Hey Terry, Do Us A Favor and SELL

[Tatanka]

I would simply ask Terry what is your benchmark for franchise success and how do you apply that toward those responsible for running the team? Is it winning?Fan Attendance? Employee attendance? How do you determine the people working for you are doing their jobs?

 

[Chainshot]

Consider also asking him about his comments about applying money outside the salary cap to gain a competitive advantage and ask why their scouting staff has not returned to prior size and their analytics group is now about league average for head count.

 

[Tatanka]

Consider also asking him about his comments about applying money outside the salary cap to gain a competitive advantage and ask why their scouting staff has not returned to prior size and their analytics group is now about league average for head count.

I thought he was referring to hookers working the Marriott bar to distract players the night before games. Tem contract workers and no benefits.

 

[TehDoak]

Personally, I am way more concerned about Terry being regularly involved with the pre-draft amateur scouting meetings (per Kevyn Adams recently) than being at the table during the draft.

Or sitting at rookie camp with a clipboard and highlighter.

Eh, the guy is 73. Just have the meetings at 4 PM if you don't want him there.

I don't have a problem with him being involved in meetings or going to rookie camp.

I have a problem with him overriding the people he pays to make the decisions.

I mean, in the infamous trade back with the Chiefs, Pegula evidently really liked Mahomes, and the GM at the time (Whaley) told Terry that he didn't have to do the deal and would take Mahomes if he wanted to, and he deferred to them and they traded back. It's an example of one Terry was actually right, but it shows that he showed deference to the people who worked for him.

There have been too many examples of the Sabres making bad out of character decisions for the GM that make so much more sense with someone on the other line yelling at them to make me believe he shows the Sabres GMs the same deference.

 

[Jim Bob]

Eh, the guy is 73. Just have the meetings at 4 PM if you don't want him there.

I don't have a problem with him being involved in meetings or going to rookie camp.

I have a problem with him overriding the people he pays to make the decisions.

I mean, in the infamous trade back with the Chiefs, Pegula evidently really liked Mahomes, and the GM at the time (Whaley) told Terry that he didn't have to do the deal and would take Mahomes if he wanted to, and he deferred to them and they traded back. It's an example of one Terry was actually right, but it shows that he showed deference to the people who worked for him.

There have been too many examples of the Sabres making bad out of character decisions for the GM that make so much more sense with someone on the other line yelling at them to make me believe he shows the Sabres GMs the same deference.

With respect to the pre-draft meetings, him just being in the room could influence people sharing opinions if they are afraid to share certain ones because Terry is in the room.

That can happen all the time when a higher up is in the room. I have seen that happen regularly in my job over the years.

 

[Tatanka]

Eh, the guy is 73. Just have the meetings at 4 PM if you don't want him there.

I don't have a problem with him being involved in meetings or going to rookie camp.

I have a problem with him overriding the people he pays to make the decisions.

I mean, in the infamous trade back with the Chiefs, Pegula evidently really liked Mahomes, and the GM at the time (Whaley) told Terry that he didn't have to do the deal and would take Mahomes if he wanted to, and he deferred to them and they traded back. It's an example of one Terry was actually right, but it shows that he showed deference to the people who worked for him.

There have been too many examples of the Sabres making bad out of character decisions for the GM that make so much more sense with someone on the other line yelling at them to make me believe he shows the Sabres GMs the same deference.

It was Beane not Whaley.

 

[Jim Bob]

It was Beane not Whaley.

The Mahomes/Tre White draft was the one where McDermott was the head coach and Whaley was the GM. Whaley, and his guys, were let go shortly after that draft and then Beane was hired because he was McDermott's guy from Carolina.

 

[Tatanka]

The Mahomes/Tre White draft was the one where McDermott was the head coach and Whaley was the GM. Whaley, and his guys, were let go shortly after that draft and then Beane was hired because he was McDermott's guy from Carolina.

I stand corrected thank you.

 

[truthbluth]

With respect to the pre-draft meetings, him just being in the room could influence people sharing opinions if they are afraid to share certain ones because Terry is in the room.

That can happen all the time when a higher up is in the room. I have seen that happen regularly in my job over the years.

I started disinvited itself from some meetings once I realized that my simple presence was having an effect on whether certain junior engineers would speak up. Like I asked, “Why don’t Ben and Manya ever talk?” And I was told, “oh they do, just not when you’re there.”

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

 

[sabremike]

 

[The Blunder Years]

Reward failure.

