Tribute Halfway Point Grades

[Al14]

How would we know if he's advocating or not?

Let's see some long term changes, then I might believe he has been advocating for fairer referring behind the scenes.

I think he is still keeping his options open for a return to employment with the NHL. If he were serious about our Leafs winning a Stanley Cup, why the hell has he not built our Leafs with players that played hockey the way he did? We're too soft with skill and almost NO physicality. JMHO.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Nice post. I agree completely and that's why I do NOT want to trade top future assets for a rental player. They'll either play like they can, or they won't But I also agree that if we do get someone, it would be someone who has the attributes you mention and Toews, now that is intriguing. I wonder if he could be had without parting with our best futures?

Honestly I think it can be done very easily TBH. I think prices for rentals will be as low as they have ever been potentially just given the Bedard factor. Sellers will be selling for nothing in a pursuit to get as bad as possible, as soon as possible. If ever there was a year to tank, it is this year. If you miss on getting the 1st OA, you still have Fantilli, Carlsson, and Michkov as franchise altering selections in the top 4.

Kyle Dubas has shown in the past that he likes to get ahead of the deadline and make that acquisition well in advance of the TDL. I think with Bedard being so fresh in everyone's mind, right now will be a really good time to pounce on low price points for rentals. Muzz looks like he will not return for a very long time, if at all. So I am assuming his LTIR space can be utilized in a decently large capacity. Especially if we send a contract the other way.

I know Jonathon Toews may not be the name people instantly think of wanting to be a Leaf. Especially given his high AAV. But the way I see it, is this could be our Gio 2.0. Acquire an aging vet at the deadline. Show them what we are about, and hope they sign a sweetheart deal the following summer. Toews is a proven winner at every level. He's got balls the size of church bells, and he has enough gas left in the tank to have his voice still be massively respected even if he can't produce the way he once did. He's 64% on FO this season, and he'd be able to contribute anywhere in the lineup. But his biggest impact will come from the 3 Stanley Cups he captained the Blackhawks to, along with 1 Conn Smythe, 2x Olympic gold medals, and World Junior stud. There has never been a moment too big for him.

He'd be my target. He's likely not going to be the top target at the TDL, which should already make his value less then others. And as we saw with Gio and Ben Chiarat last season, the team who pays the most at the deadline for a player doesn't always mean they got the best player. Gio has been a staple in our top 4 since arriving, and FLA is potentially/likely giving up a chance at Bedard for 30 games of trash hockey.

Not to mention Chicago actively trying to lose, so I am pretty sure this deal could be done anytime for any price. Not to mention no team could absorb his entire 10.5AAV, so 50% retention is basically a given on their end no matter what team they deal him to. So its not like you'd even have to pay extra for the retention, as the only way they'll be able to facilitate a trade anywhere would be to retain.

Aside from him not being a former Soo Greyhound, I think he checks all the boxes.

 

[ACC1224]

Let's see some long term changes, then I might believe he has been advocating for fairer referring behind the scenes.

I think he is still keeping his options open for a return to employment with the NHL. If he were serious about our Leafs winning a Stanley Cup, why the hell has he not built our Leafs with players that played hockey the way he did? We're too soft with skill and almost NO physicality. JMHO.

He's the President, the GM builds the team.

 

[Al14]

He's the President, the GM builds the team.

Well, as the GM's boss, he should have some influence. And how long did Dubas play hockey in the NHL? Not at all, well then, Shanahan needs to be more involved with the team building IMHO!

I still say Shanahan should want his GM to mirror how he played hockey with a lot of success.

 

[ACC1224]

Well, as the GM's boss, he should have some influence. And how long did Dubas play hockey in the NHL? Not at all, well then, Shanahan needs to be more involved with the team building IMHO!

I still say Shanahan should want his GM to mirror how he played hockey with a lot of success.

If Shanahan wanted to be GM he would have taken a dual role. You hire someone and let them do the job.
I'm not a Shanahan fan myself but I agree that he has to let the people he put in place do their jobs. No different than any big business.

 

[Notsince67]

Nice addition.

I agree with you on number 2, but I feel our other D are good enough to overcome most of his nonsense (which has been extremely limited lately). The improved forward defensive play also contributes to less mistakes I believe.

