NHL: Hedman current ranking in all time Swede list?

Gubbhornet

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Dec 5, 2019
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Hopefully Hedman stills has many more years, but given what he has won/shown so far, how would you rank him in the All time greatest Swede list?

Which players would you rank above him?
 

VictorLustig

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Feb 8, 2012
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Hedman has benefitted from playing on a great team, unlike many other top Swedes. Still rank Karlsson ahead, that could change though. Sundin and Zetterberg are also ahead right now in my book, perhaps Hedman can narrow that gap. Won't come close to Forsberg or Lidström though.
 

Gubbhornet

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Dec 5, 2019
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Hedman has benefitted from playing on a great team, unlike many other top Swedes. Still rank Karlsson ahead, that could change though. Sundin and Zetterberg are also ahead right now in my book, perhaps Hedman can narrow that gap. Won't come close to Forsberg or Lidström though.

I'm not disagreeing with your Lidström statement, but if you look at the merits Lidström had at Hedmans current age, Hedman might actually be ahead! (assuming TB 2nd cup)

(But no, 6 more norris wins won't happen)
 

Your old Jofa helmet

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Oct 2, 2006
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He surely passed Calle Johansson for a fourth all-time place among D. I would put him above Karlsson already but it's gonna be tough to best Salming or Lidstrom
 

dtown77

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Dec 29, 2005
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I'm not disagreeing with your Lidström statement, but if you look at the merits Lidström had at Hedmans current age, Hedman might actually be ahead! (assuming TB 2nd cup)

(But no, 6 more norris wins won't happen)

I wish there was a thumbs down button
 
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Jahara

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Sep 25, 2018
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1. Lidström
2. Forsberg
3. Sundin
4. Lundqvist
5. Salming
6. Tumba
7. Karlsson
8. Hedman
9. Alfredsson
10. Zetterberg

Maybe something like this.
Pretty good shot. I would probably have Kenta Nilsson on the list and maybe Håkan Loob. Sven Tumba should perhaps be after Ulf Sterner but guys from that era is quite hard to compare with the modern players.
 

Gubbhornet

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Dec 5, 2019
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Pretty good shot. I would probably have Kenta Nilsson on the list and maybe Håkan Loob. Sven Tumba should perhaps be after Ulf Sterner but guys from that era is quite hard to compare with the modern players.

Tumba and Sterner is hard since they are prior NHL more or less. But Markus Näslund > Nilsson > Loob for me.
 
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Yozhik v tumane

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Jan 2, 2019
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Pretty good shot. I would probably have Kenta Nilsson on the list and maybe Håkan Loob. Sven Tumba should perhaps be after Ulf Sterner but guys from that era is quite hard to compare with the modern players.

Old post and replies, but…

I think it’s tricky listing the Swedes over time for several reasons. The NHL track records are rather straightforward and to each her own who you prefer when they’re close. But then it gets easy lowering guys like Loob, Mats Näslund and Nilsson who were NHL stars, but whose stats relative to other stars of the era are a notch below the later NHL ”super-Swedes”. Loob holds the record for most goals by a Swedish NHLer with 50, but he didn’t even lead his own team in goals that season! Nieuwendyk netted 51! Loob did peak top-10 in goals and points, but not consistently and this can be said for many Swedes since. I give him and Le Petit Viking full credit for leading great teams in scoring, but for offensive players in the 80s, their stats aren’t as impressive relative to the competition as what the following generations were able to produce. One might ask oneself however if their stats in some ways were victims of circumstance, being early Euros in the NHL, Näslund playing for a defensive system and whatnot, but it’s hard for me to rank them without having been there. Nilsson of course has a lot to love. His best season is remarkable, not far off Marcel Dionne for 2nd best offensive season after Gretzky. But I can’t shake the feeling that there was a guy who rarely lived up to his potential, lost one or several steps in the playoffs, and perhaps didn’t even enjoy hockey when it got too serious and competitive. I’ve got love and respect to spare for someone like that, but when comparing him to someone like Daniel Alfredsson who had a similarly brief offensive peak despite not being nearly as gifted, but who was a fierce competitor, had a Smythe worthy playoff run, played well late in his career and tends to get underrated for his contributions on the national team, I think I value the latter more. But I admit there’s an “I was there”-bias involved with Alfie over Kenta, I should go back and watch and also try to learn more about the obstacles that the earlier stars had to clear for the next generations.

Agreed that it’s tougher with the even earlier Swedish stars. Tumba I feel has to be on any top-10 for his legacy and contributions to growing the game of hockey in Sweden. If we’re going down the rabbit hole of how he would have done going up against Howe or Beliveau, it’s tough to see how he would compare favorably, although I do think he could have become a very serviceable NHLer under slightly different circumstances. But hockey was played in two worlds at the time, the way I see it, and in Europe he was a superstar whose impact difficult to overstate. I do think it very likely Sterner was an even better player, though. Another favorite of mine from video is Lill-Strimma Svedberg, a huge “what-if” but a treat to watch.



