Speculation: Has a team ever signed a free agent with the intention of trading them?

[LeProspector]

The only one I an think of is when the Ottawa Senators traded Marian Hossa hours after signing him to an extension, and as far as I understand, Hossa was not aware of the trade.

Heatley traded to Sens for Hossa

The Atlanta Thrashers traded former NHL rookie of the year Dany Heatley to the Ottawa Senators for Marian Hossa on Tuesday, a blockbuster deal involving two high-scoring right wingers.

www.espn.com

Here's some more information about it: The Marian Hossa for Dany Heatley Trade, Revisited

Typical Senators.

 

[mouser]

you can’t do a sign a UFS, retain, then trade. It’s cap circumvention. The league will block it.

it’s the same thing thst saw player X traded to a different team, get bought out, thrn sign with original team. This happened and the league say this will not happen again.

The answer is we don’t know. The CBA rules don’t say such a deal would be a illegal. Nor has any team attempted to do such a deal in the past and been officially blocked by the NHL.

If a team tries to do this in the future then the NHL could block the Trade and the team/player could subsequently appeal. If and when that happens we’ll know finally know the official answer.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

you can’t do a sign a UFS, retain, then trade. It’s cap circumvention. The league will block it.

it’s the same thing thst saw player X traded to a different team, get bought out, thrn sign with original team. This happened and the league say this will not happen again.

Those are two completely different scenarios. It's not the same thing. Nobody has done this yet.

 

[Djp]

Those are two completely different scenarios. It's not the same thing. Nobody has done this yet.

It really isn’t.

another example it trading a player to a team and they trade them back with retention.

they are using another team to help them out of their poor cap planning.

it’s anticompetitive trading.

 

[lawrence]

Every team does this.

cmaaaaaaan guys.

 

[ottawagm]

Foligno and Perry I assume

 

[LudwigVonKarlsson]

Pretty much every rebuilding team

Ottawa never did this during their rebuild. In fact, we used several buy outs on players that we acquired from other teams.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

you can’t do a sign a UFS, retain, then trade. It’s cap circumvention. The league will block it.

it’s the same thing thst saw player X traded to a different team, get bought out, thrn sign with original team. This happened and the league say this will not happen again.

Spell check?

 

[Mrfenn92]

Ottawa never did this during their rebuild. In fact, we used several buy outs on players that we acquired from other teams.

Ok for picks though?

 

[EK392000]

flipped at the deadline sure. traded immediately would kill your reputation. no free agent will sign for the foreseeable future without trade protection.

I would assume the team would need to compensate the player for agreeing to such a deal. What if you paid above market value? Like if you paid Patrick Kane 10 million, which I don’t think he’s worth anymore, but flip him at 5?

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

It really isn’t.

another example it trading a player to a team and they trade them back with retention.

they are using another team to help them out of their poor cap planning.

it’s anticompetitive trading.

You're just describing Minnesota retaining money on Orlov and O'Reilly at last year's deadline. Yet more unblocked moves of this intention.

 

[AslanRH]

another example it trading a player to a team and they trade them back with retention.

except there is a specific rule regarding this, so not really the same.
Mouser's post addresses the initial scenario

 

[BonMorrison]

Unless I'm misreading it, I think OP means signing and immediately trading.

 

[Djp]

You're just describing Minnesota retaining money on Orlov and O'Reilly at last year's deadline. Yet more unblocked moves of this intention.

Pass through retention is allowed

im talking of say Matthews was a UFA, Toronto asks team X to sign him for his current contract length/cap and retain $4M+ each year for a 2nd.

Washington traded Oprik iirc to Colorado then they bought him out and he resigned in Washington is not allowed.

pittsburg tried to trade for a player they retained on in the off-season and couldn’t. Trade voided by league.

Similarly if Pittsburgh traded him to team X after last years deadline and tried to reaquire him with retention by next years is deadline isn’t allowed.

it’s the same reason why offer sheets carry a one calendar year NMC

it’s all cap circumvention.

