Had Ken Dryden retired in 1974, who replaces him?

[Normand Lacombe]

The shocking retirements thread gave me thought to this scenario regarding Ken Dryden. While his retirement in 1979 was somewhat surprising, I wonder what would have happened had Dryden decided to retire in 1974 to pursue a career as a lawyer full time. Who would have Sam Pollack pursued to replace Dryden?

Montreal's goalies in 73-74 were Wayne Thomas, Michel Larocque and Michel Plasse. None of them were the answers as Montreal went down in 6 games to the Rangers in the opening round of the playoffs. Without Dryden returning in 74-75, what would Pollack have done to acquire a front line goalie in a market that was diluted thanks to expansion and the WHA?

Rogie Vachon and Gilles Meloche are the only two goalies that I can think off the top of my head that Pollack could possibly have acquired. Were there any other goalies besides Meloche and Vachon that could have been acquired prior to the 74-75 season? What was Montreal's goaltending depth in the minors like at this time?

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[reckoning]

The year before, Boston had traded Fred Stanfield for Gilles Gilbert, so that might be an indicator of the value of a typical starter at the time. Montreal had 5 first round picks in the '74 draft, so they could have put together a decent package to trade for somebody like Dan Bouchard or a young John Davidson.

Glenn Resch had been Montreal property, but was traded to the Islanders two years earlier.

I can't think of anyone in their system at the time who went on to have a NHL career. There was a goalie in the late-70s (I can't remember his name) who got called up to the Habs when Larocque got injured and dressed as a backup to Dryden for about 20 games, but never saw a minute of actual playing time. If he never got a start against one of the weaker teams, it would seem to indicate that they didn't have much faith in him.

 

[Canadiens1958]

The year before, Boston had traded Fred Stanfield for Gilles Gilbert, so that might be an indicator of the value of a typical starter at the time. Montreal had 5 first round picks in the '74 draft, so they could have put together a decent package to trade for somebody like Dan Bouchard or a young John Davidson.

Glenn Resch had been Montreal property, but was traded to the Islanders two years earlier.

I can't think of anyone in their system at the time who went on to have a NHL career. There was a goalie in the late-70s (I can't remember his name) who got called up to the Habs when Larocque got injured and dressed as a backup to Dryden for about 20 games, but never saw a minute of actual playing time. If he never got a start against one of the weaker teams, it would seem to indicate that they didn't have much faith in him.

Dave Elenbaas who also played at Cornell.

Richard Brodeur, Islander pick, playing for the WHA Nordiques was a possibility.

 

[crobro]

Gary suitcase smith had a lights out year in 74-75 not sure if he’s ever been Montreal property

 

[Sanf]

Dave Elenbaas who also played at Cornell.

Richard Brodeur, Islander pick, playing for the WHA Nordiques was a possibility.

Overall that was the direction that they were looking at. Ed Walsh was in the goalie depth from 1974 to 1978 and then there was Peter Proulx from 1973 to 1976. Walsh played in Boston University and Proulx in Dartmouth College.

I know next to nothing about Proulx, but Walsh was American goalie. He was first team All-Star in AHL at 75 and 77. Was MVP (Les Cunningham award) runner-up in 75. And with Elenbaas shared the Hap Holmes trophy three seasons a row. He was also invited to Team USA training camp for 76 Canada Cup.

Despite having a reputation of being one of the best goalies outside NHL he never made it.

 

[wetcoast]

Montreal did have 5 first round picks so maybe they trade for a goalie.

Ironically the 74 draft had a better 2nd round than first round in terms of impact and better players.

But who knows they didn't exactly lose that series because of goal tenting they were outscored 21-17 and breakout seasons for some of their future stars didn't happen until the following season.

The NYR had a very good team and took the eventual SC champions to game 7 and only lost by 1 goal in that final game.

Even the season where Dryden came back they lost to Buffalo in the semis and Dryden wasn't a difference even in their first dynasty SC run, if anything the Flyers lost a close series due to not have Parent.

Sure the Habs swept the Flyers but the first 3 games it was by 1 goal and in game 4 it was by 2 goals.

 

[Michael Farkas]

My head immediately went to "try to get Vachon back"...

The Kings limped to a 78-point finish in 1974 and got waxed by a Chicago team that had Tony Esposito at goalie...ya know, the guy that never wins playoff series...he went 4-0, stopping 111 of 113 shots in the series.

Rookie GM Jake Milford took over during the 1974 season and might have been eager to make a splash to improve offense...

Their recent drafts had been a disaster...
1971: Two guys play in the league, Vic Venasky and Neil Komadoski, but both had done nothing by 1974.
1972: Dan Kozak pans out, but Dave Hutchinson was in the WHA at this point. (They dumped their 1972 first round pick back in 1968 for Gerry Desjardins)
1973: Was empty.

They dealt their 1970 first round pick for Skip Krake (yeah, me neither)...
They dealt their 1971 and '73 first round picks for 80 games of Eddie Shack and Ross Lonsberry.

Like mentioned above, the Habs had five top-15 picks in 1974, the Kings had zero in the top-40. Not that the Kings liked draft picks, but Lefley, some useless prospects, and two firsts for Vachon might have worked...maybe...

 

[Johnny Engine]

They dealt their 1970 first round pick for Skip Krake (yeah, me neither)...

I, however do recognize that name.
...from an article I read one time about the Kings' early draft futility, which made a crack about how they constantly traded their picks for "journeymen, stiffs and a guy named Skip".