Tumba and Sterner is hard since they are prior NHL more or less. But Markus Näslund > Nilsson > Loob for me.

Maybe, but I’d certainly place Henrik and maybe also Daniel Sedin ahead of Näslund. I don’t know, Näslund is so disappointing to me. He rarely raised his game in big games, I associate him more with failure (2002 Olympics, disappointing playoffs) than the soaring peak. I remember often hearing the claim that he was an even better talent than Forsberg but that the latter bridge the gap with his competitiveness, and perhaps it’s unfair holding Näslund’s career against a guy whose best player comparison for my money is Crosby, but it’s not only that. For guys I saw play a lot, Näslund lacked an important component of what makes a very talented player great. But I might be proven wrong.
 

Eye of Ra

Grandmaster General of the International boards
Nov 15, 2008
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When people talk about "best ever" its always offensive players they think about. Last time i checked hockey is a 6 man game. The debate should be "best ever offensive player" and "best ever defensive player".

Regarding defensive players, the best swedish ones would be:

1: Mattias Norström
2: Ulf Samuelsson
3; Kjell Samuelsson
4: Tommy Albelin
5: Niklas Hjalmarsson

1: Magnus Arvedsson
2: Jan Erixon
3: Pj Axelsson
4: Samuel Påhlsson
5: Jörgen Jönsson

Active players that can make the list: Hampus Lindholm, Mattias Ekholm, Jonas Brodin and Marcus Kruger.
 

Yozhik v tumane

Registered User
Jan 2, 2019
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When people talk about "best ever" its always offensive players they think about. Last time i checked hockey is a 6 man game. The debate should be "best ever offensive player" and "best ever defensive player".

Regarding defensive players, the best swedish ones would be:

1: Mattias Norström
2: Ulf Samuelsson
3; Kjell Samuelsson
4: Tommy Albelin
5: Niklas Hjalmarsson

1: Magnus Arvedsson
2: Jan Erixon
3: Pj Axelsson
4: Samuel Påhlsson
5: Jörgen Jönsson

Active players that can make the list: Hampus Lindholm, Mattias Ekholm, Jonas Brodin and Marcus Kruger.

A list of the best Swedish defensive defensemen of all time would still feature Nicklas Lidström, Börje Salming and Victor Hedman highly. If the criteria for “defensive defenseman” means “provides little offense” then Lidström has marquee runs like the 1997 playoffs when he was praised for shutting down Brett Hull, Selänne/Kariya, Sakic/Forsberg and the Legion of Doom en route to winning the Stanley Cup, but he was almost always a defense-first player: he rarely was caught up ice, and he was often paired with more offensive minded guys like Coffey or Murphy.

I saw your thread on Tommy Albelin in the History section, and I never got the impression that he was a great defensive defenseman. Early in his career he was a top 4 two-way guy who was good for around 30 points, and when the Devils added better players he became more of a good, reliable spare part. He wasn’t scoring few points because he was a great defensive player, he did so because he was a mediocre and limited player. The Devils would definitely prefer playing Stevens and Niedermayer in a shutdown role against their best opponents than they would Albelin, despite their ability to provide offense.

I would definitely put both Brodin and Hjalmarsson ahead, for more defensive minded players.

While I agree good defense is underrated when it comes to defensemen, the bigger point should be: who provides more value to the team? Erik Karlsson gets flack for playing bad defense, but at his best this notion was severely overstated. He wasn’t great without the puck deep in his own end, but he was very good at positioning himself to cut off the neutral zone and inhibit clean offensive zone entries while also committing to shot blocking and even leading the league in the category, in addition to outscoring all other defensemen. But I argue that defensively, his ability to carry the puck and create offense was more valuable than what any none-goalie can do without the puck. Maintaining puck possession is an underrated skill, and more difficult and valuable than many other skills.

I think your forward list is more accurate. Arvedson - Påhlsson - Axelson would be a very good shutdown line.
 
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OilerTitanFan

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Feb 26, 2019
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Salming gets rated high just because the leafs. He is not even top ten swede. Hedman is legit top 5.

Sundin is up there not because of leafs. Just to make it clear. I have no hate for the leafs. I grew up watching Salming.

Top two in no order are Lidstrom and Forsberg. The difference is Lidstrom was not bothered by injuries. Longevity is a factor and I would lean towards Lidstrom.
 

Yozhik v tumane

Registered User
Jan 2, 2019
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Salming gets rated high just because the leafs. He is not even top ten swede. Hedman is legit top 5.

Sundin is up there not because of leafs. Just to make it clear. I have no hate for the leafs. I grew up watching Salming.

