Hart Trophy: Who has better claim?

[Plastic Joseph]

Giving players awards because they’re “due” is how other players end up being historically underrated in history. Just like with the Conn Smythe’s he should have won, people are going to look back in history at Kucherov and be like “Only one Hart, he’s not up there with some of the elite wingers in history” and they’d be wrong. Such a shame.

I dunno, I feel like anyone who actually knows anything (this is IF he doesn't win it) will look at see a hart, 2X art ross, and 2X leading playoff scorer in cup winning years and will rate him among the best offensive players of that generation.

He definitely had a case to win at least one CS, but so did the guys who won, just like he has a case for the Hart this year. The thing is, the best offensive player isn't always the most valuable, but that doesn't mean they still weren't extremely valuable. Nobody can take away Kuch's offensive numbers and anyone who underrates him will be dumb. I feel like people will point to MacKinnon's trophy case and underrate him too. It happens to a lot of players but that's what happens.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

100 assists is a lot of nothing. LOL

I mean like 4 other guys have done it bro, its lame now

 

[tucker3434]

Playwr b played over 1000 more minutes And finished with less points. That makes it even worse for.mack not better.
Player a higher ppg, higher points per 60 mins, higher points when game is tied, higher total points, higher shooting percentage scoring 44 goals, higher points per game against top5/10 teams and led the league in points.
Player b has more goals and played over 1000 more minutes but has a lower shooting percentagentage.
The gap between macks goal lead to kucherovs and kucherovs assist lead to macks assist still favors kuch.
If anything seems you are trying to prop up a guy that doesn't perform as well per game , per 60.minutes , and is worst against the better competition.

MacKinnon has better numbers at 5v5. He scores at higher rates there. I'm not even sure the last time somebody had 79 points at 5v5. Kucherov is a better PP (and EN) guy.

Talk about scrapping the bottom of the barrel. Mack's 73% offensive zone draws, 46% faceoffs, and team SV% of .880 while he's on the ice.

100 assists is a lot of nothing. LOL

I was quoting the other guy. My responses were in red. Take it up with him. But I'm not sure why Georgiev being a tire fire is MacKinnon's fault.

It's being overblown since scoring is up. If Kucherov had 100 assists and the next guy down had 70, okay. But he tied for the league lead in assists. That's not going to get him an automatic Hart.

 

[Rschmitz]

MacKinnon has better numbers at 5v5. He scores at higher rates there. I'm not even sure the last time somebody had 79 points at 5v5. Kucherov is a better PP (and EN) guy.




I was quoting the other guy. My responses were in red. Take it up with him. But I'm not sure why Georgiev being a tire fire is MacKinnon's fault.

It's being overblown since scoring is up. If Kucherov had 100 assists and the next guy down had 70, okay. But he tied for the league lead in assists. That's not going to get him an automatic Hart.

The other guy was boasting about Mack’s defense? The difference between their defense is arbitrary, if anything Kucherovs defense is underrated

 

[Toby91ca]

Playwr b played over 1000 more minutes And finished with less points. That makes it even worse for.mack not better.
Player a higher ppg, higher points per 60 mins, higher points when game is tied, higher total points, higher shooting percentage scoring 44 goals, higher points per game against top5/10 teams and led the league in points.
Player b has more goals and played over 1000 more minutes but has a lower shooting percentagentage.
The gap between macks goal lead to kucherovs and kucherovs assist lead to macks assist still favors kuch.
If anything seems you are trying to prop up a guy that doesn't perform as well per game , per 60.minutes , and is worst against the better competition.

I would have thought playing over 1000 more minutes would be an argument as to being more valuable, not a knock.

 

[Outl4w]

MacKinnon has better numbers at 5v5. He scores at higher rates there. I'm not even sure the last time somebody had 79 points at 5v5. Kucherov is a better PP (and EN) guy.




I was quoting the other guy. My responses were in red. Take it up with him. But I'm not sure why Georgiev being a tire fire is MacKinnon's fault.

It's being overblown since scoring is up. If Kucherov had 100 assists and the next guy down had 70, okay. But he tied for the league lead in assists. That's not going to get him an automatic Hart.

Mack doesn't lead the league in goals . So he doesn't lead in anything

 

[TMLife17]

Kuch for sure. Underrated still after everything he's done.

 

[tucker3434]

Mack doesn't lead the league in goals . So he doesn't lead in anything

Oh no! He's well-rounded!

 

[Outl4w]

Oh no! He's well-rounded!

So is kucherov. You would think to be the league mvp you would have to lead the league in multiple categories.

 

[Spirits]

The best players should elevate their should game when they play the best teams.

