Post-Game Talk: Hellebuyck has arrived: Jets win 4-2

[Hunter368]

I hope people are complaining after a win....while the Jets didn't play their A game nor did multi players we fought out a win and two valuable points. Nucks are not projected to be a top team but they've started out well so no one should of predicted an easy win.

Any talk of buff being a forward is plain silly. If you don't like him as a D then just say trade him. No one will want to pay a winger nearly 8 million per year that produces 35 points a season.

 

[ps241]

Yea I know I am getting into the debate and some posts might come across as negative but big picture after the first two games if you would have told me we were coming home at .500 I would have planned out the parade route. Hang in there for now while we are struggling and hopefully we keep getting the goaltending. In a perfect world I would love to be having an embarrassment of riches debate in January about which goalie we should start because they have both earned the net.

I know, crazy talk right?

 

[Joe Hallenback]

The old "our team has x and this other team has x so it's not a problem" trick.

Does St. Louis have a Brandon Tanev equivalent with more ice time than Tarasenko? Are their penalty killing specialist bottom 6ers allowing 175 PK shot attempts per hour?

Its not a trick its a point. People too much emphasis on bottom 6 players. Tanev plays 11 minutes total ice time on average. Maybe a little too much but in the end it isn't that much a factor on whether the Jets will win or lose. You win or lose on your top players backs. As long as you get some average goaltending and your better players play better then the other teams better players you are probably going to win.

The mewling about some bottom player is just window dressing for those that feel the need to complain even when teams are winning

 

[Blue Shakehead]

Its not a trick its a point. People too much emphasis on bottom 6 players. Tanev plays 11 minutes total ice time on average. Maybe a little too much but in the end it isn't that much a factor on whether the Jets will win or lose. You win or lose on your top players backs. As long as you get some average goaltending and your better players play better then the other teams better players you are probably going to win.

The mewling about some bottom player is just window dressing for those that feel the need to complain even when teams are winning

Its not a point, its a logical fallacy. If Brandon Tanev is on the top line and we bench Laine but we win, does that make it a good decision? No. And if the Blues put Thorburn on the top line but bench Tarasenko and they win, does that mean we should consider it? No.

The bottom 6 accounts for the biggest goal differential on the team this year and the previous 2 years, including the highly publicized special teams issues. If you don't think our bottom 6 is a problem, you're either not paying attention or you're spending too much time checking how many teams are winning despite making terrible decisions to justify our shit decisions. Judge the process, not the result.

 

[puck stoppa]

Yea I know I am getting into the debate and some posts might come across as negative but big picture after the first two games if you would have told me we were coming home at .500 I would have planned out the parade route. Hang in there for now while we are struggling and hopefully we keep getting the goaltending. In a perfect world I would love to be having an embarrassment of riches debate in January about which goalie we should start because they have both earned the net.

I know, crazy talk right?

I did tell you they would beat the Oil and then come home .500! And no one believed me lol
While I'm tire pumping, I may have been one of the few helly supporters in the summer, add him to my Poolman prediction and I'm rolling!
So to ride the momentum I predict the jets win 19 in a row

 

[Dayofthedogs]

The old "our team has x and this other team has x so it's not a problem" trick.

Does St. Louis have a Brandon Tanev equivalent with more ice time than Tarasenko? Are their penalty killing specialist bottom 6ers allowing 175 PK shot attempts per hour?

Sample size. Wasn't it you who wanted to throw out an entire season of PP time because of sample size when talking about Adam Lowry?

 

[Dayofthedogs]

Its not a point, its a logical fallacy. If Brandon Tanev is on the top line and we bench Laine but we win, does that make it a good decision? No. And if the Blues put Thorburn on the top line but bench Tarasenko and they win, does that mean we should consider it? No.

The bottom 6 accounts for the biggest goal differential on the team this year and the previous 2 years, including the highly publicized special teams issues. If you don't think our bottom 6 is a problem, you're either not paying attention or you're spending too much time checking how many teams are winning despite making terrible decisions to justify our **** decisions. Judge the process, not the result.

That first paragraph isn't even close to reality.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

That first paragraph isn't even close to reality.