 

[Normand Lacombe]

But who knows they didn't exactly lose that series because of goal tenting they were outscored 21-17 and breakout seasons for some of their future stars didn't happen until the following season.

The NYR had a very good team and took the eventual SC champions to game 7 and only lost by 1 goal in that final game.

Larocque was a rookie and played every minute of that Ranger series. Having never saw Larocque play, could he have developed into the number one starter eventually?

 

[Normand Lacombe]

Like mentioned above, the Habs had five top-15 picks in 1974, the Kings had zero in the top-40. Not that the Kings liked draft picks, but Lefley, some useless prospects, and two firsts for Vachon might have worked...maybe...

Maybe is the key word. Vachon was the only star on the pre-Dionne Kings and Milford could have drove a hard bargain and demanded a few active players, which could have thrown a wrench into the budding Hab's dynasty depending upon whom those players were. Out of the all the names mentioned in this thread as possible replacements for Dryden, Vachon would have been the best fit. Played in Montreal for 5 seasons, backstopping them to the 1969 Cup and could withstand the pressure of being the number 1 goalie in Montreal.

 

[Sanf]

It´s difficult to guess. I can´t remember any rumours about them trying to acquire any goalies. Vachon was in quite good place in Kings. And when you think that Montreal wasn´t ready to pay Dryden what he wanted for 73-74, how much assets they would had been ready to pay for Vachon. Considering they already once considered him replaceable.

Other name that came to my mind is another familiar name to Montreal, Phil Myre. I´m not sure if I remember it correct, but he may have been unhappy with Canadiens. And Myre signed quite big contract with Flames in summer of 74 (though after Dryden had said he would comeback) so Myre might not have been available anyway

Only other name that I can think of is Gilles Villemure. Veteran, but still third team All-Star in 73. Had injury riddled season in 73-74 and was apparently unhappy and there was trade rumours. Dave Dryden went after money to WHA and I don´t think Wayne Stephenson at that point would have been name that create that much interest.

So when Canadiens did have zero confidence on Thomas, Elenbaas and Walsh my guess is that they go to 1974-1975 with Larocque and Villemure.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Larocque was a rookie and played every minute of that Ranger series. Having never saw Larocque play, could he have developed into the number one starter eventually?

That was the idea but it never worked out for Larocque.

 

[snuffelapagus]

Montreal did have 5 first round picks so maybe they trade for a goalie.

Ironically the 74 draft had a better 2nd round than first round in terms of impact and better players.

But who knows they didn't exactly lose that series because of goal tenting they were outscored 21-17 and breakout seasons for some of their future stars didn't happen until the following season.

The NYR had a very good team and took the eventual SC champions to game 7 and only lost by 1 goal in that final game.

Even the season where Dryden came back they lost to Buffalo in the semis and Dryden wasn't a difference even in their first dynasty SC run, if anything the Flyers lost a close series due to not have Parent.

Sure the Habs swept the Flyers but the first 3 games it was by 1 goal and in game 4 it was by 2 goals.

Are you saying that Dryden would not have made a difference in '74? As stated it was a fairly close series in terms of goals and if I recall correctly, the series was tied 2-2 and the Rangers won game 5 in OT.

The Sabres were always tough for the Habs, as they were one of the few teams that could skate with them. Dryden was still rusty in 75, but I believe had he played in 73-74 he would have been better all year in 74-75 including in the playoffs. Habs blew out the Sabres in games 3 and 4 at the forum (one of those games had a potentially series turning bench clearing brawl). They lost game 5 at the Aud in OT and a close game 6 back at the Forum. Non-sabbatical Dryden may have made a difference in that series.

You also posit that Dryden did not make a difference in the '76 Final then go on to state that each game was closely contested belying the 4-0 outcome. Had there been a sub-Dryden goaltender in that series does it not make sense some of those games go to the defending champs? The obvious disappointment of 76 is that we did not get to see Parent and MacLeish compete in the finals. As it stands, I think Dryden is an absolute difference maker in this series, especially in light of the thread's hypothetical retirement scenario and the discussed replacements.

I suppose many will disagree, but the Habs may not have won any cups 76-79 with any of Bouchard, Meloche, Larocque and most other replacements suggested in this thread. Perhaps Vachon could have led them to a championship or two, but his game deteriorated pretty precipitously after 1977. An interesting "what if" might be is if the Habs kept Tony-O and the Bruins held on to Dryden...

 

[tony d]

I think they kick the tires on getting either Rogie Vachon or Dan Bouchard.

 

[Big Phil]

You've got Montreal and you have Sam Pollock with a cupboard full of options. If anyone could pull a rabbit out of his hat it would be Pollock. I honestly don't think anyone is "off" the table per se. Maybe not Parent, since Philly would never have gotten rid of him. But has anyone thought about Cheevers? Sure he is Boston's property in the NHL but he's in the WHA then. Maybe a deal for his NHL rights and he comes back to the NHL then? I honestly don't know how that would work out but maybe.

Getting Vachon back is the most likely of scenarios though. Or even the Rangers giving up one of their goalies at the time.

 

[cupcrazyman]

I first started watching hockey as a kid in 1976 & thought Dryden & the Habs won the cup every year.

 

[MS]

They surely would have rolled with Larocque for at least a year or two. He’d been the #6 overall pick in the draft, had a very nice rookie year, and was probably the best young goalie in the NHL at that point.

And those Montreal teams tended to promote from within whenever possible. The only player on this 1974 Habs who wasn’t homegrown was Frank Mahovlich.