Helene Elliott: The high-flying Ducks just aren't on our radar

[Ducksforcup]

Actually, in this case - no.

Disney only paid $50 Million expansion fee. Back then, they normally would have had to pay an additional $25 Million to LA for territorial infringement on the LA Kings property (ie, $75 Million total).

The NHL was wanting to get in on Disney's marketing machine, so this was actually a good move to bring them in to the fold. This is the "biggest" reason Anaheim got a team. They they (the NHL) later got stubborn and did not then want to listen to Disney's marketing ideas was one one of the reasons why Disney eventually pulled out (because we all know how good the NHL's marketing has been up until this year.... ).

Anyways - for Anaheim, the NHL cut it's expansion fee in half for Disney, so instead of $50 Million for the NHL and $25 Million for the Kings, it was only $25 Million each.

The NHL could easily have picked another market and taken all $50 Million for the entire league.

Well, I'm glad they didn't. Forever grateful!

 

[Jazz]

The 90's expansion was one of the stupidest things to ever happen to the NHL. Complete cash grab by the owners and totally diluted the on-ice product. NHL teams in ridiculous markets, American dollars taking over my favourite sport, yeah I loved that.

I probably would've preferred if the "failing economic system" had failed. There will always be great hockey being played in Canada.

Statistics and the fall of the Eastern bloc shoot down your theory of "diluted on-ice product"

Think about it.

• Back in the 80s:
  • 22 players/team x 21 teams x ~80% Canadians = ~370 Canadians out of about 460 total players
• Now:
  • 22 players/team x 30 teams x ~55% Canadians = ~365 Canadians out of about 660 total players.

So the absolute # of Canadians roughly the same as before - so no dilution affect there, unless you are going to argue that Canadians are not as talented as back then.

The total number of non-Canadians has risen by about 200, but since the 80s we've seen

• the fall of the Eastern bloc and the influx of many players from
  • Russia,
  • Czech Republic,
  • Slovakia,
  • Belarus,
  • Latvia,
  • Kazakhstan,
  • Ukraine etc
• The United States also has increasing numbers of players in the league, especially with their youth development program
• Finland has also since developed into a hockey power (they were not before) and have increased representation in the NHL
• Germany has more NHLers than ever before
• and the league also has representation from 2nd tier nations like
  • France (an elite goalie in Huet),
  • Austria (Vanek is going to be a stud, if not already),
  • Slovenia (Calder candidate in Kopitar),
  • Norway (Thoresen and Tolefssen) etc

The roughly 200 increase in non-Canadians since the 80s has been pretty good talent.

Conclusion - Hardly any DILUTION, and Expansion was neccessary and came at the right time. In fact we were only catching up - if other leagues (NBA, NFL, MLB) can support about 30 teams with mostly American talent, the NHL can easily support 30ish with it's bigger international pool to draw on.

 

[The Slap Shop]

Anaheim wins a cup the fans will come. Look at the Angels Attendence for an example. They would never draw good numbers and they won a title and they get 40-50K a game.

 

[Static]

Anaheim wins a cup the fans will come. Look at the Angels Attendence for an example. They would never draw good numbers and they won a title and they get 40-50K a game.

Success usually is followed by people...it is the way of the world.

 

[Maken*]

Conclusion - Hardly any DILUTION, and Expansion was neccessary and came at the right time. In fact we were only catching up - if other leagues (NBA, NFL, MLB) can support about 30 teams with mostly American talent, the NHL can easily support 30ish with it's bigger international pool to draw on.

While I won't use any fancy colours to "shoot down your theory", many of those points are based on your interpretation.

I will say that your comparison to the other major North American sports leagues is asinine. Hockey is an expensive sport to play, the others.... not so much. "Think about it".

 

[Sotnos]

While I won't use any fancy colours to "shoot down your theory", many of those points are based on your interpretation.

How are facts and figures based on interpretation?

 

[chiavsfan]

There will always be great hockey being played in Canada.

How many Cups have Canadian teams won lately?? Zero since 1993? Thought so

 

[Jazz]

While I won't use any fancy colours to "shoot down your theory", many of those points are based on your interpretation.

I'll repeat what Santos asked "How are facts and figures based on interpretation?" As for the colors (I would hardly call red and blue "fancy"), I've learned on forums that presentation helps to forward a point - simple.

I will say that your comparison to the other major North American sports leagues is asinine. Hockey is an expensive sport to play, the others.... not so much. "Think about it".

I have thought about it - Hockey is an expensive sport to play, yes, but that is irrelevant to the discussion about dilution of the product. But I'll play along - it seems you are focusing in on the US, since there are less hockey players there than for the other sports. I am focussing on the world market (which does not add significantly to the other sports (except basketball)), which compensates for the shortfall you are pointing at.

Either way it does not matter that there are lower absolute hockey players vs the other sports, what matters is the relative quality of the players at the top-end.

 

[Maken*]

How are facts and figures based on interpretation?

The interpretation is that players that have been added are of the same, or higher, quality of the players that existed.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

How many Cups have Canadian teams won lately?? Zero since 1993? Thought so

and yet, every Canadian city has sold-out their arenas this season....a far cry from most of the cities in the U.S

 

[Habsfunk]

The how do you explain the Czech Republic and Slovakia as elite hockey powers?

Uhhh... http://images.google.ca/images?q=czech republic snow

 

[Jazz]

The interpretation is that players that have been added are of the same, or higher, quality of the players that existed.

Well at least you are not arguing the numbers....

I've shown that the

1. total number of Canadains is roughly the same as before, and
2. illustrated how countries of the former Eastern Bloc, Finland, USA etc are producing more elite players that were not in the league in the 1980s (especially since Soviet players were not allowed in the NHL back then) to make up for the difference in the increased roster spots.

So it seems it comes down to 2 things

• Either you don't think that the increased elite European and American make up the difference in quality, and/or
• you don't think that the Canadain players are as talented as before

I am curious which of these you fall under (or both).

 

[Jazz]

Uhhh... http://images.google.ca/images?q=czech republic snow

What is your point of showing pictures of snow in most of their mountainous areas?

Also, when did I say it never snows? My point is that there no "winter wonderland' winters (including frozen lakes and rivers) like you'd imagine in Canada, Sweden, Finland, Russia etc that most people associate with a so-called 'hockey climate'....

In their big cities (like Prague), it only snows here and there (average less than 1mm per day!) and the temp is usually daily above 0°C, even in December.
http://weather.msn.com/daily_averages.aspx?wealocations=wc:EZXX0012&weai=12
http://weather.msn.com/daily_averages.aspx?wealocations=wc:LOXX0001&weai=1

I've been there during the winter to witness this - have you?