That is what this organization does. Looking back, I can’t believe we gave this clown Granato a multi-year extension when his only contribution to the team has been extending our drought. This is the highest level of hockey in the world, yet they can’t even show up prepared for half their games. Pro athletes making MILLIONS of dollars are playing like they are in weekend beer league.

Our goalies and team get pushed around and there are no consequences on the ice! I know we’re young, but no one has any respect for themselves or their teammates. You might get gently shoved at worst.

Win puck battles? Win face offs? f*** doing that when you can pass the puck around the perimeter the whole game until you piss away possession.

Cherry on top is seeing our former players leave and thrive in legitimate organizations and now recently the comments from Mitts and KO. It’s utterly embarrassing.

I’ve been patient with Adams as he has built up a lot of young talent. But I sincerely question his ability when he employs f***ing asshat coaches that are somehow fireproof? He is out of his f***ing mind thinking that the best thing for the team is to stick with Granato and co.

Oh yeah and Matt Ellis. Why do we have a career plug running our power play. He probably hasn’t even been on a power play since he was a teenager. How does he still have a job after years of running the same weak and pathetic unit?

It’s scary when you realize that all these issues predate our current regime. Botteril? Murray? Housley? Bylsma? Krueger? The same issues. The only constant is Pegula.

This organization has no f***ing clue what they’re doing and this year I’ve completely lost interest in what used to be my favorite thing in the world.

f*** you Terry Pegula.

 

[Fjordy]

Happy Birthday! Please sell!

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

I don't even care if he sells and moves the team at this point. I can get my life back. This team is a drug for me, i need an intervention.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

I’ve been patient with Adams as he has built up a lot of young talent. But I sincerely question his ability when he employs f***ing asshat coaches that are somehow fireproof? He is out of his f***ing mind thinking that the best thing for the team is to stick with Granato and co.

Oh yeah and Matt Ellis. Why do we have a career plug running our power play. He probably hasn’t even been on a power play since he was a teenager. How does he still have a job after years of running the same weak and pathetic unit?

It’s scary when you realize that all these issues predate our current regime. Botteril? Murray? Housley? Bylsma? Krueger? The same issues. The only constant is Pegula.

This organization has no f***ing clue what they’re doing and this year I’ve completely lost interest in what used to be my favorite thing in the world.

f*** you Terry Pegula.

How much of this is because Kevyn Adams is mostly obeying orders. The guy has no business as a GM with his experience. Maybe he will get an AGM job in another city. Pegula gives him the chance of a lifetime and Adams is playing ball most days. But you have to wonder if the opportunity in Buffalo is toxic to long-term careers for executives. Everybody who leaves is lucky to find a job, and most have to take a huge step down in salary and position.



,

 

[The Blunder Years]

How much of this is because Kevyn Adams is mostly obeying orders. The guy has no business as a GM with his experience. Maybe he will get an AGM job in another city. Pegula gives him the chance of a lifetime and Adams is playing ball most days. But you have to wonder if the opportunity in Buffalo is toxic to long-term careers for executives. Everybody who leaves is lucky to find a job, and most have to take a huge step down in salary and position.



,

That’s because teams hiring GM’s or coaches target hires that have had success.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

That’s because teams hiring GM’s or coaches target hires that have had success.

Or real experience. What did Tim Murray do before the Sabres? Jason Botterill. Etc. Most of the people he hired had limited or no experience. Botts was an AGM so maybe he was ready but no one above him. They failed, partially because of that and now their careers have stalled and are being rebuilt. Let's just Kevyn Adams and Granato are let go. My guess is Adams will be lucky to get an AGM job elsewhere. Granato? Not even sure he gets a bench job in the American Hockey League.

 

[ForsbergMoDo21]

In better news I dropped enough lbs to fit into my gear and made it back to the ice. But given how sore I’ve been since, I might only be able to show up to play once a week. Guess that means I could play for the big club?

 

[The Blunder Years]

Or real experience. What did Tim Murray do before the Sabres? Jason Botterill. Etc. Most of the people he hired had limited or no experience. Botts was an AGM so maybe he was ready but no one above him. They failed, partially because of that and now their careers have stalled and are being rebuilt. Let's just Kevyn Adams and Granato are let go. My guess is Adams will be lucky to get an AGM job elsewhere. Granato? Not even sure he gets a bench job in the American Hockey League.

