Habs Off-season Part 3: Forward Group
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Habs Icing
Formerly Onice
That excerpt is the most important part of that article and if we want to contend for the Cup next year we need to bring that number to 6 not 5 top six forwards.
Absolutely right. Just adding one more top-6 forward in the offseason will far from solve our scoring woes. Legitimate, proven depth wise, we don't have an oar or a rudder and that creek is full of...
We also have about 4-5 prospects that are at the point where they can contribute (or are very close) to a top 9 scoring role in the NHL: Andrighetto, Carr, Hudon, Lekonen, Reway. Whatever holes are left after UFA signings (I'm hoping for at least 1 solid UFA top 6 winger), the remaining spots need to be filled by these guys, NOT by promoting 4th line grinders into the top 9. Guys like Mitchell, Flynn, Danault, De La Rose, Byron, Matteau, etc. Should not be seeing top 9 ice time.
That type of player usage, in my opinion, is more important than signing a 2nd UFA winger.
Habs Icing
Formerly Onice
Honestly, for the first part of next season, I don't want to see Carr, Hudon, Andrighetto, Lehkonen or Reway on the top two lines.
MB has to acquire two legit top six fowards. Ideally, a #1 right winger and a #2 left winger. I'll live with two second line wingers.
I don't want to start the year with only 5 proven top six players. You're starting the year at a disadvantage and what happens if you get an injury. You're back down to four. With six legit players it slots everyone else down into their proper place. If one or more of the prospects prove they can handle top six duties, well, we'll be in a great position to upgrade our defence come trade deadline.
So the 5 players you mentioned Have 81 gsmes combined and they're ready for top 9 roles ? Wow!!!
You do realize every team has these prospects you mention, every team. If he Habs go into the year with lekhonen /andrighetto /carr in the top 9 , this team will depend on price as usual. Reway is no where close to being ready neither is lekhonen. They both need AHL seasoning. They may never be ready. How bout Bergrvin go out and and acquire a true top 6 forward
Kraken Jokes
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Desharnais
69th overall
~to Columbus for~
Hartnell
Boll
This is an HF approved deal. We can buyout Boll where he's going into his final year. I also vote we move Flynn for a mid pick, I like him, there may be interest, but I think he'd be the odd man out. We seriously have too many waiver eligible 4th liners right now.
69th overall
~to Columbus for~
Hartnell
Boll
This is an HF approved deal. We can buyout Boll where he's going into his final year. I also vote we move Flynn for a mid pick, I like him, there may be interest, but I think he'd be the odd man out. We seriously have too many waiver eligible 4th liners right now.
Sorinth
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- Jan 18, 2013
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Take away the deadline deals and you won't find many teams with 6 legitimate top-6 guys.
The 5th and 6th most productive forwards
Anaheim: 39 & 32
Boston: 49 & 37
Chicago: 35 & 33 (in 64 games)
Dallas: 39 & 35
Flo: 53 & 50
LA: 36 & 28
NYR: 43 & 36 (in 60)
Pittsburgh: 42 & 32
SJS: 43 & 36 (in 52 games)
St-Louis: 39 & 37
Tampa: 38(in 69 games) & 35
Washington: 51 & 46
There's maybe 4 teams with 6 top-6 guys, the other teams all have one or two 30 point players filling out their top-6.
Give a guy like Andrighetto top-6 minutes all season and he'll like have 30-35 points as well. All we need is one high end scorer and we match up decently offensively against any team.
Habs Icing
Formerly Onice
Do you want the Habs to contend for the Cup next season or do you need another year of incompetence to complain about? Lots of teams also don't have world class goaltending so according to the logic you posted, we'll be alright with a goalie of lesser value. We don't want to be many teams. We want to be the elite Cup contending team.
The four final teams had six top six forwards. Whether they got the points this year is another matter. Injuries could explain some of it. If we start the season with 5 legit top six, what happens if you have an injury? You go back to four.
Most of the posters want to put the whole blame on therrien for our anemic PP. Maybe having only 4 legit top six players explains alot.
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Very rare to have a team with 6 legitimate top 6 players....
Every team, even both teams presently in the Stanley Cup playoffs, have role players playing in top 6 roles (Donskoi, Sheary, Bonino)
Adding one top 6 forward, a proven, legitimate top 6 player would be a huge step in the right direction....adding 2 would be very difficult given the salary cap, see nearly impossible.
get25
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- Oct 17, 2015
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Lehkonen has two seasons in SHL. That is much better than AHL.
He was the best scorer in SHL PO.
I would not be surprised to see him getting top-6 role. At least a top-9.
To be frank, I expect 40+ points from him.
Ghetto and Carr have been pretty good and can certainly play top-9.
So we have Eller, Ghetto, Carr, Lehkonen, Eller and DD on the top-9.
Pretty sure that one top-6 player added would do the job.
That would give us 11 players competing for 9 spots.
Going after Stamkos, Okposo, Erikson would be great but on the long run we will have to pay for them for 7 years.
We need one more... One Physical RW who can score 35+ points is all we need.
Reway is another story. For me he is a wild card. We will see what he is going to do in AHL. He is still 15 lbs heavier than Byron with so much skills.
There also other options: McCaron, Sherback, Hudon, DLR.
With these we have 14 players competing for 13 spots (9 spots because they will be in AHL unless they can play top-9).
All other players are trying to get in bottom-3: Flynn, Mitchell, Byron, Matteau, Lessio, Danault.
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Sorinth
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I noted where injuries had an impact. Pittsburgh 6th best forward had 32 points this year. St-Louis's had 37, and Tampa had 35. So only one team in the final 4 actually had 6 top-six forwards.
