Post-Game Talk: Hawks 3 @ Canucks 2 | 3/27/16

[mathonwy]

The question isn't "would you offer Lucic / Eriksson X amount of money".

The question is "would Lucic / Eriksson accept X amount of money to join the team considering what kind of a state this team is".

From a team dynamics point of view, you want to sign veterans that are willing to play second fiddle to Jake Virtanen / Jared McCann / Bo Horvat / Nikita Tryamkin / Philip Larsen.

This is why Hammer should be resigned.

This is why Brandon Prust was traded for. The problem with Prust was Jimbo's horrible pro talent assessment skills as well as his negotiation abilities.

I really can't see Lucic buying into the rebuild efforts here. He's a very moody guy that can get really negative and when he gets negative, he does really stupid things like sticking other players in the groin. In Boston he had Chara and Bergeron to keep him balanced. In LA he has Doughty and Carter to keep him balanced. There's literally nobody here in Vancouver that can babysit him emotionally and I could easily see him start pouting hard because of how much losing we'll be doing next season. Just like Ryan Miller and Radim Vrbata.

Our best bet, believe it or not, is to mend fences with our existing veterans and get them onboard the mentoring rebuild strategy right from the get go (this includes Vrbata). The reason our existing veterans are our best bet is because they have the most skin in the proverbial game. All of them have been living in Vancouver for a very long time (Vrbata excluded) and all of them have, at one point or another, been emotionally invested in seeing this team succeed.

If I were Jimbo, I would be holding a veterans only meeting at this end of this clustereff of a season and selling them hard on a 3 year rebuild plan. I would honestly relinquish authority and let the vets decide on whether or not WD is the right coach for them going forward.

The top priority is buy-in into the strategy and on-ice performance is secondary. We desperately need our veterans emotionally invested in the continued development of our young guys regardless of how much winning or losing we'll be doing. Throwing unknown veterans at the team that may or may not be emotionally invested in the strategy is gambling (Dorsett), something that we can ill afford at this point of time.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I agree that adding Lucic and/or Ericksson will likely result in a player that has a poor contract a few years down the road, however, I think that the benefits of the younger players playing with an improved team that has a chance to win every night is worth more than the avoidance of poor contracts down the road.

If the team goes through a full season that is anything like the last 2 months, it will inevitably end up destroying some younger players with potential (Virtanen, Horvat, Hutton).

I disagree. People say this and point to Edmonton because they don't understand the problem with Edmonton. Those Oilers players would look great if they had acquired Roberto Luongo for a song like Florida did, and if they had some good defensemen.

The Canucks don't need to hand out bad contracts to build a good team down the road. Just stop targeting bad hockey players.

 

[fancouver]

The question isn't "would you offer Lucic / Eriksson X amount of money".

The question is "would Lucic / Eriksson accept X amount of money to join the team considering what kind of a state this team is".

From a team dynamics point of view, you want to sign veterans that are willing to play second fiddle to Jake Virtanen / Jared McCann / Bo Horvat / Nikita Tryamkin / Philip Larsen.

This is why Hammer should be resigned.

This is why Brandon Prust was traded for. The problem with Prust was Jimbo's horrible pro talent assessment skills as well as his negotiation abilities.

I really can't see Lucic buying into the rebuild efforts here. He's a very moody guy that can get really negative and when he gets negative, he does really stupid things like sticking other players in the groin. In Boston he had Chara and Bergeron to keep him balanced. In LA he has Doughty and Carter to keep him balanced. There's literally nobody here in Vancouver that can babysit him emotionally and I could easily see him start pouting hard because of how much losing we'll be doing next season. Just like Ryan Miller and Radim Vrbata.

Our best bet, believe it or not, is to mend fences with our existing veterans and get them onboard the mentoring rebuild strategy right from the get go (this includes Vrbata). The reason our existing veterans are our best bet is because they have the most skin in the proverbial game. All of them have been living in Vancouver for a very long time (Vrbata excluded) and all of them have, at one point or another, been emotionally invested in seeing this team succeed.

If I were Jimbo, I would be holding a veterans only meeting at this end of this clustereff of a season and selling them hard on a 3 year rebuild plan. I would honestly relinquish authority and let the vets decide on whether or not WD is the right coach for them going forward.

The top priority is buy-in into the strategy and on-ice performance is secondary. We desperately need our veterans emotionally invested in the continued development of our young guys regardless of how much winning or losing we'll be doing. Throwing unknown veterans at the team that may or may not be emotionally invested in the strategy is gambling (Dorsett), something that we can ill afford at this point of time.

Disagree. The Sedins are the best role-models you need.

Plus the main reason for him coming isn't to win a cup, but personal reasons relating to family and location, which makes the signing plausible and realistic.

I'm not sure where the dislike comes from. He's not a bad hockey player as he's certainly still producing. Sure, he may be overpaid, but he is the best of his kind, a true old school power forward. Best since Iginla. I would love to see Virtanen and Horvat learn from his game.

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

Disagree. The Sedins are the best role-models you need.

Plus the main reason for him coming isn't to win a cup, but personal reasons relating to family and location, which makes the signing plausible and realistic.

I'm not sure where the dislike comes from. He's not a bad hockey player as he's certainly still producing. Sure, he may be overpaid, but he is the best of his kind, a true old school power forward. Best since Iginla. I would love to see Virtanen and Horvat learn from his game.

