Has Messi surpassed Gretzky/Jordan and others as the GOAT for all sports?

[J bo Jeans]

People in South America don’t worship longevity like in North America. Ask any Argentinian who they think is the goat. Maradona was the better player and had the more prolific moments in his career. He was both a better player and bigger legend.


Maradona carried a mediocre Napoli to back to back league titles as well as a mediocre Argentina squad to the World Cup gold medal. That’s what a true goat is capable of.

Come on man do you really think if today you asked a bunch of Argentines they would still say Maradona was better. Only debatable thing Maradona was better at was dribbling. Messi is a better passer and shooter.

 

[TBF1972]

It was the Dutch edition Real Madrid before Cristiano Ronaldo arrived. His first season in Madrid it was really just him and Higuaín doing the scoring. Benzema had 9 goals in 37 matches across all competitions, the club legend Raúl had 7 in 39. Cristiano Ronaldo 33 in 35. In the Spanish league they went immediately from 78 points to a new club record of 96. Or 83:52 goal difference to 102:35. The improvement he brought with him was massive.

the decrease in goals suggests the team improved beyond ronaldo.

 

[Voight]

Anything messi is doing in the mls should not even be looked at. Embarrassing really

No real soccer fan is claiming as much.

Messi couldve retired a month ago and his legacy would've been just as great. He has nothing to prove.

 

[namttebih]

I don't know that he has separated himself from the likes of Ronaldo and Pele in the way that Gretzky or Bradman did from the rest of the pack to say this.

Learned something new today. Thank you

 

[TBF1972]

Come on man do you really think if today you asked a bunch of Argentines they would still say Maradona was better. Only debatable thing Maradona was better at was dribbling. Messi is a better passer and shooter.

maradona might had the better raw talent. as a young player he was really explosive. on the other hand tactics to limit the space of the players wasn't as effective as in today's game.

as a result messi developed an incredible tight dribbling at all times. his feet are at all times so close to the ball which allows him to change direction at any time. the precision of messi's high speed dribblings is absolutely unmatched.

 

[namttebih]

I'm not sure if he's been mentioned yet, but Jim Thorpe could be the GOAT for overall athlete.

-Gold medal pentathlon
-Gold medal decathlon
-College lacrosse and football
-Professional baseball
-Professional basketball
-Professional football
-Pro football hall of fame
-College football hall of fame

Was offered a pro hockey contract at the same time as the baseball offer, but chose the latter.

 

[authentic]

No, Messi benefitted a lot from amazing Barcelona teams to get all the goals he scored as well as UEFA basically gifting Barca numerous games in the champions league.

And the refs helped greatly with Argentina this year. I would rate Tom Brady and Gretzky over Messi any day of the week.

Lol and Gretzky didn’t benefit a lot from amazing Edmonton teams? He also played in the worst division in the league for many of his prime years

 

[Ben White]

Come on man do you really think if today you asked a bunch of Argentines they would still say Maradona was better. Only debatable thing Maradona was better at was dribbling. Messi is a better passer and shooter.

Lol

 

[Ben White]

Come on man do you really think if today you asked a bunch of Argentines they would still say Maradona was better. Only debatable thing Maradona was better at was dribbling. Messi is a better passer and shooter.

Anyone who saw them both play, say people over 50, would say Maradona was better.

 

[J bo Jeans]

Lol

Its not even a debate lol. His crosses and shooting are absolutely better than Maradona. Its not even a question LMAO

 

[Ben White]

Its not even a debate lol. His crosses and shooting are absolutely better than Maradona. Its not even a question LMAO

Its not even a debate lol. His crosses and shooting are absolutely better than Maradona. Its not even a question LMAO

Apparently you didn’t watch Maradona play.

 

[TBF1972]

Apparently you didn’t watch Maradona play.

maradona was really talented. maybe more talented than messi. but messi easily outworked him by age 25. from 25 onwards it's not a competitive comparison anymore. careerwise maradona is hardly a top10 player of all time.

 

[Ben White]

maradona was really talented. maybe more talented than messi. but messi easily outworked him by age 25. from 25 onwards it's not a competitive comparison anymore. careerwise maradona is hardly a top10 player of all time.

If Maradona was better I don’t really care if Messi played much longer it still doesn’t make up for it. Pelé and R9 are probably more competition for Maradona in terms of best player ever than Messi.

