Equipment: Helmet and CSA

[Prov1X]

Have a question regarding helmets and the CSA certification. Trying to find out if it is possible to get a modification CSA approved on a helmet. By rule, all players must use a CSA approved helmet, and any additions/modifications will void the CSA (even stickers are considered a modification). What I am trying to do is get permission for my son to be able to wear his www.uhwk.com (camera similar to a go-pro, but smaller).
There is no rule the prohibits the camera, but the association have said that it can not void the CSA or the manufactures warranty, which I find funny because team stickers and numbers are not approved either. Just trying to see if anyone might have been able to get a modification approved or might have a contact that might be able to provide some advice. Currently using a bauer re akt, but willing to go to another helmet that this camera would not void the warranty.

Thanks in advance!

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[Beville]

Well...

I used a Go Pro on my helmet for the CARHA tourney earlier this year and they were pretty strict on stuff being CSA approved and they didn't bat an eyelid at me using it...

Although saying that, I've never known anyone to pull someone up on modifications to helmets.

 

[Prov1X]

Thanks for your input, I feel that the association is using it as an excuse because there is no rule that prevents it. I don't want to really cause an issue, as he plays AAA and don't want to cause issues for him in the future. I could really push the issue, because I am sure that 75-90% of the helmet stickers used are not approved!

 

[MeHateHe]

Hockey Canada's Rule 3.6 (b) specifically says that any alteration to the helmet destroys the certification, so yeah, there's a rule that says you can't do it.

I'm no engineer but it seems to me that helmets are designed to protect your kid's head, and that altering it in any way would risk that protection. Why anyone would do that to get some cool video footage is beyond me.

 

[Prov1X]

Hockey Canada's Rule 3.6 (b) specifically says that any alteration to the helmet destroys the certification, so yeah, there's a rule that says you can't do it.

I'm no engineer but it seems to me that helmets are designed to protect your kid's head, and that altering it in any way would risk that protection. Why anyone would do that to get some cool video footage is beyond me.

To each their own, the video can actually be used as a great teaching tool, but not here to defend why I am inquiring about having it approved.
Under that rule, even stickers are guilty of voiding the certification but not enforced.

 

[MeHateHe]

Hockey Canada hasn't worried about stickers on helmets for more than 20 years. Even then, referees were not being asked to prevent players with stickers on their helmets from playing, but rather we were asked to report it to the league president. The original justification for including stickers on the list of banned modifications was the argument that the glue weakened the plastic and compromised the integrity of the helmet. I'm not aware of a single incident to back up that argument and we long believed that it was something the manufacturers suggested to the CSA that was more about keeping people from covering up their logos than it was about keeping the helmet intact.

More to the point: there is no comparison between altering a helmet by applying a thin plastic sticker and altering a helmet by attaching a camera. One could fundamentally impact the performance of the helmet and one does not. I guarantee you if I saw a camera attached to a player in a game I was refereeing, the player would not see the ice.

With a greater understanding of head injuries, I am routinely stunned at the cavalier attitude people have toward head protection. Helmets are too loose, straps are not properly done up, face protection is usually too loose as well. In a fast contact sport, some injuries are always going to happen. But taking steps that limit your equipment's ability to fully protect yourself is just stupid

 

[LarryO]

If the camera is just strapped on, can one say that the helmet is being modified? Are you planning on cutting or drilling holes in it, applying glue or paint that might soften the plastic, or removing any of its parts?

 

[Prov1X]

If the camera is just strapped on, can one say that the helmet is being modified? Are you planning on cutting or drilling holes in it, applying glue or paint that might soften the plastic, or removing any of its parts?

The camera is secured using the existing screws and existing screw holes used to attach the visor or mask. What you do is unscrew the screws, add rubber band with the mask screw and the camera is secured with the band. There is no drilling, no glue, nothing other than an elastic band.

 

[Prov1X]

Hockey Canada hasn't worried about stickers on helmets for more than 20 years. Even then, referees were not being asked to prevent players with stickers on their helmets from playing, but rather we were asked to report it to the league president. The original justification for including stickers on the list of banned modifications was the argument that the glue weakened the plastic and compromised the integrity of the helmet. I'm not aware of a single incident to back up that argument and we long believed that it was something the manufacturers suggested to the CSA that was more about keeping people from covering up their logos than it was about keeping the helmet intact.

