HF Sharks Quarantine Survival Thread #2: Question/Debate of the Day (New Q: Mar 31st)

The Nemesis

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Apr 11, 2005
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j1P4yb.png

jTUcvv.png


The last of the current Quarantine Survival Threads I want to introduce for now is one that's a little more "normal" for HF standards. And also the only one that's likely to actually change to a new thread on a regular basis.

Every few days I'm going to pose a question for everyone to debate or discuss. Not really any different than we might get any other time on here except that I'm going to keep things rolling by having set intervals at which I'll be giving new questions rather than simply having a thread start whenever and die whenever.

Unlike the trivia challenge, this isn't going to be a contest. I originally thought of running it somewhat like a proper competitive debate in that each side would present a case and then be judged a winner, but that just doesn't seem like fun and I don't have the time or drive to want to play debate moderator over and above regular board moderator. :P

Just have at it with whatever question is posed, however you wish to.

The only thing I will say is that in the interest of keeping this a light, time-wasting activity akin to the other threads, I will probably be a little tighter in terms of moderating the tone and discourse level of the thread. This is a place to bat about opinions and thoughts on a question in the name of fun. Since it's not about "winning" I will likely have a low tolerance for people presenting their case in a "this is the only acceptable answer. If you disagree you're wrong and should feel bad" manner or any amount of goalpost-moving, semantic-arguing, hairsplitting, needlessly pissy pedantry or seemingly intentional griefing. Things kinda suck right now and we all should be better and remember that getting to sit around and talk hockey with friends and comrades should be a welcome respite from whatever else is going on.

So, on with the question for round 1:

If you could take one skill or ability from a member of the current San Jose Sharks roster and give it to another player on the current roster, what would you take, who would you give it to, and why?

For example, and partially using non-current Sharks to avoid tainting the question, would you give Patrick Marleau's speed to Tomas Hertl? Brenden Dillon's physicality to Kevin Labanc? Joonas Donskoi's stickhandling to Noah Gregor? The choice is yours as long as you remember the following:

a) I'm only talking about current Sharks on both ends of the real question. Nobody from prior seasons and nobody who was not on the roster or in the organization as of the suspension of the season. The use of former Sharks above is just for the purposes of that example.

b) To be clear, "health" is not a skill, nor are body attributes or conditions. You can't propose giving someone Patrick Marleau's injury resistance, nor can you grant a player uninjured body parts or physical attributes like being bigger/taller. We're talking specific skills and abilities, either tangible (skating attributes like speed/agility/balance, strength or checking ability, shooting and passing ability, stickhandling, or deking, Goalie abilities too such as lateral movement, reflexes, glove/stick prowess, and so forth.) or intangible (offensive IQ, defensive IQ/positioning knowledge, reading angles and deciphering opponents' intent, etc)

c) We would assume that if you give a skill to a player, that player gets all the requisite secondary characteristics to be able to make proper use of it. So if you granted physicality to a player like, say, Labanc, we assume that having the skill would make him of the temperament to use it and that he would be able to do so without grinding his own body into dust (without him necessarily packing on 20 extra pounds or growing 4 inches taller).

I haven't decided yet how frequently I'll swap out or clean up this thread. We'll have to see how it goes. A new thread for every question makes sense, but I don't know if I want to have to explain the concept from scratch again every time, nor if I want the front page to be littered with a half-dozen still-somewhat-posted-in iterations of this concept to the extent that it chokes out every other avenue of discussion. So how this progresses is yet to be determined. But I will come and change out the question for a new one every few days.
 

slocal

Dude...what?
May 4, 2010
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Central Coast CA
Sweet, made it one post before someone proved they can't follow the rules. :laugh:

I would give Couture's stick defense at the blue line to Kane. So many more breakaways would happen.
 

drunksage

lol light beer
Jan 13, 2007
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Thornton's passing ability has been one of our greatest assets for years, so it seems like a great starting point.

I'm not sure where to have it land though. I suppose Labanc since he's shown he'd take an insane discount for us. :sarcasm:
 

OrrNumber4

Registered User
Jul 25, 2002
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Thornton's hockey sense in Brent Burns's body.

