Confirmed with Link: Habs name Nick Bobrov co-director of amateur scouting and Vincent Lecavalier special advisor

[Vachon23]

I'll break it down. Let's say Madden Jr wants to come here. He would have to be Assistant GM and Director of Scouting. Naturally, he would want to hire who he believes would be the best (just like how Hughes got to decide his coach). With the Borbov hire, Madden will be unable to hire someone like the director of amateur scouting because Borbov is already in charge of European scouting. Even if we don't hire Dore and Madden hires who he wants to split the amateur scouting duties with Borbov, he still can't hire who he wants to scout Europe which will limit the overall scouting.

The things is we know nothing on Brobov, who knows if he's not well respected around the league and Madden like him ?

 

[danyhabsfan]

So Lecavalier watched couple youtube video of Heineman like us and gave his output?

wow...

 

[Mandalorian]

I'll break it down. Let's say Madden Jr wants to come here. He would have to be Assistant GM and Director of Scouting. Naturally, he would want to hire who he believes would be the best (just like how Hughes got to decide his coach). With the Borbov hire, Madden will be unable to hire someone like the director of amateur scouting because Borbov is already in charge of European scouting. Even if we don't hire Dore and Madden hires who he wants to split the amateur scouting duties with Borbov, he still can't hire who he wants to scout Europe which will limit the overall scouting.

Well said, and it might actually play against the Madden Jr hire, maybe it will turn him off from coming to Montreal if he doesn't have total control on who are the main scout for each region.

This hire could screw the amateur scouting department in more than one way.

 

[Mandalorian]

So Lecavalier watched couple youtube video of Heineman like us and gave his output?

wow...

He probably had access to more video tapes of him than the highlights us lowly fans get on Youtube.

 

[Vachon23]

So Lecavalier watched couple youtube video of Heineman like us and gave his output?

wow...

Yes exactly, he goes on YouTube and search Emil Heineman watch his highlights and then say to Hughe that he like him...

 

[The Great Weal]

The things is we know nothing on Brobov, who knows if he's not well respected around the league and Madden like him ?

But he is more likely going to be someone that Madden wouldn't want and have someone from his team instead as opposed to being someone Madden wants. This could also make hiring a qualified person more difficult as they can't really replace Borbov who has a large role.

 

[Vachon23]

But he is more likely going to be someone that Madden wouldn't want and have someone from his team instead as opposed to being someone Madden wants. This could also make hiring a qualified person more difficult as they can't really replace Borbov who has a large role.

We will see I guess

 

[SirClintonPortis]

De facto internship for Vinny to see if his eyes are as good as his play.

 

[jfm133]

Yannick Saint-Pierre, the "Draft Dynasty" guy works for the Habs now and I think he is much more trained than Lecavalier to do video analysis of players. I watched many of his videos before he was hired by Timmins, and the guy is good at what he does. That's another piece of the puzzle that Gorton and Hughes will be able to analyze and judge.

Saint-Pierre started to work for the Habs in January 2021. So the sample is small, but they will be able to look at his work for the 2021 draft. Add to that that Saint-Pierre surely now have more tools to work for the Habs as he had by himself on a YouTube channel.

Again, he is just a piece, but it was a good hire in my view and an inprovement of the overall evaluation process. Also, if Saint-Pierre still does videos with comments like he did on YouTube, these videos can be watched by all the scouts, including guys like Lecavalier, and they can build on that by adding further comments and so on. To me, it looks like a great tool to help other scouts and can be a basis for internal discussions on prospects.

 

[danyhabsfan]

Yes exactly, he goes on YouTube and search Emil Heineman watch his highlights and then say to Hughe that he like him...

that's what his interview sounded like

 

[Beer and Chips]

It is long overdue to modernize hockey operations but am I old fashioned in beleiving that live viewing of games is still preferred to video?

 

[HomaridII]

There is an amazing article on The Athletic written by Basu and Godin about MSL's Nine Chapters of hockey philosophy. I won't post the content here obviously but just the chapters titles:

1) Training Hockey IQ - he believes it is something that can be trained through video and in game situations during practice.