More to the point: there is no comparison between altering a helmet by applying a thin plastic sticker and altering a helmet by attaching a camera. One could fundamentally impact the performance of the helmet and one does not. I guarantee you if I saw a camera attached to a player in a game I was refereeing, the player would not see the ice.

With a greater understanding of head injuries, I am routinely stunned at the cavalier attitude people have toward head protection. Helmets are too loose, straps are not properly done up, face protection is usually too loose as well. In a fast contact sport, some injuries are always going to happen. But taking steps that limit your equipment's ability to fully protect yourself is just stupid

So if it hasn't been enforced for the past 20 years, why has the rule not been updated? Why is it still mentioned on the manufacturers websites? Forget about the stickers, technically if you take off a Bauer facemark off of a Bauer helmet and replace it with a Reebok visor, it also voids the CSA. I am sorry that you have an issue with my son wanting to wear his camera, it's a free country, you are entitled to your opinion! He has worn it for many tournaments from Montreal to Boston to Toronto without issue, many officials have commented on it and asked him questions, while others have not even noticed it. And has never once been asked to take it off, I have asked permission for all tournaments and no one has said no, most have asked to see the video!

Actually I would argue that the helmet does not alter the helmet whatsoever, it uses the same screws and existing screw holes to attach two rubber bands which hold the camera in place. Nothing is permanent and can be easily taken off if need be. It's also in a location that would not change the balance of the head, as well it is very light. No where near as heavy as a go pro.

I actually don't take a "cavalier" attitude with my son's equipment, I am completely aware of the risks of hockey, his gear is well maintained and worn correctly, but thanks for your concern.

 

[AIREAYE]

Great discussion here. I noticed that NHL referees are wearing that type of helmet cam in games. Obviously NHL doesn't equal governing hockey bodies, but perhaps looking at that direction to see what the allowances/differences are?

Interested to see where this goes.

 

[Prov1X]

I would have no issue if I felt that it was indeed a safety issue, but personally, and have talked to another parent whose son has one, it's more about the coaches not wanting them. I guess that they don't want any evidence of something being said or done. If the coach doesn't want him to wear it, that's fine and I would respect that but don't use the excuse of "it's a league rule" when it's not.

 

[Jim Bob]

It all depends on how sensitive refs, coaches, and parents are.

I've seen a few kids with the Go Pro mount on their helmets at our rink.

The worst case scenario with your set up is that a ref makes him sit out until it's removed if he tried to wear it during a game.

If he's just wearing it to practice (as long as the coach is OK. Many won't be for a variety of reasons) and skate & shoot, then I doubt there will be any issue.

 

[Prov1X]

It all depends on how sensitive refs, coaches, and parents are.

I've seen a few kids with the Go Pro mount on their helmets at our rink.

The worst case scenario with your set up is that a ref makes him sit out until it's removed if he tried to wear it during a game.

If he's just wearing it to practice (as long as the coach is OK. Many won't be for a variety of reasons) and skate & shoot, then I doubt there will be any issue.

I've seen the go pros a few times, but mostly in practices. With how this one is mounted, it takes less than 5 seconds to remove it (and if they were really picky, and had to remove the elastics, it would take 3 minutes to remove the face mask screws and put them back in).

I did get a long form letter response from bauer, but they didn't tell me if the current set up was considered a modification or not

 

[Jim Bob]

I've seen the go pros a few times, but mostly in practices. With how this one is mounted, it takes less than 5 seconds to remove it (and if they were really picky, and had to remove the elastics, it would take 3 minutes to remove the face mask screws and put them back in).

I did get a long form letter response from bauer, but they didn't tell me if the current set up was considered a modification or not

It's not up to Bauer.

It's Hockey Canada rules and at the discretion of the refs if it's during a game.

If I was the coach, I wouldn't let a kid wear it in a game if there was any question. I wouldn't want to have to mess with that on the bench if a ref said take it off mid-game.

It's bad enough when we have to have a parent run and get a mouthguard because the kid doesn't like wearing one.