Oh 100% agree that our hires have backfired because they were all inexperienced hires. Bylsma is the odd duck, since he had head coaching experience though.

 

[sabremike]

"bUt ThE bILlS"

 

[toddkaz]

"bUt ThE bILlS"

Unfortunately I am a Broncos fan. The last 10 years have been rough.

 

[Gabrielor]

Unfortunately I am a Broncos fan. The last 10 years have been rough.

49ers fan. No SB wins since 94, and watched 3 loses as an adult, all were close.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Oh 100% agree that our hires have backfired because they were all inexperienced hires. Bylsma is the odd duck, since he had head coaching experience though.

Yeah and Bylsma was one of the few tough coaches. Remember when he benched Reinhart for a whole game

 

[joshjull]

There has been plenty of smoke that Terry has involved himself in various player personnel decisions over the years, as well. From the Leino/Ehrhoff signings to the Taylor Hall signing to the decision to not move Girgensons at the deadline this year.

I’m sure he has been involved with various decisions, especially when big money contracts were in play. Something almost every owner would be involved in. But the paranoia that he’s making all sorts of decisions for the GM’s is silly.

Bringing up Hall is a great example of the silliness. That was Krueger’s influence all day. Adams spent the negotiations with Hall’s agent to get him down from a 2yr deal to a 1yr deal. Something Pegula wouldn’t care about if he was hell bent on acquiring him. Pegula’s main contribution was making a stupid statement that his signing makes us a Cup contender. Something a dorky fanboy of the team would say. He certainly wasn't the driving force behind Hall coming here or being targeted in the first place.

And I disagree that Karmanos is the real GM of the team and Adams is the Pres of Hockey Ops. Adams runs the ship like a GM in most places does. He just is more open to input from all members of his staff than some. and perhaps most, GMs are.

I don’t know what an “real GM” is supposed to be. But I do know Adams runs the ship like some President of hockey ops do. We’ll have to agree to disgree on this one.

But I think your insistence that Adams is not a POHO is largely about the misguided belief some on here have that a POHO will magically fix things. That they would keep the owner in check or act as a buffer for the GM. If Pegula is truly the interfering owner who meddles to the extent some on here believe. It’s pretty naive to think anyone in his employ will stop him from doing so.

Karmanos gave a lot more than “input” Adams was open to. He was essentially the architect of the rebuilding of the organization. It was him, not Adams, who did a top. To bottom review of the organization. Then developed a plan/ideas on how to rebuild or fix what needed fixing throughout.

 

[Jim Bob]

I’m sure he has been involved with various decisions, especially when big money contracts were in play. Something almost every owner would be involved in. But the paranoia that he’s making all sorts of decisions for the GM’s is silly.

Bringing up Hall is a great example of the silliness. That was Krueger’s influence all day. Adams spent the negotiations with Hall’s agent to get him down from a 2yr deal to a 1yr deal. Something Pegula wouldn’t care about if he was hell bent on acquiring him. Pegula’s main contribution was making a stupid statement that his signing makes us a Cup contender. Something a dorky fanboy of the team would say. He certainly wasn't the driving force behind Hall coming here or being targeted in the first place.


I don’t know what an “real GM” is supposed to be. But I do know Adams runs the ship like some President of hockey ops do. We’ll have to agree to disgree on this one.

But I think your insistence that Adams is not a POHO is largely about the misguided belief some on here have that a POHO will magically fix things. That they would keep the owner in check or act as a buffer for the GM. If Pegula is truly the interfering owner who meddles to the extent some on here believe. It’s pretty naive to think anyone in his employ will stop him from doing so.

Karmanos gave a lot more than “input” Adams was open to. He was essentially the architect of the rebuilding of the organization. It was him, not Adams, who did a top. To bottom review of the organization. Then developed a plan/ideas on how to rebuild or fix what needed fixing throughout.

A "real GM" is the person in the organization that other GMs call to get the final word on a trade or an agent works through for final decisions on signings.

We saw in the Embedded episode that Danny Briere (the "real GM" of the Flyers) was talking only with Adams when making the EJ trade. I would expect that if Adams were a POHO and Karmanos were the "real GM", then Briere would have communicated with Karmanos. If POHO's make trades, then it would have been Adams talking to Keith Jones to get the trade done in your scenario.

But, it was Briere, who has Keith Jones as a POHO in Philly, talking to Adams.

And we will just have to agree to disagree that Terry Pegula's level of involvement is not on the upper end of the spectrum across the league.