2) Training in the mud - Creating conflict situations in practice, hard in game situations.

3) Playing without the puck - He means offensively, if you start thinking when you get the puck its too late.

4) Play on top of the opponent - Reading situations, knowing when to press, when to cut off a passing line. Specific mention of the Suzuki/Caufield created turnover and a Romanov step up in the neutral zone to intercept a pass.

5) Defensive Play - in zone defensive play. The scheme.

6) Make the best play, not just a quick play - in practice he had one drill where the put two nets in play, the forwards had the option where to score..

7) Play at the right speed, not the fastest speed. SOmetimes slowing down the play is the best play.

8) Play without a defined position - He doesn't want to box people in, you are a center, you are a rw, you are a lw etc. depending on the opponent and the situation example Cuafield will flip wings like he has.

9) Use the full ice.

 

[Vachon23]

that's what his interview sounded like

You’re aware that the Habs have access to multiple tape that where not even close to have. They don’t just watch the game like we ?

 

[Runner77]

Great. More nepotism.

This is coming from somebody who thinks all the right hires took place up until this one.

The biggest problem we had with Bergevin’s executives and appointees was that they weren’t competent and did not undergo stringent performance reviews. Over time, people began equating incompetence and failure to foxhole/ nepotism. Hence, how nepotism became so shunned over all of Bergevin’s tenure.

Fast forward to now, you have a guy with a shoddy scouting record who gets named to a senior scouting position and who was closely associated with Gorton and another in Vinny, who Hughes represented throughout his career.

Vinny’s functions are low impact and not detrimental to the organization, so I could live with it. Bobrov on the other hand, is difficult to defend. He just doesn’t have a stellar record.

It’s not nepotism in the end but competence first and foremost.

By way of example, let’s say that Martin Madden were related to Hughes or Gorton, would anyone complain that it was a nepotistic hire?

Bottom line: don’t insult your fans’ intelligence by hiring a putz.

 

[Runner77]

They aren't going to replace a co-director of amateur scouting though. If Borbov was just here for this draft since our scouting staff took a hit and Lapointe might need help, then I'd understand. However, seems like Borbov had an influence in us acquiring Heineman and co-director is a big role. He's not going anywhere.

If Gorton and Hughes want to stake their tenure on the hiring of someone with a questionable record of performance for such a critical position then let them face what will come with it.

 

[montreal]

It's my understanding most organizations use InStat, it's expensive as shit as I spoke to them in the past to get Liiga games.

InStat

They highlight the player and give you the shift by shift so instead of spending 2 or so hours watching a game like I do, they edit it out to just the shifts of the prospect you want to see and can highlight him so you know where he is on the ice in times where it's hard to see his jersey.

 

[Gravity]

The biggest problem we had with Bergevin’s executives and appointees was that they weren’t competent and did not undergo stringent performance reviews. Over time, people began equating incompetence and failure to foxhole/ nepotism. Hence, how nepotism became so shunned over all of Bergevin’s tenure.

Fast forward to now, you have a guy with a shoddy scouting record who gets named to a senior scouting position and who was closely associated with Gorton and another in Vinny, who Hughes represented throughout his career.

Vinny’s functions are low impact and not detrimental to the organization, so I could live with it. Bobrov on the other hand, is difficult to defend. He just doesn’t have a stellar record.

It’s not nepotism in the end but competence first and foremost.

By way of example, let’s say that Martin Madden were related to Hughes or Gorton, would anyone complain that it was a nepotistic hire?

Bottom line: don’t insult your fans’ intelligence by hiring a putz.

It's a combination of both. If you're going to hire a foxhole buddy, make sure he's at least got a good resume worth defending. If you hire a shotty foxhole buddy, then the whole thing just wreaks of nepotism.

Agreed of the indifference for Lecavalier given the stature of his role.

Habs got rid of Timmins because of botched top 10 picks. Well Bobrov's 2/3 top 10 picks for the Rangers are no longer with the team and the one that is is trending downward.

 

[salbutera]

There is an amazing article on The Athletic written by Basu and Godin about MSL's Nine Chapters of hockey philosophy. I won't post the content here obviously but just the chapters titles:

1) Training Hockey IQ - he believes it is something that can be trained through video and in game situations during practice.