Top two in no order are Lidstrom and Forsberg. The difference is Lidstrom was not bothered by injuries. Longevity is a factor and I would lean towards Lidstrom.

How old are you, which parts of Salming’s career did you catch? Peak and prime Salming (I’m defining this as the six straight years he made the post-season all-star teams) outscored every defenseman not named Potvin and sported a positive +/- on average to poor Toronto teams (8th in p% between 1974-75 and 1979-80). The next decade he played for the second to worst team in the NHL, I imagine it’s hard looking great on those dumpster fires.

At any rate, Salming will always score points for his historical contributions to the growth of the game of hockey and paving the road for Europeans to succeed and gain stardom in the NHL. He battled through severe antagonism to achieve the level of respect he’s gaining from the hockey community today. The HoH ranked him the 84th greatest player of all time, and they’re a knowledgeable bunch.

I can see the case for Hedman over Salming, but it’s ridiculous a claim that Salming wouldn’t be in the top 10 for Swedish players.
 

aphyro

För evigt trogen AIK
May 16, 2013
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Sundsvall
Well i would rank them

1. Lill-Strimma only foreinger to ever be allowed to go over to the soviet union and train with them when they were at their peak! the whole soviet team come to his funeral in Sweden!
2. Börje Salming a legend of his own!
3. Nicklas Lidström a leader in his own right! and ofc for his GWG in the winter olympics 2006 Turin
4. Hedman
 

OilerTitanFan

Registered User
Feb 26, 2019
4,620
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How old are you, which parts of Salming’s career did you catch? Peak and prime Salming (I’m defining this as the six straight years he made the post-season all-star teams) outscored every defenseman not named Potvin and sported a positive +/- on average to poor Toronto teams (8th in p% between 1974-75 and 1979-80). The next decade he played for the second to worst team in the NHL, I imagine it’s hard looking great on those dumpster fires.

At any rate, Salming will always score points for his historical contributions to the growth of the game of hockey and paving the road for Europeans to succeed and gain stardom in the NHL. He battled through severe antagonism to achieve the level of respect he’s gaining from the hockey community today. The HoH ranked him the 84th greatest player of all time, and they’re a knowledgeable bunch.

I can see the case for Hedman over Salming, but it’s ridiculous a claim that Salming wouldn’t be in the top 10 for Swedish players.
Too bad Salming played on a crap team I guess. If your team is crap then you are part of the crap. It is what it is. If he was so great then he should have been able to make those around him better.
 

rickwiththe

Registered User
Dec 13, 2018
39
24
When people talk about "best ever" its always offensive players they think about. Last time i checked hockey is a 6 man game. The debate should be "best ever offensive player" and "best ever defensive player".

Regarding defensive players, the best swedish ones would be:

1: Mattias Norström
2: Ulf Samuelsson
3; Kjell Samuelsson
4: Tommy Albelin
5: Niklas Hjalmarsson

1: Magnus Arvedsson
2: Jan Erixon
3: Pj Axelsson
4: Samuel Påhlsson
5: Jörgen Jönsson

Active players that can make the list: Hampus Lindholm, Mattias Ekholm, Jonas Brodin and Marcus Kruger.
How would you rate someone like Kenny Jönsson? 🤔
 

Jahara

Registered User
Sep 25, 2018
228
69
How would you rate someone like Kenny Jönsson? 🤔
Kenny was never as good as many Swedes think nowadays. He was great during the latter part of the 2006 Olympics but many guys during that period were better or equal. Lidström was of course the best but then we had Norström, Öhlund, Kronwall, K Johnsson, Samuelssons x2, Olausson and Ragnarsson.

Zetterberg had very good defensive qualities but too good offensively to be used as a shut down player.
 

EK47

Registered User
Feb 7, 2013
4,871
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1. Lidström
2. Hedman/Karlsson

4. Salming

Salming inarguably did more for swedish hockey, however considering them as players. Hedman and Karlsson were/are better.
 
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SwedishFire

Registered User
Mar 3, 2011
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Hopefully Hedman stills has many more years, but given what he has won/shown so far, how would you rank him in the All time greatest Swede list?

Which players would you rank above him?
Of all positions or at D only?

1 Lidström
2 Salming (fearless warrior, and what a shot)
3 Hedman
4 EK65 - great peak, but hedman is just that winner.
5 Calle Johansson - so underrated
6 R Dahlin

All time :
Forsberg
Sundin
Lidström
Salming
Alfredsson
Loob (i know, I said he shpuld be in before Alfie, but in a vacuum, may alfie be a pick ahead, but in a lineyou have to pick Loob)
Zetterberg
Tumba
Hedman
Bäckström
Hedberg - very underrated, very dominant player.
K Nilsson

I would say
 

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