, somewhat shelter him at ES, and play the hell out of Letang at ES.

Let's assume Pens are on PP 6 min and PK 6 min a game (it's probably closer to 4-5 but just for simplicity sake).

That means 48 minutes a game is at ES. Of those 48 minutes, I'd probably go something like:

19min Maatta-Letang
15min Pouliot-Cole
14min Dumo-Lovejoy

I honestly don't care too much how you break out the bottom 2 pairings.

Of the 6min PP time:

3-4min Pouliot (only dman on top pairing)
2-3min Letang
1-2min Maatta


Of the 6min PK time:

3min Maatta and Letang
2min Cole-Lovejoy
1min Dumo-Cole

So total minutes would approximately be:

24-25min Letang
23-24min Maatta
18-19min Pouliot
18min Cole
15min Dumo
16min Lovejoy

I'm going by previous years. The only time in the past 5 years we had a top 4 defenseman who didn't play at least 17 ES minutes a game was '10-'11, and that one defenseman played 16:52.

We can try to neatly distribute the time by pairing, but with injuries and makeshift pairings after special teams, things change.

Another way to frame the argument is that there are 30 teams in the league, so we could look at the ESTOI/G of the top 120 defensemen. The 120th defenseman in ESTOI/G was Torey Krug, with 16:46.

 

[Shady Machine]

Pouliot shouldn't be playing the only defenseman on the top PP.

Making mistakes last year (as the only d-man on the top power play) seemed to knock his confidence and negatively affected his 5v5 play which the Pens can't afford with him as a top 4 defender.

Also, that is too many minutes for Pouliot and Dumoulin. And probably for Maatta as well if the Pens want him usable at the end of the season.

Okay then who the hell plays the extra minutes? There are 60 minutes in a game and the best 6 dmen are Letang, Maatta, Cole, Pouliot, Dumo, Lovejoy. If you think the kids are all given too many minutes, that means you think Lovejoy and Cole should play more. Is that what you were trying to say?

As for Pouliot on the top PP, I think that's where his skillset is best utilized on the team. If he's not getting significant PP minutes, I'm not sure how much value he brings to the team.

 

[Shady Machine]

I'm going by previous years. The only time in the past 5 years we had a top 4 defenseman who didn't play at least 17 ES minutes a game was '10-'11, and that one defenseman played 16:52.

We can try to neatly distribute the time by pairing, but with injuries and makeshift pairings after special teams, things change.

Another way to frame the argument is that there are 30 teams in the league, so we could look at the ESTOI/G of the top 120 defensemen. The 120th defenseman in ESTOI/G was Torey Krug, with 16:46.

Yeah you're right. I'm looking at it by how I'd like the lay out the minutes as opposed to history.

Like I said, I don't really care that much one way or the other on this one. I lean to keep Maatta-Letang together, but I'm fine with the alternative.

 

[mpp9]

Cole-Letang
Dumoulin-Maatta
DP-Lovejoy

If you want balance, I think thats the way to go.

 

[Shady Machine]

Cole-Letang
Dumoulin-Maatta
DP-Lovejoy

If you want balance, I think thats the way to go.

Can Maatta play the right side?

That's the other big question here. Our right D are Letang and Lovejoy. DP, Dumo, Maatta are all left D. I thought I remembered Cole being comfortable on the right side as well.

So IF Cole plays with Letang, who else can play right D? I don't claim to know, just curious.

 

[Jacob]

Cole-Letang
Dumoulin-Maatta
DP-Lovejoy

If you want balance, I think thats the way to go.

That's what I'd do. But I'm not as married to the idea of separating Letang & Maatta as I am playing Kessel with Malkin.

I think you can always throw Maatta & Letang together like, in the last 90 seconds of a close game or on a big kill or whatever.

 

[PensandCaps]

Cole with letang and maatta with dumo or DP

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Lefty who plays on the right side.

I just wanted to get another confirmation to the above. Is that correct [about Cole]?

 

[Asuna]

I just wanted to get another confirmation to the above. Is that correct [about Cole]?

Yep.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Can Maatta play the right side?

That's the other big question here. Our right D are Letang and Lovejoy. DP, Dumo, Maatta are all left D. I thought I remembered Cole being comfortable on the right side as well.

So IF Cole plays with Letang, who else can play right D? I don't claim to know, just curious.

I'd go:

Cole - Letang
Maatta - Lovejoy
Dumo - DP

I know Lovejoy's persona non grata around here, but I think he can be a serviceable #4 beside Maatta. DP played a fair bit of RD down the stretch in his last Mem Cup run IIRC.

 

[PensandCaps]

I'd go:

Cole - Letang
Maatta - Lovejoy
Dumo - DP

I know Lovejoy's persona non grata around here, but I think he can be a serviceable #4 beside Maatta. DP played a fair bit of RD down the stretch in his last Mem Cup run IIRC.

Ugh lovejoy playing top 4 minutes? My eyes will melt if he plays more than 17 minutes

 

[Shady Machine]

I'd go:

Cole - Letang
Maatta - Lovejoy
Dumo - DP

I know Lovejoy's persona non grata around here, but I think he can be a serviceable #4 beside Maatta. DP played a fair bit of RD down the stretch in his last Mem Cup run IIRC.

I'm fine with that. I honestly don't care all that much as long as those are the 6 regular Dmen and the 3rd pairing gets 12+ minutes consistently.

 

[NeedleInTheHay]

I felt a little nauseous reading this thread because it reminds me how much better this team could look if we didn't trade for Lovejoy.

 

[cygnus47]

Ideally it would be good to separate them, but with no other bonafide top 4 players I'd rather have at least one great pairing rather than potentially none.

Start with Maatta - Letang and then if someone earns the spot, split them up.