I would add something that I would put at # 1 for me. Goaltending. I love what I have seen overall, but I have concerns. I think we are stuck with these guys through the season and playoffs, so I hope to hell they are their best selves when it matters the most.

I like the depth of the D as well but Keefe has seemed reluctant to replace Holl for a spell during those periods. As for the goaltending, I'm pretty sure that if there are any issues with play, we may see a forced movement into IR and a season debut of Woll who has been pretty good this year. Goalies always have some nagging injury that could use a rest.

 

[wingman75]

I like the depth of the D as well but Keefe has seemed reluctant to replace Holl for a spell during those periods. As for the goaltending, I'm pretty sure that if there are any issues with play, we may see a forced movement into IR and a season debut of Woll who has been pretty good this year. Goalies always have some nagging injury that could use a rest.

Good point on Woll. He is back and healthy and was always supposed to be our #3 for this season. Suspect you are right that if things go off the rails with either Murray or Samsonov, he is ready to step in and do what he can.

 

[Al14]

If Shanahan wanted to be GM he would have taken a dual role. You hire someone and let them do the job.
I'm not a Shanahan fan myself but I agree that he has to let the people he put in place do their jobs. No different than any big business.

Again, if he decides he has should have no influence on the building of the team, our failures are as much on him as anyone. He needs to decide when Dubas has had his time.

Because there has been no Dubas extension, maybe this is his final kick at the can.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Honestly I think it can be done very easily TBH. I think prices for rentals will be as low as they have ever been potentially just given the Bedard factor. Sellers will be selling for nothing in a pursuit to get as bad as possible, as soon as possible. If ever there was a year to tank, it is this year. If you miss on getting the 1st OA, you still have Fantilli, Carlsson, and Michkov as franchise altering selections in the top 4.

Kyle Dubas has shown in the past that he likes to get ahead of the deadline and make that acquisition well in advance of the TDL. I think with Bedard being so fresh in everyone's mind, right now will be a really good time to pounce on low price points for rentals. Muzz looks like he will not return for a very long time, if at all. So I am assuming his LTIR space can be utilized in a decently large capacity. Especially if we send a contract the other way.

I know Jonathon Toews may not be the name people instantly think of wanting to be a Leaf. Especially given his high AAV. But the way I see it, is this could be our Gio 2.0. Acquire an aging vet at the deadline. Show them what we are about, and hope they sign a sweetheart deal the following summer. Toews is a proven winner at every level. He's got balls the size of church bells, and he has enough gas left in the tank to have his voice still be massively respected even if he can't produce the way he once did. He's 64% on FO this season, and he'd be able to contribute anywhere in the lineup. But his biggest impact will come from the 3 Stanley Cups he captained the Blackhawks to, along with 1 Conn Smythe, 2x Olympic gold medals, and World Junior stud. There has never been a moment too big for him.

He'd be my target. He's likely not going to be the top target at the TDL, which should already make his value less then others. And as we saw with Gio and Ben Chiarat last season, the team who pays the most at the deadline for a player doesn't always mean they got the best player. Gio has been a staple in our top 4 since arriving, and FLA is potentially/likely giving up a chance at Bedard for 30 games of trash hockey.

Not to mention Chicago actively trying to lose, so I am pretty sure this deal could be done anytime for any price. Not to mention no team could absorb his entire 10.5AAV, so 50% retention is basically a given on their end no matter what team they deal him to. So its not like you'd even have to pay extra for the retention, as the only way they'll be able to facilitate a trade anywhere would be to retain.

Aside from him not being a former Soo Greyhound, I think he checks all the boxes.

Agree 100%, he's exactly what we need. Our problem in losing 5 game 7's in a row hasn't been that we're missing this piece or that piece, it's that we can't seem to play up to our potential and when game 7 arrives, we somehow manage to play some of worst hockey of the year. So yeah, we don't need this piece or that piece, we need a glue guy to help hold it all together and he'd be perfect! If we could get him for a similar price as what we paid for Giordano, that would be the dream. And you're right, Dubas isn't the type to wait until the last minute and CHI would be motivated to trade him sooner as opposed to later so I say, get it done now.

 

[ACC1224]

Again, if he decides he has should have no influence on the building of the team, our failures are as much on him as anyone. He needs to decide when Dubas has had his time.

Because there has been no Dubas extension, maybe this is his final kick at the can.