If all you need is 35ish points to be top-6 then I'd argue a guy like Andrighetto is one already.
In terms of injuries you need guys who can step in and do ok in the top-6. Guys like Carr this year did fine in a top-6 role for example, and allows you to survive injuries.
If you think to be a contender we needs the best offence, the best defence, the best goaltending, and enough depth at every position to not miss a beat through injuries then you're expectations are too high.
No team is that good. Replace Desharnais with Stamkos and we have +25-30ish goals. That would puts us at 3rd most GFs. What more do you actually want?
That`s what we really need one elite player.
get25
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Sheary is a role player but the Bonino-Hagelin-Kessel line could be the second line in many teams.
While Crosby and Malkin are keeping other teams on their toes, that line has been scoring like top-6 (if not top-3).
In fact, they are top-5 in Scoring with Crosby and Malkin being 3rd and 4th respectively. Letang is 6th.
get25
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We can not afford a 84M contract for Stamkos.
If you pay Stamkos that kind of money, how much are you going to pay Price, Patches, Galchenyuk?
If Kane and Toews got 10.5M a year ahead of becoming UFA, then Stamkos is in line for 7X12M.
So we will have to deal with 15-20 Goals from Ghetto, 15-20 Goals from Lehkonen and maybe a UFA who can play top-6/top-9 with 15-20 Goals.
To be frank, I really like what the Pens and SJS are showing us with top-9
Especially the third line of the Pens (Bonino-Hagelin-Kessel).
Top Corner2
Registered User
Agreed but doesn't change the fact Bonino is a role player - a quality one
He had 29pts this year, same as David Desharnais....anyone here think he's a legit top 6 player?
Sorinth
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First I doubt it takes 12m to sign Stamkos
Second by the time Patches is up for renewal, Emelin, Desharnais, Plekanec, Eller will be off the books and could be replaced by cheaper players
Third the cap will have gone up, just using the cap inflator it will be nearly 82m when Patches contract is up so we actually could afford to give Stamkos 12m if we really wanted to.
Fourth, in 3 years when Pacioretty is up for renewal we might prefer to let him go and keep Stamkos, especially if Patches hasn't picked it up in the playoffs by then
Stamkos @ 12, Pacioretty & Galchenyuk @ 7 each, Gallagher @ 3.75, Andrighetto, Hudon, Carr, McCarron, Sherback @ 2.3 each (average), 4th liners + 2 spare forwards 4.25, Subban @ 9, Petry @ 5.5, Beaulieu @ 4, Pateryn @ 1.2, a vet UFA at 2.5, 5th and 6th guys @ 0.7 each, Price @ 10, Backup @ 0.7
Total is 79.8m, so we even have a few million to spare in case someone breaks out.
Getting 15-20 goals rookies is great but it doesn't actually improve much because the players currently in those roles are producing similar numbers so the net increase in goals is actually small.That's why we nee a guy like Stamkos, because there is a big net increase.
EDIT: And if we had Pittsburgh's team, I'm sure you would've claimed we claimed it would be a mistake to go after Kessel and his big contract because we have so much money tied up in Crosby, Malkin, Letang.
From what I read he said that we would also sign a good UFA. Basically we would have Max-AG-Gally, UFA-PLeks-Trade/Eller and then fill out the bottom lines with the players he named. Eventually one of them could break out that they can be moved up to the 2nd line.
That makes sense. Carr and Ghetto need to be put in offensive situation to see if they can be impact players or else we need to trade or move them its that time. One of his long shots could steal a spot at camp it happend with Gally so you never know. As long as we also bring in 1 or 2 more forwards from trade/UFA thats what should be done.
Interesting deal. Risky because we take on Hartnell but he is a 20 goal scorer. His cap aint to bad at 4.75. The concern is if he turns into a Dustin Brown.
If MB did Hartnell and Perron would you consider that a good summer?
I would rather risk Okposo or Stamkos, but Hartnell over Ladd is intersting.
Imagine we get Hartnel and trade our 9 OA for JVR?
Also the habs don't need to be the best GF team. We have Price he is our secret(well not so much) weapon. We just need a middle of the pack offense and PP and with Price we will be a top team in the NHL. Shave off 30 to 40 goals off are GA this year and we finish top of the league for sure and you know Price can do that.
Pitts is lucky enough to have drafted two of the best centers in the game. Automatically no matter which line those two are on it makes them defacto line 1 and 2. Like you said Pitts 3rd line is really a 2nd line. Are Sheary and Rush really top 6 players?
Habs are not lucky enough to have a Malkin and Crosby signed at Pre cap circumventing contracts. All that to say we will never be the Pens, but we can still get more talent and for sure an elite one. This team will live and die with its goalie so Price just needs a little bit more help so he does not have to be in god mode every game.
MarkovsKnee
Global Moderator
Agreed we need one guy. One!! If we have 5 legitimate top 6, and Pleks is still top 6 even if he sucked in the 2nd half he still put up 54 points, then we can make due with Carr/Ghetto/Lehkonen fighting it out for the 6th spot.
The other 2 go to the 3rd line where they can hopefully provide some scoring depth.
4th line is mad scramble of players of all ilk.
But, yeah, we need one more guy.
I totally agree. People complain that our prospect pool is full of depth, with no high end talent. That's mostly true, so we have to use that depth to our advantage by having them fill out roles on the middle/lower lines for cheap. That way we can address what we lack (high end talent) from UFA and/or trades.
I do not want to see MB go out and pay UFA-inflated prices for middle-6 wingers that will perform at a similar level as the pool of NHL-ready prospects we already have, all of whom make less than $1M.