I was actually going to use a Chipmunk instead of Brandon Tanev in my example, which isn't reality (but really, how far off is it?) but the point would still stand. There is no requirement to be realistic when using fake examples to demonstrate logical fallacies.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

Sample size. Wasn't it you who wanted to throw out an entire season of PP time because of sample size when talking about Adam Lowry?

Ohhhhh, this sounds like a GOTCHA! Which would be much more interesting if you weren't the guy who thought that Lowry's 130 minutes with 4 legit NHL superstars were more revealing of his offensive skill than his other 2900 minutes of impotence he's had in the NHL. Are you a stats professor too?

 

[Puckatron 3000]

Ohhhhh, this sounds like a GOTCHA! Which would be much more interesting if you weren't the guy who thought that Lowry's 130 minutes with 4 legit NHL superstars were more revealing of his offensive skill than his other 2900 minutes of impotence he's had in the NHL. Are you a stats professor too?

The quoted statement is a logical fallacy, called a red herring.
Also an ad homniem.
So that's two logical fallacies.

 

[winnipegger]

I don't see myself as "complaining", I am pointing out what I think is wrong with the strategy that the team is employing. The worst thing you can do if you want to improve is to think that the result is more important than each individual decision that you make. Spotting mistakes in a victory is how greatness is achieved. You don't just say "well I won so everything I did must have been correct". In this case, having zero scoring talent on 50% of your roster is a mistake despite the fact that it barely eked out a victory.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

The quoted statement is a logical fallacy, called a red herring.
Also an ad homniem.
So that's two logical fallacies.

You're 50% correct.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

20 shots vs Vancouver. 20 shots. Vancouver. 20 shots.
PauMau: "Little's line was good. Can't expect your best line to drive the bus every night." 5v5TOI: Scheifele 18min, Little 12min.
"These last two games are a good start to creating a new habit of how we need to play to win" - Tyler Myers. Please no. Getting outshot all the time is not a good habit.
Scheifele 23:39. Wheeler 21:33. Lowry 14:23. Perreault 14:13. Tanev 13:48. Laine 13:46.

Winning is nice. .500 record is not nice. And the record is flattering at this point. PauMau doesn't instill confidence.

Update:

Goals	16-17	17-18
5v5 w/ Scheifele,Little	107-93	8-6
5v5 w/o Scheifele,Little	49-71	1-5
PP and SH	58-71	4-5
other (4v4, 3v3, EN)	32-20	1-1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

If you actually smack yourself in the face each time your face is going to blow up like a puffer fish.

 

[Flair Hay]

Ohhhhh, this sounds like a GOTCHA! Which would be much more interesting if you weren't the guy who thought that Lowry's 130 minutes with 4 legit NHL superstars were more revealing of his offensive skill than his other 2900 minutes of impotence he's had in the NHL. Are you a stats professor too?

 

[JetsFan815]

Its not a trick its a point. People too much emphasis on bottom 6 players. Tanev plays 11 minutes total ice time on average. Maybe a little too much but in the end it isn't that much a factor on whether the Jets will win or lose. You win or lose on your top players backs. As long as you get some average goaltending and your better players play better then the other teams better players you are probably going to win.

The mewling about some bottom player is just window dressing for those that feel the need to complain even when teams are winning

Alternatively those who are complaining about the bottom 6 see a group that is getting outshot, outchanced and outscored by ridiculous margins and don't see that as a recipe for sustainable success.

Everyone on the bottom 6 other than Lowry is 40% or below in Corsi, their relative numbers are double-digits worse than the team as a whole. It is not like they are a few points in the negative, other than Lowry they are getting crushed out there (and I am not sure how long Lowry stays where he is now that Tanev is on his line). Even if you don't care about scoring from the bottom 6, they shouldn't be losing the territorial battle to the extent they are

These guys play at least ~14 mins a night 5 on 5. Your argument is basically saying "Let's write off nearly 25% of the game and leave it to the top 6 to make up for all that". Why any fan wouldn't wanna use those minutes to good use is beyond me.

Playoffs for bubble teams are decided by 1-4 points. If you don't think that over 82 games a bottom 6 is not the difference between making or missing the playoffs then I don't know what to tell you

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Missed the first.
Fell asleep mid way through the third.
My only observations are it was nice to see essentially a stress free game.
Until we string together more consistency I’m not ready to anoint Maurice coach of the year, but I’d gladly eat crow.
The Byfuglien situation is interesting

Lucky you fell asleep when you did then. Last 10 min were not stress free.