You didn't read his post. He said "babysitters", not role-models. And he's right, Lucic isn't going to listen to the twins. He's a huge piece of ****. He wants teammates that will come with him to the club and get problematic with girls. He probably thinks the twins are ******* because they stay home with their wives. He's a moody guy with a history of stupid statements and moronic behaviour on and off-ice. Do you think those qualities are likely to recede if he plays in Vancouver? I don't.

Anyways, it won't happen. I used to worry that Benning would make him our Clarkson, but Jimbo has successfully reduced this franchise to a pile of rubble that no agent would recommend to a client. We won't be in the running for any top FAs for a long time.

 

[mathonwy]

Disagree. The Sedins are the best role-models you need.

Plus the main reason for him coming isn't to win a cup, but personal reasons relating to family and location, which makes the signing plausible and realistic.

I'm not sure where the dislike comes from. He's not a bad hockey player as he's certainly still producing. Sure, he may be overpaid, but he is the best of his kind, a true old school power forward. Best since Iginla. I would love to see Virtanen and Horvat learn from his game.

I'm not talking about role models.

I'm talking about leadership styles. I'm talking about interpersonal dynamics. I'm talking about personal motivation.

Has Lucic ever been perceived as a family guy like Hammer has? I would say no. I would classify Lucic as a pretty selfish player that only respects strong alpha personality types.

You think I dislike Lucic? Whether I personally like Lucic or not is not relevant to the point that I'm making.

We need beta personalities that are willing to prioritize the development of our young players over winning and IMO, Lucic doesn't fit that personality type.

 

[m9]

Some of these things thrown around in here about Lucic are horrible. The guy is married with kids and has been through some brutal family stuff over the last few years. So when he comes back home, he goes out with his friends sometimes? Big shock.

I'm worried about his on-ice play in 3 or 4 years if we give him a big contract, not this off-ice nonsense

 

[fancouver]

You didn't read his post. He said "babysitters", not role-models. And he's right, Lucic isn't going to listen to the twins. He's a huge piece of ****. He wants teammates that will come with him to the club and get problematic with girls. He probably thinks the twins are ******* because they stay home with their wives. He's a moody guy with a history of stupid statements and moronic behaviour on and off-ice. Do you think those qualities are likely to recede if he plays in Vancouver? I don't.

Anyways, it won't happen. I used to worry that Benning would make him our Clarkson, but Jimbo has successfully reduced this franchise to a pile of rubble that no agent would recommend to a client. We won't be in the running for any top FAs for a long time.

This is ridiculous. Lucic doesn't need a babysitter. There's no evidence he won't listen to the twins.

The bolded is border-line defamatory with no basis of truth. Seriously, please re-read what you just said. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

Lucic has a family and is a well-respected professional in this league.

I'm not talking about role models.

I'm talking about leadership styles. I'm talking about interpersonal dynamics. I'm talking about personal motivation.

Has Lucic ever been perceived as a family guy like Hammer has? I would say no. I would classify Lucic as a pretty selfish player that only respects strong alpha personality types.

You think I dislike Lucic? Whether I personally like Lucic or not is not relevant to the point that I'm making.

We need beta personalities that are willing to prioritize the development of our young players over winning and IMO, Lucic doesn't fit that personality type.

I should have been more clear. I'm not implying you dislike him, but from the comments I've read, like the above, I am confident in how I got to that conclusion.

But after reading your bolded, perhaps I'm not wrong in saying you dislike Lucic.

How do you come to the conclusion he has no self-motivation? Did he pull a Keith Tkachuk showing up to camp overweight?

Or, did this guy actually play a part in winning a cup?

Some of these things thrown around in here about Lucic are horrible. The guy is married with kids and has been through some brutal family stuff over the last few years. So when he comes back home, he goes out with his friends sometimes? Big shock.

I'm worried about his on-ice play in 3 or 4 years if we give him a big contract, not this off-ice nonsense

Couldn't agree more.

 

[mathonwy]

I should have been more clear. I'm not implying you dislike him, but from the comments I've read, like the above, I am confident in how I got to that conclusion.

But after reading your bolded, perhaps I'm not wrong in saying you dislike Lucic.

How do you come to the conclusion he has no self-motivation? Did he pull a Keith Tkachuk showing up to camp overweight?

Or, did this guy actually play a part in winning a cup?

You can say whatever you want to say to try to make this a personal issue of me "disliking Milan Lucic" and I'll just laugh at your efforts for doing so.

I'm talking about Milan the person. Milan is an alpha male that is part bully and part child. This type of personality only aquiesces to older alpha male type personalities who on the Bruins were Patrice Bergeron and Zdeno Chara.

In LA, those other older alpha male type personalities were Dustin Brown, Drew Doughty and Jeff Carter. Anze doesn't seem to be much of an alpha IMO.

On your Vancouver Canucks, those two other older alpha male type personalities are....

Dank and Hank Sedin?

Milan doesn't respect the Sedins one bit as Milan only respects violent push back which, if you hadn't noticed, is not the Sedins forte.

Considering how effed up our locker room is right now I would not risk introducing a personality like Lucic's into it. I don't predict much success for us in the next few seasons and no offense to Milan whatosever, I don't think Milan could handle the scrutiny of the fans not to mention the media. Vancouver is really pissed off right now.