Seriously, Burns is a hockey's coach dream in terms of the physical package. Big, strong, great endurance, and a tremendous skater both in terms of speed and agility. While he has good hockey sense, give him Thornton's elite sense and Burns is one of the greatest defensemen of all time.
 

Gecklund

Registered User
Jul 17, 2012
25,306
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California
Sweet, made it one post before someone proved they can't follow the rules. :laugh:

I would give Couture's stick defense at the blue line to Kane. So many more breakaways would happen.
BOOOOOOOOOO don’t act like a 19 year old Jumbo isn’t exactly what we need. :laugh: :sarcasm:
 
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OrrNumber4

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BOOOOOOOOOO don’t act like a 19 year old Jumbo isn’t exactly what we need. :laugh: :sarcasm:

Don't want to rehash this debate, but we just had many years of prime Joe Thornton with little to show for it. For all his talent and skill, there are holes in his game that are exploited come playoff time. I'd rather rejuvenate Burns or Karlsson
 

Gecklund

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Don't want to rehash this debate, but we just had many years of prime Joe Thornton with little to show for it. For all his talent and skill, there are holes in his game that are exploited come playoff time. I'd rather rejuvenate Burns or Karlsson
I mean in his prime Jumbo with last seasons roster we’d be winning the cup.
 

OrrNumber4

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Jul 25, 2002
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I mean in his prime Jumbo with last seasons roster we’d be winning the cup.

Maybe. But I can imagine a situation where prime Thornton drags down the first line instead of the third line. His increased importance to the team magnifies the effect of his slumping.
 

tiburon12

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Jul 18, 2009
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Maybe Karlsson's agility to Hertl. Hertl already has the moves, awareness, and strength, but if he could pull them off quicker, he'd be a highlight machine
 

The Nemesis

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Apr 11, 2005
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It's been a weird couple of days that have put me behind on updating this stuff, so I'm a little late with the next question:

If you could rescind ONE trade in Sharks history, which one would it be and why?


For the sake of keeping things interesting, if the trade would've had cap or roster implications and fallout, that has to be a consideration (eg if a trade was made to free up space for a subsequent trade, you can't just wipe the first one from the books and presume the follow-up goes off without a hitch)

If you need a little history refresher, here's a historical list of Sharks trades through this year's deadline (in reverse chronological order from most recent on backwards):

History of NHL trades by the San Jose Sharks - NHL Trade Tracker
 
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drunksage

lol light beer
Jan 13, 2007
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The Sharks' trade for Doug Wilson. The ultimate time-traveler blow-it-up scenario. :sarcasm:

But in actuality, probably Bonino+ for Moen/Huskins because Bonino is pretty good and there isn't as much butterfly effect.
 
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slocal

Dude...what?
May 4, 2010
16,110
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Central Coast CA
The Sharks' trade for Doug Wilson. The ultimate time-traveler blow-it-up scenario. :sarcasm:

But in actuality, probably Bonino+ for Moen/Huskins because Bonino is pretty good and there isn't as much butterfly effect.

But without Huskins, we would have never learned what "taking the hit to make the play" really meant (ala @SactoShark).

Plus it seems lime Jumbo got a kick out of Vern. :laugh:
 

OrrNumber4

Registered User
Jul 25, 2002
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My first instinct was to say Nolan to the Leafs, but then I looked at this:

jElt7c.jpg


Dammit.

Trade was for the pick, though, not the player. No guarantees that the Sharks draft Krejci.

What about trades not made, but would take in a heartbeat. Like Bernier, Carle and a 1st for Pronger.

If that's allowed, this would be my pick.

Probably the Thornton trade, to be honest. That set the course of the franchise in a different direction (no cups in 15 years). Reversing that trade could be the (not so) butterfly effect that leads to the Sharks winning a cup.
 

slocal

Dude...what?
May 4, 2010
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Central Coast CA
Trade was for the pick, though, not the player. No guarantees that the Sharks draft Krejci.

No guarantees the other trades work out, either. This is fantasy, much like LARPers in the park, or people pretending to be residing in the EU when they're in California.:)
 

The Nemesis

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Apr 11, 2005
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What about trades not made, but would take in a heartbeat. Like Bernier, Carle and a 1st for Pronger.