Yes, that will be his decision.

 

[Judas Tavares]

Don't have a chance atm to put in my grades. But I will say this based on early results of the poll. From how doom and gloom this place was, I'd say the team has overachieved. If after the offseason you said, at game 41, the team will be tied for 2nd in the league, I think this board would have been overjoyed at the offseason that was had.

So in terms of where we all want them to be, ya maybe they have met expectations if you wanted top 2 in the league and nothing else was acceptable. In terms of where this board deep down expected them to be based of reactions to the offseason, ya, this poll should be highly swayed in the overachieving direction.

Once you set aside little nitpicks and remember that teams lose games (unless you are Boston lol), teams let in goals. Pretty much every game. Teams let in stinky goals. Teams don't play well all 82 games. I think once you understand (which we all do) that in a vacuum, rather than base everything off one game, I think many should be quite pleased.

Grades

Forwards B: It was a rough go to start the year but many players have turned it on of late.

Defense A: They've been great, not sure how you can expect much more at this point.

Goaltending B+: Health and Kallgren are the only reason they aren't an A.

Coaching: B+: Tough to evaluate but can't find too much I hate. Kudos to recently fixing the OT issue, but honestly that to me was the players' brains more than anything strategical.

Management: B+: Was skeptical of Murray but he has been great. Always loved the Samsonov and Jarnkrok moves. Timmins has been awesome. I would have sold high on Kerfoot in the offseason.

Thoughts

Best Player: Nylander and dare I say Liljegren

Worst Player: Engvall

Biggest Surprise: Timmins and Holmberg

Biggest Disappointment: October and/or the OT troubles

Biggest Need: top 6 player that can do a bit of everything but do it better and more efficiently than someone like Kerfoot

 

[Gabriel426]

They met expectations.

Willie is the most consistent player so far this season.
Holmberg and Timmins are great add and so is ZAR.
Lilly is still the most under appreciated player on the team as defence improve the moment he came back from injuries.
Gio is the unsung hero.
Disappointment is Kerfoot, he needs to be better.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I voted overachieved. I thought they would have less points than what they are sitting at.

I'm happy to be wrong.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I somewhat agree with the above sentiments about Shanahan. Yes he's not the GM, but there certainly are quite a few managerial decisions that passed through him: fire the original coach/GM. Hire Lou, hire Dubas/Hunter, hire Babcock, fire Babcock, make Dubas the GM, hire Keefe, etc.

Yeah it's not drafting, contracts, trading, cap management, etc. It sure is things that a President AND GM would do.

A failure this spring could mean the end of Shanny, Dubas, and Keefe.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Agree 100%, he's exactly what we need. Our problem in losing 5 game 7's in a row hasn't been that we're missing this piece or that piece, it's that we can't seem to play up to our potential and when game 7 arrives, we somehow manage to play some of worst hockey of the year. So yeah, we don't need this piece or that piece, we need a glue guy to help hold it all together and he'd be perfect! If we could get him for a similar price as what we paid for Giordano, that would be the dream. And you're right, Dubas isn't the type to wait until the last minute and CHI would be motivated to trade him sooner as opposed to later so I say, get it done now.

I think the only caveat to this narrative was last year against TB. We showed up in games 6 an 7 and kind of got f***ed in game 6 by poor officiating, and just lost in a coin flip game 7. But the boys put forward an effort they should be proud of. The other times 100% they did not play to their potential.

Jonah Hill put out a phenomenal documentary on Netflix about his relationship with his counsellor. One that is incredibly relatable for most people, the Leafs being no different. He talks about pain, uncertainty, and constant work being the only things in life that you will never be free from. That no matter what idea of success you have in your own mind that will set you free from those 3 things, they will always be present in your life.

ie. The Leaf players may be thinking, If we get past the first round then I'll be able to breath easier and play my game. When in reality that is unlikely to be true. Sure they'll benefit from the success by gaining confidence, but that will just move the goalposts. The only way to minimize the impact of the pain, uncertainty and constant work is to become comfortable with that aspect of your life. As it is never going to go away.

The Leafs need to grow comfortable with the idea that losing in round 1 again is not the end of the world. And conversely, winning in round 1 does not void them of their previous failures and insecurities. They've been a "failure" before and they've live to tell the tale the next day. Instead of fearing what could come from a loss, learn to understand that losing is the familiar place. There is really nothing to fear with the known. Just go out and play hockey and leave it all out there. The results will follow.

