Hart Trophy: Who has better claim?

[Bounces R Way]

Kucherov did something only Lemieux and Gretzky have hit before this season. It's him.

 

[Gruyeriev]

Can you make up some stats to prove Mackinnon is a better choice for the mvp at least?

Number 1 in even strength points this season.

 

[OurlordAndSaviorKuch]

This always goes the same way with these threads.

No one is really going to change anyone else’s opinions. We lightning fans are obviously going to say Kuch and Avs fans will say it should be Mac.

 

[Toby91ca]

Kucherov has won the points race by enough that he deserves it.

By how many pts did he win the scoring race?

The voters really want to give him an award and they really don't want to give it to Kucherov for some reason.

? What evidence have you seen to suggest this?

 

[KevinFinnerty]

Panarin

 

[El Travo]

Both are deserving.

My bias says MacKinnon, and I'm the main character in my life so that's the deciding factor.

 

[syz]

Edmonton's record when McDavid has been hurt/out of the lineup this season suggests that he might be pretty valuable to his team.

 

[Rschmitz]

Number 1 in even strength points this season.

Kucherov having 5 more PP points than Mackinnon despite Mack having 40+ more minutes of PP time is remarkable.

 

[Freudian]

I think MacKinnon wins it and it's easy for any voter to come to that conclusion.

• 50+ goals
• +34 vs +8
• Didn't behave like a clown at the all star game
• Haven't won the Hart before, despite deserving it
• More likeable as a person

 

[Goulet17]

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Six more points in the same amount of games played is quite a difference.

That's 4% lol, it's really not.

I honestly don't see the case for MacKinnon. Kucherov has him beat in points + 100 assists factor. Their teammates are comparable, and Kucherov's were not as good this season, making him shoulder more.

100 assists is a completely arbitrary milestone

 

[Gary Bets Man]

That's 4% lol, it's really not.


100 assists is a completely arbitrary milestone

Aren't all milestones completely arbitrary though?

 

[CupsOverCash]

Kucherov did something only Lemieux and Gretzky have hit before this season. It's him.

And first do it as a wing. Maybe it's easier to do it as a wing?

I think MacKinnon wins it and it's easy for any voter to come to that conclusion.

• 50+ goals
• +34 vs +8
• Didn't behave like a clown at the all star game
• Haven't won the Hart before, despite deserving it
• More likeable as a person

He's more marketable hence he will win. Kuch is just as deserving. It shouldn't be about that but we know how these go.

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

Take it fkr what it's worth - Steve Simmons and Bruce Garrioch (both have ballots) said that NHL GMs and Assistant GMs they have spoken with almost unanimously believe Mackinnon is the mvp.

Obviously the GMs don't get to vote, but I think it is worth noting that GMs favor Mackinnon. Both said they are having a hard time choosing, Garioch even said he had Kuch and flipped to Mack , but he could go back.

This is an all time hart race. Two guys just put up 140+. One has 4 more pts but the other has 7 more goals and plays the more valuable position.

Both have great arguments . Kuch had the bigger gap to 2nd, but his top 5 teammates were better. Kuch had a higher percentage of pts , but Mackinnon had the most Even strength pts since 96'. Two of the best seasons in recent memory

 

[DFC]

That's 4% lol, it's really not.


100 assists is a completely arbitrary milestone

Which is why so many people have done it.

 

[Zwui21]

Pretty sure there are lots of people that think Mack is a better player

Pretty sure there are lots who don't.

 

[Moridin]

Kucherov

 

[Zwui21]

Kucherov is not good defensively and this absolutely should (and will) be held against him by some voters.

Have you ever considered the fact that MacKinnon is on the ice with Makar and Toews (deemed the best D pair in the last couple of years) while Kuch has been on the ice with a Lighting Dcore that has been in complete shambles this season?
Don't you think this might factor in on how they look defensively? Or also the fact that the Lightning have the third worst goaltending in the league in terms of goals saved above expected?

 

[Plastic Joseph]

Yup. Short list. Should be Kuch. All 4 have cases but Kuch literally dragged his team all year. 100 assists. Only 5 have ever done it. Five. One is the greatest of this gen. Hope they make the right choice.

If we also look at MacKinnon's totals - 51 goals and 89 assists - only 6 have ever done it. Six. So both guys are putting up numbers that have rarely ever been seen. 100 Assists is arbitrary, its amazing, but it is arbitrary. MacKinnon also has the most even strength pts in 28 years. Both guys had historically great seasons.


Kucherov has many arguments to win, but "100 assists" or "historic season" are not really strong enough on their own this year. They help, but its not a slam dunk. We should ignore arbitrary totals and how rare something is, it should be about who was the MVP, not who had the rarest stat-line.

I mean there are 4 pts separating them, not 10-15. The guy with 4 more pts also has 7 fewer goals. This was not a runaway AR and it won't be a runaway hart either way.

Pretty sure there are lots who don't.

lots do. lots don't . That's why they said it was not some hot take because its very much up for debate

 

[Arthur Morgan]

this season has been crazy. to think Matthews isnt even in consideration for a spot after putting in 9 more goals then it took the last time
only wrong thing here is only one will win

 

[Plastic Joseph]

Which is why so many people have done it.

whether or not something is rare doesn't make it any more or less arbitrary.

Kuch had 44+100, something that has been done by 3 players ever.

MacK had 51+89, something that has been done by 6 players ever.

Was Kucherov's statline rarer? Yes. Does that alone make him the MVP? No, not when its this close and the player with 4 fewer pts in a better 200 ft player and had 7 more goals.

There are so many arguments for both guys. I just wish some people could see that and not resort to calling it a robbery if one guy happens to win it...

 

[Arthur Morgan]

MVPs don’t disrespect the All-Star game. MacK is the pick.

to be fair the All-Star weekend is a joke and it has been for a long time. players dont want to even be there.
you dont even need to be an All-Star anymore to make it.

not sure why people even care. Id rather a guy that cares when it matters over something stupid like the All-Star Skills/Game

 

[TheStatican]

Which is why so many people have done it.

Rarity isn't the only factor that matters - would a 44-100-144 season also be greater than a 150 point season? Apparently you would agree with this, because 100 assists are more 'rare' than 150 points.

 

[DFC]

Rarity isn't the only factor that matters - would a 44-100-144 season also be greater than a 150 point season? Apparently you would agree with this, because 100 assists are more 'rare' than 150 points.

Its actually not more rare than 150 points. Roughly equal. You're proving my point.

 

[Plastic Joseph]

Its actually not more rare than 150 points. Roughly equal. You're proving my point.

luckily the MVP is not synonymous with the rarest stat line

60+80 has been done by 5 different players.
120 assists has been done by 1 player


Would you argue that 25+120 was better than 60+80? Sure , the 120 assists has only been accomplished by gretzky, and 145>140. But I would say that scoring 35 more goals - despite having fewer points and being accomplished more times, is better.

Obviously this is not a direct comparison for the 2 this year, just pointing out how rarity does not mean more valuable as a rule