I'm not sure we can count those because trades that didn't happen area almost always some level of speculation, even if it's from multiple sources. Just as a for example, while I can't remember the exact trade, I know I remember hearing Brian Burke on the sports radio gig he does now talking about how the media loves to spin out stories of trades that "almost" happened but he remembers a widespread rumor of a deal that he allegedly didn't make and the reality was that the alleged trade was nowhere near happening and that whatever framework had been talked about wasn't really similar at all to what was thrown out as the proposed package the Leafs were offering.

Unless Doug Wilson were to come out and specifically say this trade was on the table in this exact configuration and it was turned down by one side or the other, we can't know if it was ever as close as it's been made out to be or if the price was actually what has been suggested (I, for one, remember hearing that it was Michalek rumored to be part of the ask not Bernier)
 

The Nemesis

Semper Tyrannus
Apr 11, 2005
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What about trades not made, but would take in a heartbeat. Like Bernier, Carle and a 1st for Pronger.

I'm not sure we can count those because trades that didn't happen area almost always some level of speculation, even if it's from multiple sources. Just as a for example, while I can't remember the exact trade, I know I remember hearing Brian Burke on the sports radio gig he does now talking about how the media loves to spin out stories of trades that "almost" happened but he remembers a widespread rumor of a deal that he allegedly didn't make and the reality was that the alleged trade was nowhere near happening and that whatever framework had been talked about wasn't really similar at all to what was thrown out as the proposed package the Leafs were offering.

Unless Doug Wilson were to come out and specifically say this trade was on the table in this exact configuration and it was turned down by one side or the other, we can't know if it was ever as close as it's been made out to be or if the price was actually what has been suggested (I, for one, remember hearing that it was Michalek rumored to be part of the ask not Bernier)
 

OrrNumber4

Registered User
Jul 25, 2002
15,877
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No guarantees the other trades work out, either. This is fantasy, much like LARPers in the park, or people pretending to be residing in the EU when they're in California.:)

No, but the question is what trade can you "reverse". In my hypothetical, the Sharks keep Stuart, Primeau, and Sturm (my main issue being that they don't acquire Thornton). In your situation, the Sharks keep the #63 overall. I'm not speculating further about what they do with Sturm/Primeau/Stuart; likewise, we can't assume Krejci is drafted by the Sharks. I mean, one could argue that if the Sharks wanted to draft Krejci, they would have kept the pick...plus the Sharks had already drafted Kaspar; Burke's head would have exploded with two Czech players.

I'm not sure we can count those because trades that didn't happen area almost always some level of speculation, even if it's from multiple sources. Just as a for example, while I can't remember the exact trade, I know I remember hearing Brian Burke on the sports radio gig he does now talking about how the media loves to spin out stories of trades that "almost" happened but he remembers a widespread rumor of a deal that he allegedly didn't make and the reality was that the alleged trade was nowhere near happening and that whatever framework had been talked about wasn't really similar at all to what was thrown out as the proposed package the Leafs were offering.

Unless Doug Wilson were to come out and specifically say this trade was on the table in this exact configuration and it was turned down by one side or the other, we can't know if it was ever as close as it's been made out to be or if the price was actually what has been suggested (I, for one, remember hearing that it was Michalek rumored to be part of the ask not Bernier)

I also remember hearing one of Michalek or Bernier.

Had the trade happened, I wonder how the fanbase would have taken it. I probably would have been pretty upset...I thought the world of Carle, Michalek was highly regarded, and Bernier was supposed to be the next Todd Bertuzzi. Plus, the Sharks would have had to give up a first-rounder (and I'd guess that with Pronger's cap hit, they wouldn't have been able to acquire the extra first from the Devils).

Interesting nail to think about. The Sharks definitely don't go for Rivet or Campbell...they probably don't sign Blake in the offseason. Pronger's contract probably means no Heatley. I wonder if having Pronger makes the Sharks not take Petrecki at the draft.

On the other side of things, Josh Gorges likely doesn't have an NHL future without going to Montreal. I can't see Edmonton being any better for the development of Carle or Bernier/Michalek. Anaheim almost certainly doesn't win a cup.
 

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