2) Training in the mud - Creating conflict situations in practice, hard in game situations.

3) Playing without the puck - He means offensively, if you start thinking when you get the puck its too late.

4) Play on top of the opponent - Reading situations, knowing when to press, when to cut off a passing line. Specific mention of the Suzuki/Caufield created turnover and a Romanov step up in the neutral zone to intercept a pass.

5) Defensive Play - in zone defensive play. The scheme.

6) Make the best play, not just a quick play - in practice he had one drill where the put two nets in play, the forwards had the option where to score..

7) Play at the right speed, not the fastest speed. SOmetimes slowing down the play is the best play.

8) Play without a defined position - He doesn't want to box people in, you are a center, you are a rw, you are a lw etc. depending on the opponent and the situation example Cuafield will flip wings like he has.

9) Use the full ice.

“Can they get faster? Yeah, maybe a little bit. Can they get stronger? Yeah, some young kids, yes. But in general, and especially by the time they’re 25-26, they’re all close to being tapped in all those things,” St. Louis said. “And I don’t know, the one thing I think I’m not sure where they’re tapped, and I think that’s why I was able to have a long career, I feel my brain just kept getting better and better and better.”

- MSL

 

[Adam Michaels]

So Lecavalier watched couple youtube video of Heineman like us and gave his output?

wow...

I don't know if you're being serious or sarcastic.

But he isn't watching him on YT.

 

[danyhabsfan]

I don't know if you're being serious or sarcastic.

But he isn't watching him on YT.

maybe some clip on twitter too

 

[Adam Michaels]

maybe some clip on twitter too

 

[Kimota]

There is an amazing article on The Athletic written by Basu and Godin about MSL's Nine Chapters of hockey philosophy. I won't post the content here obviously but just the chapters titles:

1) Training Hockey IQ - he believes it is something that can be trained through video and in game situations during practice.

2) Training in the mud - Creating conflict situations in practice, hard in game situations.

3) Playing without the puck - He means offensively, if you start thinking when you get the puck its too late.

4) Play on top of the opponent - Reading situations, knowing when to press, when to cut off a passing line. Specific mention of the Suzuki/Caufield created turnover and a Romanov step up in the neutral zone to intercept a pass.

5) Defensive Play - in zone defensive play. The scheme.

6) Make the best play, not just a quick play - in practice he had one drill where the put two nets in play, the forwards had the option where to score..

7) Play at the right speed, not the fastest speed. SOmetimes slowing down the play is the best play.

8) Play without a defined position - He doesn't want to box people in, you are a center, you are a rw, you are a lw etc. depending on the opponent and the situation example Cuafield will flip wings like he has.

9) Use the full ice.

That is VERY encouraging!

 

[Natey]

I laugh about prior saying Bobrov has a terrible track record. Most of his picks are lower selections where most if not all scouts will have a terrible track record.

The only really poor pick was Lias. And even then he's kind of an NHL'er. The player he was traded for barely progressed in the OHL after 3 years.

No one was skipping Kakko.

 

[Natey]

It's a combination of both. If you're going to hire a foxhole buddy, make sure he's at least got a good resume worth defending. If you hire a shotty foxhole buddy, then the whole thing just wreaks of nepotism.

Agreed of the indifference for Lecavalier given the stature of his role.

Habs got rid of Timmins because of botched top 10 picks. Well Bobrov's 2/3 top 10 picks for the Rangers are no longer with the team and the one that is is trending downward.

One is still developing and still looks like a solid prospect. The other no one was skipping.

Only 1 out of 3 are gone and they were still able to trade him, after 3 poor seasons, for a player they liked.

 

[Sorinth]

It is long overdue to modernize hockey operations but am I old fashioned in beleiving that live viewing of games is still preferred to video?

It depends on the feeds. If all you have is the feed we fans see watching the game then yeah it's not great because it's always focused on the puck and when scouting a player you want to see what they are doing away from the puck which is often off screen. However if you have access to all the feeds especially one that captures the whole ice then it's probably better then watching live.