Obviously this is all easier said then done. We all battle daily with stress and expectation. So who am I to say just play hockey. But I've always maintained the belief that the only thing holding this team back is themselves. Not the roster construction or coaching. Until our difference makers step up in those key moments, we will unfortunately be in the same boat.

I think having a guy like Toews, who's been there and done that will go a long way in helping our top guys live up to that potential in those big moments. They took a big steps last playoffs, we just need a little more of that this year.

 

[LeafsNation75]

If Shanahan wanted to be GM he would have taken a dual role. You hire someone and let them do the job.
I'm not a Shanahan fan myself but I agree that he has to let the people he put in place do their jobs. No different than any big business.

There was that one time after Toronto got eliminated by Boston in 2019 and it was reported that Dubas wanted to fire Babcock after that happened. However, Shanahan stepped in and told him not to do that. Although he later admitted he was wrong and said Dubas should have done it when he wanted to.

 

[nsleaf]

Met expectations, but not how I expected. With defence!

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Our goaltending has definitely exceeded my expectation.

I’d also say Nylander has surprised me, he’s probably been our best player this season.


Grades

Forwards - B+

Defense - B+

Goaltending - A-

Coaching - B+

Management - B+

Thoughts

Best Player - William Nylander

Worst Player - Wayne Simmonds

Biggest Surprise - Conor Timmins and Pontus Holmberg

Biggest Disappointment - Alex Kerfoot

Biggest Need - Third line center

HERE HERE .. I have almost exact same overall assessment .. only adds would be i think you could flip a coin between Willy and Mitch and you could not go wrong with either answer .. and then another depth D would not hurt either but only after we get a 3rd line C

 

[notDatsyuk]

Only on the second page and it's already deteriorated into the usual "who do we blame and who do we trade for to fix it".

There are already 157 threads that have turned into that exact same topic.

 

[ITM]

Forwards: B: A perpetual Rocket candidate would be nice, but I see the improved overall game in Matthews, Nylander, a revived Tavares and refocused Marner as being very good signs for the playoffs. A B grade is appropriate because we lack championship depth and I don't think the cost is going to be a small one.

Defense: B+: Great collective effort. What more can be said about Giordano. Nice to see Lilly and Sandin take steps forward; Hello right-shot Timmins - keep 'er going.

Goaltending: A: The question of expectation needs to be repeated after Round 1; Here's hoping Murray is THE answer.

Coaching: B: It's the regular season. Progressive increase in regular season performance will yield to an average...that means little if we don't progress in the post-season...so, good job meeting reasonable regular season expectations.

Management: A: Not caving to Campbell, seeing the potential (again) in Murray and getting Samsonov to back-up was a series of swings that all hit; Jarnkrok has been good; Rewarding Holmberg is another good move; Nabbing Timmins for my off-season hopeful insertion (and wrong about being apprehensive in the loss). A plus would have been attached if Kerfoot had been moved.

But these are the steps of a right-thinking management team.

Best Player: Matt Murray. HM: Auston Matthews and William Nylander; Like them together a lot.

Worst Player(s): Usual suspects; But Kerfoot is still here so it's hard to think of others.

Biggest Surprise: Matt Murray. I feared the worst.

Biggest Disappointment: Salming's Tribute Night without a win for the King. Yes I know it's about a player, however...

Biggest Need: One GM who doesn't see the need to keep at any of what need anywhere near market price; And keeping our 1st: Either for the draft or for a player who won't Foligno us.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Giving myself an A+++

 

[therealkoho]

If any of you have time watch the Sabres tonight, they are cooking with gas and a lot of fun to watch.

 

[ACC1224]

If any of you have time watch the Sabres tonight, they are cooking with gas and a lot of fun to watch.

I’d rather remember them how they were.

 

[Anthrax442]

So far so good. I'd say they are about where my expectation were. But again, whatever happens before playoffs is moot anyway.

 

[Confucius]

Losing Mikheyev, Kase and Campbell, thought we would be worse than tied for 2nd overall in points. Sure turns out we may have been worse off if Campbell stayed but we don’t know that for sure. So I voted overachieved.