 

[Djp]

except there is a specific rule regarding this, so not really the same.
Mouser's post addresses the initial scenario

Except it involves cap circumvention/ anticompetitive action.

the league likely sent an internal memo to all teams voiding any trades attempting the thing I mentioned becsusr it violates thr spirit of the law.

in an offer sheet around some player like Laf on a team with a $10M cap hit a team could Put in some conditions that adjust salary which forces a bonus tho matching team would certainly be paying but new team would not.

this happened 30 years ago with escalator clauses in the nfl that were latter blocked in future CBAs

 

[AslanRH]

Except it involves cap circumvention/ anticompetitive action.

the league likely sent an internal memo to all teams voiding any trades attempting the thing I mentioned becsusr it violates thr spirit of the law.

I don't necessarily disagree, but the correct answer is that it is unknown as it hasn't been tested yet.
It wouldn't surprise me a bit though if someone explores it on a player like Patrick Kane due to the bind the flat cap years have put on contenders.

 

[Crazy8oooo]

We call that a Cali special.

Only seen Cali teams do it

Only Cali teams have signed a ufa with the intention of selling them off later? I’m pretty certain that is not correct. Just look at some of the responses in this thread about other teams doing it.

 

[Fig]

Except it involves cap circumvention/ anticompetitive action.

the league likely sent an internal memo to all teams voiding any trades attempting the thing I mentioned becsusr it violates thr spirit of the law.

The one year TDL thing is a common one and it doesn't seem like there's an issue with it.

I think it depends on the scenario going forward. This year was one of the first where we saw sign and voids (Galchenyuk) as well as sign and trade (Tkachuk). As more examples of these show up, I wonder if more teams may find the circumstances to make such a transaction possible.

I think signing a UFA and then trading them rapidly could occur, but I don't think you could get away with it if your intention was to trade immediately and not try to leverage their contract status at the TDL. However, I guess this could be possible if a player suddenly had family they wanted to be around (illness) and it was either retain and trade to a specific location vs the player go on an extended leave of absence. Maybe something like that? (ie: Heart attack of a family member a few weeks after signing as UFA?) But I assume teams would try and ask the league if it's allowed prior to doing it vs just doing it and asking for forgiveness.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Conor garland signed in Vancouver thinking he can get the contract he wanted but wanted out as soon as he signed paper to pen.

Toronto signed some cat I forget his name and they got 2nd round picks for him in back to back deadlines

Daniel Winnik

 

[GeeoffBrown]

The Tkachuk trade to Florida was apparently the first true sign and trade in NHL history

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/florida-panthers/features/examining-panthers-acquisition-of-matthew-tkachuk-on-one-year-anniversary-of-blockbuster-trade

 

[Flamesfan62]

Happens all the time

 

[Schemp]

I would be surprised if Arizona signed Dumba and Zucker to hold onto them for the entire season.

I disagree. However the Coyotes have been known to sign free agents for only 1 year and trade them at the dead line. I disagree because the AZ Coyotes are competing this season and may be on the bubble by the dead line.

 

[AslanRH]

The Tkachuk trade to Florida was apparently the first true sign and trade in NHL history

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/florida-panthers/features/examining-panthers-acquisition-of-matthew-tkachuk-on-one-year-anniversary-of-blockbuster-trade

I think I'd still count Devin Setoguchi in that category.
Signing Date: Jun. 23, 2011
Trade Date: Jun. 24, 2011

Granted he was just a part of the Burns trade, but IIRC his having a contract was a requirement.

 

[Freudian]

Most of the time when teams that miss the playoffs sign a decent UFA for a 1 year contract, trading the player at trade deadline is at least on the table.

 

[Voight]

The examples people are using are guys who were signed with the intention of them playing 3/4 of the season and being traded at the deadline - to maximise the return for the trade and minimise cap hit for the acquiring team. This is fairly common.

As far as a player being signed for the purpose of being traded immediately with retention, even though this isn’t expressly forbidden by the CBA, I’d say that is something the league would consider cap circumvention.

Well for starters you cant trade guys like that until December.