Game 6, 2022 Stanley Cup Final. Avalanche are up 3-2 in the series vs the vaunted Tampa Bay Lightning who are looking to become a dynasty.

Nathan MacKinnon 1g 1a for 2 points.
Kucherov no points.

Avalanche win the game 3-2. Series over (4-2) and Avalanche win the cup. The better player elevated his team when it mattered. Great point Outl4w.

 

[Rschmitz]

Oh no! He's well-rounded!

That's what I tell women who complain that I'm not 6', doesn't seem to work

 

[Spirits]

I mean like 4 other guys have done it bro, its lame now

2 people did it this season. I'm not saying that it isn't anything, but it might become more commonplace in the near future.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Mackinnon played 1387 minutes this year when games were either tied or within one goal. His PDO during that time was 96.9

He played 483 minutes this year when games were separated by more than one goal. During that time his PDO was 119.3

This is insane.

What's the source for that? (Not disputing it, just curious to see the details).

 

[Outl4w]

Game 6, 2022 Stanley Cup Final. Avalanche are up 3-2 in the series vs the vaunted Tampa Bay Lightning who are looking to become a dynasty.

Nathan MacKinnon 1g 1a for 2 points.
Kucherov no points.

Avalanche win the game 3-2. Series over (4-2) and Avalanche win the cup. The better player elevated his team when it mattered. Great point Outl4w.

Yet he wasn't abke to carry his team to back to back cups.
2 is greater than 1.
Kuch wins again

What's the source for that? (Not disputing it, just curious to see the details).

Time per game x amount of games played
Basic math

 

[Spirits]

Kuch wins again

Except when he had a chance vs Nate Dog and the Avalanche.

 

[Rschmitz]

What's the source for that? (Not disputing it, just curious to see the details).

hockey reference

 

[Outl4w]

Except when he had a chance vs Nate Dog and the Avalanche.

That would have been a 3peat for Kucherov. So yes Mack won one cup but wasn't good enough to carry guns team to two in a row.
Kucherov wins 2 > 1
Mack has one statistical advantage more goals on 100 more shots. He has less points, less ppg, less points per game against top10 teams, less pp points, less points game to second player ln his team, and less points out of total points for his team (offensive production %).
Mack had over 100 more minutes if playing time and wasn't able to get to produce as much points.
Now if you want to compare playoff performances over the years which shouldn't factor in a season mvp, it favors kucherov even more.

 

[tucker3434]

So is kucherov. You would think to be the league mvp you would have to lead the league in multiple categories.

He does in 5v5 categories.

But I really feel like I shouldn't have to explain why a guy that was top 5 in everything could beat guys who were first in some things but 10th in others. There's a reason why Matthews isn't even in this conversation.

 

[Spirits]

That would have been a 3peat for Kucherov. So yes Mack won one cup but wasn't good enough to carry guns team to two in a row.

But it wasn't a threepeat since the Avalanche stomped the piss out of them. I know you don't follow hockey very much but losing our Captain has been a heavy cost. He hasn't played since June 26th 2022.

The rest of your edited post is a great way to deflect from Nate MacKinnon showing up when the series was on the line and Kucherov NOT showing up. Get some.

 

[Outl4w]

But it wasn't a threepeat since the Avalanche stomped the piss out of them. I know you don't follow hockey very much but losing our Captain has been a heavy cost. He hasn't played since June 26th 2022.

We had major injuries when we lost to you guys and I didn't use it as an excuse. Point is better than your captain and he was out when we had the cup finals. Been playing and watching hockey for over 30 years . Still play adult league in the a and b leagues.

 

[onetweasy]

Sadly I won’t be at all surprised if Kuch gets screwed out of a deserved award due to the anti-Tampa/Southern factor, just as Bishop, Hedman, and Vasilevskiy were before him.

It evens out.

Players seemingly only want to play in warm and sunny tax free states and the media simply will not vote for anyone who plays there.

 

[Golden_Jet]

But it wasn't a threepeat since the Avalanche stomped the piss out of them. I know you don't follow hockey very much but losing our Captain has been a heavy cost. He hasn't played since June 26th 2022.

Is Landeskog coming back for playoffs, hockey pool tonight.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

MacKinnon

Anti-Russian for Kucherov (unfortunately)
Voter Fatigue for McDavid

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Looking forward to a summer of whining if the hockey news writers reflect the actual voting for other writers.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Is Landeskog coming back for playoffs, hockey pool tonight.

yes I would love to know the answer for this aswell

Who are ur picks? I joined one and made a CAR/EDM one and a VGK/FLA one lol