Hart Trophy: Who has better claim?

[OurlordAndSaviorKuch]

Game 6, 2022 Stanley Cup Final. Avalanche are up 3-2 in the series vs the vaunted Tampa Bay Lightning who are looking to become a dynasty.

Nathan MacKinnon 1g 1a for 2 points.
Kucherov no points.

Avalanche win the game 3-2. Series over (4-2) and Avalanche win the cup. The better player elevated his team when it mattered. Great point Outl4w.

Congrats except Kuch already has two cups.

So I guess slow claps for Avs fans on that

It evens out.

Players seemingly only want to play in warm and sunny tax free states and the media simply will not vote for anyone who plays there.

Yeah that’s totally the only reason we have the players we do.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Time per game x amount of games played
Basic math

Was this intended to be a useful response?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Start of year I went Dallas Florida, still kind of leaning that way.
Final 4. I have is Edmonton vs Dallas and Florida vs Carolina. So I’ll pick players from those 4 teams likely.

 

[Rschmitz]

But it wasn't a threepeat since the Avalanche stomped the piss out of them. I know you don't follow hockey very much but losing our Captain has been a heavy cost. He hasn't played since June 26th 2022.

You make some fair points in favor of Mackinnon but this is absolute bullshit, you barely skirted by in six. You had a cake route to the finals, swept a charmony soft Edmonton team, and three of your four wins were by one goal. If you lost Rantanen for the entire postseason like we were missing Point, you don't win the Cup either.

It was a great series, don't disrespect how hard both teams fought and made it to try and make a bad point.

 

[Outl4w]

Was this intended to be a useful response?

Yeah I explained it

 

[blundluntman]

The Tampa vs Colorado "my player's better than yours" pissing match is starting to be just as cringe-worthy as the Crosby vs McDavid/Ovi pissing matches. I can only imagine how terrible it'll be if Mackinnon actually winds up winning the Hart over him.

 

[Rschmitz]

The Tampa vs Colorado "my player's better than yours" pissing match is starting to be just as cringe-worthy as the Crosby vs McDavid/Ovi pissing matches. I can only imagine how terrible it'll be if Mackinnon actually winds up winning the Hart over him.

100% Mackinnon will win it, no need to imagine

 

[blundluntman]

100% Mackinnon will win it, no need to imagine

True. The media's basically already made up their mind

 

[Golden_Jet]

True. The media's basically already made up their mind

Ya the media has said it’s his turn.

 

[ccman68]

all i know is that if mackinnon had kucherov’s season he would win it with 100% first place votes

 

[GirardSpinorama]

The Tampa vs Colorado "my player's better than yours" pissing match is starting to be just as cringe-worthy as the Crosby vs McDavid/Ovi pissing matches. I can only imagine how terrible it'll be if Mackinnon actually winds up winning the Hart over him.

Ya the whining from kucherov fans is gonna be endless.

 

[Rschmitz]

Kucherov needed to hit 150 points, anything "close" gets journalists off the hook to pick their narrative, and there is no narrative where the introverted Russian from Florida wins. Just reality

 

[Outl4w]

Ya the whining from kucherov fans is gonna be endless.

He had a better season

 

[TheStatican]

Kuch got 4 more points, that's a difference of less than 3% He achieved this by have 11 more assists, but at the same time scored 7 less goals. That is essentially a wash.

Also since when has shooting percentage EVER MATTERED in any significant way ever? Ovechkin was 56th in shooting percentage(players with 40 or more games played) when he scored 65 goals in 2008-09 a year that some people consider to be - not me, but it's up there - the greatest goals scoring season ever

NHL Stats

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The strongest argument for Kucherov is his higher percentage of involvement in the teams offensive production. Kuch's being 49.4% and Mac 46.0% credit to Kuch for his advantage but it's not a huge advantage by any means. But MacKinnon registered nearly a 100 more(32%) more shots while having only 12% less assists than Kucherov, does this not actually show that MacKinnon was actually the one who was more involved in his teams offensive play?

 

[GOilers88]

Definitely Kuch.

 

[Spirits]

You make some fair points in favor of Mackinnon but this is absolute bullshit

Bullshit hyperbole deserves return bullshit hyperbole.