 

[Howard Chuck]

I did tell you they would beat the Oil and then come home .500! And no one believed me lol
While I'm tire pumping, I may have been one of the few helly supporters in the summer, add him to my Poolman prediction and I'm rolling!
So to ride the momentum I predict the jets win 19 in a row

I'm holding you to that!

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

This team is a 3rd line away from being really good. We just don't have the depth right now. We cannot afford to play our 4th line 6-7 minutes a game. Lowry and Tanev's line cannot play 13-15 minutes a game, that's absurd. Laine having the 4th least minutes on the team is inexcusable.

Nice to see Helle having a good start to the season though, I still have confidence he can be a solid NHL starter.

If Lowry is as good a 3C as some people (especially Maurice) seem to think then he should be able to carry a 3rd line with a couple of talented young wingers who can score.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

You're 50% correct.

Nice! That's better than usual for me.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

i only saw the 3rd peiod (a bit odd since i'm in Toronto and that's f'ing late), but...

Guessing we can now stop the "Stulikov" thing, right? he's looking pretty nice on our blue line. a VERY solid bottom 3 D-man.
Laine looked all-around good.
Jets sure love their d-zone misadventures and errant passes, don't they?

No, I like it. Just be aware that Stulikov is a lot better than Stu ever was.

I'm happy with him so far. He had some ups and downs during the pre-season but seems to be getting steadily better. He was solid last night.

 

[ffh]

Alternatively those who are complaining about the bottom 6 see a group that is getting outshot, outchanced and outscored by ridiculous margins and don't see that as a recipe for sustainable success.

Everyone on the bottom 6 other than Lowry is 40% or below in Corsi, their relative numbers are double-digits worse than the team as a whole. It is not like they are a few points in the negative, other than Lowry they are getting crushed out there (and I am not sure how long Lowry stays where he is now that Tanev is on his line). Even if you don't care about scoring from the bottom 6, they shouldn't be losing the territorial battle to the extent they are

These guys play at least ~14 mins a night 5 on 5. Your argument is basically saying "Let's write off nearly 25% of the game and leave it to the top 6 to make up for all that". Why any fan wouldn't wanna use those minutes to good use is beyond me.

Playoffs for bubble teams are decided by 1-4 points. If you don't think that over 82 games a bottom 6 is not the difference between making or missing the playoffs then I don't know what to tell you

go to the oilers board. they are saying the same about their bottom 6 and even worse. and the oilers are 2nd favorites to win cup. for that matter most fan bases are unhappy with their bottom 6. connor was forcast to be on team. Hendricks and armia will be back on bottom 6 replacing the 2 weakest players any day now. we will be fine. Hendricks armia and connor should be in our bottom 6 over tanev petan and dano. Hendricks and armia will have to do for now. hopefully soon connor can join them in the bottom 6.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Lucky you fell asleep when you did then. Last 10 min were not stress free.

Oh lol
That’s good then

 

[Dayofthedogs]

Ohhhhh, this sounds like a GOTCHA! Which would be much more interesting if you weren't the guy who thought that Lowry's 130 minutes with 4 legit NHL superstars were more revealing of his offensive skill than his other 2900 minutes of impotence he's had in the NHL. Are you a stats professor too?

Thought so

 

[jetsforever]

Don't shoot me, I am firmly of the belief that Buff should stay D.
However, I would be open to the idea of seeing him at F for one game if it ends up happening - think of all he brings offensively, and if he had a defensive lapse there would be two other defencemen on the ice to cover. Plus he could help make the line stronger defensively.

 

[cbcwpg]

Don't shoot me, I am firmly of the belief that Buff should stay D.
However, I would be open to the idea of seeing him at F for one game if it ends up happening - think of all he brings offensively, and if he had a defensive lapse there would be two other defencemen on the ice to cover. Plus he could help make the line stronger defensively.

Putting Buff at forward will only accomplish one thing... it will get him to waive his NMC 2 seconds before he goes into Chevy's office and demands to be traded.

Do people actually think Buff signed here long term without some kind of gentleman's agreement that he will not be made into a forward.

I would still rather have bad Buff on defense then really unhappy Buff at forward.