Who cares about discussing “best career” anyway, you just have to count accolades and stats and that’s that, not much to discuss.

To use accolades and stats as an argument to prove player A is better than player B now that’s worth discussing. And I think that Maradona was clearly enough (like a close but clear case) better than Messi that Messi’s career doesn’t make up for it.

 

[NMF78]

If Maradona was better I don’t really care if Messi played much longer it still doesn’t make up for it. Pelé and R9 are probably more competition for Maradona in terms of best player ever than Messi.

Who cares about discussing “best career” anyway, you just have to count accolades and stats and that’s that, not much to discuss.

To use accolades and stats as an argument to prove player A is better than player B now that’s worth discussing. And I think that Maradona was clearly enough (like a close but clear case) better than Messi that Messi’s career doesn’t make up for it.

Maradona probably has the best touch/ball controll of all players that i've seen play. But take away the 1986 WC and his resume is not that of a top 10 player of all time. So in terms of skill one of the greatest but in terms of actual performance and achievements not in the conversation.

 

[Ben White]

Maradona probably has the best touch/ball controll of all players that i've seen play. But take away the 1986 WC and his resume is not that of a top 10 player of all time. So in terms of skill one of the greatest but in terms of actual performance and achievements not in the conversation.

Can you confidently name another player who would bring the recent bottom feeder Napoli to back to back Scudetti in the best and toughest league in the world (in a time when there was one undisputed best league in the world).

 

[Albatros]

Can you confidently name another player who would bring the recent bottom feeder Napoli to back to back Scudetti in the best and toughest league in the world (in a time when there was one undisputed best league in the world).

Preben Elkjær.

 

[NMF78]

Can you confidently name another player who would bring the recent bottom feeder Napoli to back to back Scudetti in the best and toughest league in the world (in a time when there was one undisputed best league in the world).

Those Napoli teams wore far better then you maken them out to be.
And even then, 2 league titles and one European Cup...
Like i said many footballers with superior club resumes

 

[Ben White]

Those Napoli teams wore far better then you maken them out to be.
And even then, 2 league titles and one European Cup...
Like i said many footballers with superior club resumes

Quantity wise, not quality wise, if you wanna call the guy who very clearly wasn’t the best soccer player in history the GOAT based on quantity then go ahead but I’m not on your team.

 

[Sports2]

Tiger & Secretariat

yes a horse truly the best athlete of all time

 

[Roomtemperature]

No, Messi benefitted a lot from amazing Barcelona teams to get all the goals he scored as well as UEFA basically gifting Barca numerous games in the champions league.

And the refs helped greatly with Argentina this year. I would rate Tom Brady and Gretzky over Messi any day of the week.

Brady is a cheater and all accomplishments should be dq'd

 

[Overrated]

Quantity wise, not quality wise, if you wanna call the guy who very clearly wasn’t the best soccer player in history the GOAT based on quantity then go ahead but I’m not on your team.

"clearly"

Messi has all the records lmao. Most goals in the Big 5 leagues in history, most assists in history. Won everything there is to be won while being the MVP in all. Highest peak with impossible numbers never to be replicated. Never got carried and don't bring up the whole Xavi Iniesta bullshit. Those two benefited from him far more than he ever did from them.

Are you a hockey fan? Do you realize if this whole "NHL point system" existed in soccer he'd have like 50% higher PPG than the second highest ever? He has a piece in almost every goal scored by any team he plays on. He also makes everyone around him better. Robert Taylor was a random player nobody knew about and now he is a legitimate star player in the MLS.

The only thing Maradona has on Messi is the story. He is like the Muhammed Ali of soccer.

 

[Albatros]

In soccer there isn't even a clear uniform definition for what an assist is.

 

[Fatass]

Pele is the best in soccer. So Messi isn’t even the best in his own sport.

 

[Matsun]

Preben Elkjær.

Ha! Beat me to it. Everyone forgets the Verona miracle a few years before Napoli.

 

[TBF1972]

Pele is the best in soccer. So Messi isn’t even the best in his own sport.

pele is a difficult player to argue against or for.

he never played outside of brasil except for the world cups and his dwilight years in the us. the world cups he won, were team wins and he wasn't always the best player on the national teams.

pele or messi is more of a religious question than one you can argue about based on facts