Congrats except Kuch already has two cups.

Read the entire thing so you understand the conversation.

 

[Rschmitz]

Kuch got 4 more points, that's a difference of less than 3% He achieved this by have 11 more assists, but at the same time scored 7 less goals. That is essentially a wash.

Kucherov scored 144 points in 1755 minutes, that's a point every 12.1875 minutes. At 20 minutes a game that is 134.5 points

Mackinnon scored 140 points in 1871 minutes, that's a point every 13.3642 minutes. At 20 minutes a game that is 122.7 points

That's a 9% difference. Kucherov is 9% more productive than Mackinnon

 

[GirardSpinorama]

He had a better season

Perfect example of the whining we will see this summer. I'm ready for it .

 

[Spirits]

Is Landeskog coming back for playoffs, hockey pool tonight.

I doubt if he ever plays again tbh.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Kucherov scored 144 points in 1755 minutes, that's a point every 12.1875 minutes

Mackinnon scored 140 points in 1871 minutes, that's a point every 13.3642 minutes

That's a 9% difference. Kucherov is 9% more productive than Mackinnon

Kucherov's must have terrible cardio to not handle the minutes .

 

[Golden_Jet]

Ya the whining from kucherov fans is gonna be endless.

It will be one or the two fan bases whining.

 

[ThunderRoad]

Wingers just aren't as valuable as centers so they wont win many harts anyways.

Which is why Kucherov putting up the numbers he does, beating and rivaling the centers makes what he accomplished that much more impressive. And why if he's just a winger, should put him above the others because he's doing it from the "less valuable" position. Plus, he's doing it when he doesn't have "better" physical attributes to his game (he's not as fast as Mackinnon or McDavid, doesn't have as hard of a shot as his own teammates, let alone those guys in consideration for the Hart, his size isn't remarkable, etc) but no other player matches him in hockey IQ in today's game. Celebral over power. And considering the complete dismal cluster that has been Tampa's defensive output this season, him being one of the very few with a positive +/ - in that team stat helps show his value to the Lightning even more (when he's said to be such a defensive liability around these parts).

 

[Rschmitz]

Kucherov's must have terrible cardio to not handle the minutes .

Interesting response, did you feel the same way when Mackinnon lost time due to injury? Mackinnon must have terrible durability to not handle the minutes. Maybe if he wasn't overplayed every game he'd stay healthier?

 

[Outl4w]

Kucherov's must have terrible cardio to not handle the minutes .

If you have hockey knowledge by playing or watching the game it had more to do with center versus winger. Top 6 centers play more because there are 4 centers in your line up and top 6 wingers play less because their are 8 wingers in a line up. Also being a center does give you a slight advantage to get more assist in offensive face-offs to a winger. I played center my whole life and still do. I rack up a lot of points winning the face off cleanly back to point or winger . If they shoot it or pass it to the guy that scores you get an assist. As a winger you are less likely to get the first or secondary assist from a offensive zone faceoff goal. The point gap from most points in top scoring mackinnon center to second mcdavid is not nearly as wide as it is from kucherov.to second winger. There is a reason for that. Top6 Centers get more ice time on average then your top 6 wingers and they can rack.up points in the offensive zone faceoff easier. Also they tend to be in the center of.the ice in both zones which means they are more likely.to get the puck passed to them then a winger. It isn't always the case but is true in most.cases why you usually see more centers finishing with more points then wingers. Kucherov completely dominated the nhl from the wing. If we posted a highlight reel of all of mackinnons points and kucherov points the wow factor wouldn't even be close. Mackinnon is just an elite two way center who has great offensive instincts and skill, but he doesn't blow you away with 3-4 highlight real passes, dekes, shots,goals, or setup plays per game like kucherov. Kucherov offensive iq is in the top 5 players of all time when it comes to making plays and space out of nowhere. McDavid,Gretzky, crosby, jagr, and kucherov are the only guys I have seen be able to make the dirtiest play look simple on a nightly basis with their hockey iqs. Mackinnon is a great player and barring major injury hof and kucherov is already there with his awards and records.

 

[Coffey]

“It’s his time” is definitely going to play a factor for voters.

Heart = Mack
Brain = Kuch