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Hawk fans, what happened to Toews?

daver

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Apr 4, 2003
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From 2010 to 2015, I had no problem with rating Toews as among the 2nd tier of centres behind Malkin and Crosby and neck and neck with Kane as the Hawks best forward. Since then, Kane has taken off and Toews has dropped into the lower half of the #1Cs in the league.

What is the biggest reason for this?
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KingBran

KingBran

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Apr 24, 2014
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Toews is who most people thought he was. Losing his supporting cast so he isn't standing out as much. He is a product of whatever team he is on. When CHI was dominant, so was he. They aren't dominant anymore so he is not.
 
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sr edler

sr edler

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Iceman said:
I wonder if I dislike Toews’ contract or Price’s the most.
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Unless you’re a fan of Chicago or Montreal you really don’t have to dislike any of those contracts. It is what it is. Toews was never an out of this world offensive dynamo. He’s more of a Modano without the flashy skating. I’m not following Chi closely but what I understand Seabrook has regressed even more, and also has a heavy contract. It’s a team issue more than a Toews issue. Toews is not detrimental to the team.
 
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Grub

Grub

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Jun 30, 2008
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Maybe he just got old?

The poster above saying he is a product of a good team...

Dude dominated the Canucks so much..that it became such an interesting rivalry. Dude just got old IMO
 
jls24

jls24

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Apr 30, 2013
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Toews has been great this year. People talked about how he dominated in the FLA game, but that's literally how that line looks every night the only difference being pucks went in for them. Numbers will be there by the end of the year.

The 2 previous years he looked off. I'm pretty confident he played nearly all last year with a back injury. He had a 1-1.5 month stretch last year after sitting out for 3 weeks where he looked like the Toews of old, then just as quickly reverted back.
 
BruinLVGA

BruinLVGA

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daver said:
He 44th among Centres in PPG (ten game min.). I would say that is not good enough for a #1C.
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Did I say anything about "1C"? I said that a player who's producing at 0.70ppg it's not bad. It's bad - actually awful - if you consider his contract.

And by the way, last year there were 40 players - centers, wingers, defensemen - with 60 points (he's on pace for 58, close enough) or more in the whole league. 60 points is nothing to sneeze at. This year the average is up. For NOW, that is...
 
Steve Kournianos

Steve Kournianos

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He earned the contract and won multiple Cups, including another one after hd signed it. He was heading for UFA anyway.

Saying he's 44th in scoring among centers isn't indicative of what he does on a nightly basis. Toews is still dangerous with the puck and creates chances. His linemates aren't finishing or seem to have chemistry so he's shooting more. Panik hurt his stats too. Toews was never a speed demon so it doesnt appear like he's lost a step.

Most players alter their games to adjust to their sge and body. Gretzky scored less and less goals as he aged. Pedro Martinez was still a strikeout pitcher when he lost arm strength and velocity on his heater. Yzerman and Modano focused more on defense as they aged and lost the flashy plays and gaudy stats. We're almost in December and Crosby needed to go on a mini tear to finally get into the Top 20.
 
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sr edler

sr edler

gold is not reality
Mar 20, 2010
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Grub said:
Maybe he just got old?
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Yeah, or just worn out. The guy has played a lot of games and there's this thing called nagging injuries. Plus the guy never was a 100 point player in the first place....

He's also getting payed for what he did, not necessarily for what he does now. I think when Toews won his first Cup in Chicago he was still on his ELC or at least close to it.
 
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Steve Kournianos

Steve Kournianos

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Half the money from big contracts with UFA years is a reward for past performance. The other half is on potential.

The Hawks didnt expect Toews to be a Top-5 center in 2018 or 2021. They wanted to lock up and reward their captain and face of the franchise for winning multiple Cups and breaking a 40-year jinx. Go to a Hawks game and you see more Toews jerseys than anyone else.

There isn't one Hawks exec or coach thinking Toews isn't earning his money. That idea is just silly.
 
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daver

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Steve Kournianos said:
Half the money from big contracts with UFA years is a reward for past performance. The other half is on potential.

The Hawks didnt expect Toews to be a Top-5 center in 2018 or 2021. They wanted to lock up and reward their captain and face of the franchise for winning multiple Cups and breaking a 40-year jinx. Go to a Hawks game and you see more Toews jerseys than anyone else.

There isn't one Hawks exec or coach thinking Toews isn't earning his money. That idea is just silly.
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The thread isn't about this. It's asking what has changed to make him a lower tier #1C.
 

bobholly39

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Mar 10, 2013
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Iceman said:
His intangibles are resting for the playoffs... but he forgot to account for them not even make the playoffs.

I wonder if I dislike Toews’ contract or Price’s the most.
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Carey Price got his contract with the expectation being he'd be a perennial vezina caliber goalie for many years (which in turn of course means he can go on a run in the playoffs too).

I have no issues whatsoever with Prices contract as a Habs fan. I think if he had started the season strong - very few would complain too.

Despite past playoff heroics - Toews isn't as high a caliber of player. He' never going to win a hart as league mvp or close.
 

GTislanders

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Jan 9, 2014
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Who cares? If I was a Hawks fan I would care less what his salary is after witnessing multiple cups. 10.5 isn't nearly as bad as Jacob Voracek making 8.5 million.
 

Canucks1096

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Feb 13, 2016
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Grub said:
Maybe he just got old?

The poster above saying he is a product of a good team...

Dude dominated the Canucks so much..that it became such an interesting rivalry. Dude just got old IMO
Click to expand...

2010 playoffs yes with 12 points in 6 games

2011 playoffs No that series he got shut down by Kesler. Toews had 0 ESP in that series.
 

Canucks1096

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Feb 13, 2016
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From 2008 to 2015 Toews always had a Kane Sharp Hossa on his line. Sometimes 2 of them as well. 2015-2016 Hossa was struggling and 2017 Hossa wasn't on his line that much. So he went from around 70 points a season to back to back 58 points a season. Also having Bolland Kruger to help with defensive helped him a lot as well.

In terms of playoffs Toews only could play at a high level and dominate if he is on a stacked team from top to bottom. 2010 2014 2015 season. 2011 2012 Hawks got rid of Buff Versteeg Ladd Campbell and Toews just had ok playoffs. 2014 2015 Hawks got there support casts back with Shaw Saad Richards Vermette TT Leddy. Toews played at a high level again and was dominating. 2016 and 2017 Hawks supporting Richards Vermette TT Leddy Sharp Saad left and Toews didn't dominate in the playoffs again.

Without the linemates or/and the stacked teams Toews is just top 15 to top 20 center in the league. Most centers will play better with better linemates. But Toews is night and day. Completely different player.
 
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