Post-Game Talk: Habs lose 2-1 to the Devils in preseason opener

[DAChampion]

I criticised the risk the Habs took in drafting a player with such massive question marks.

But what choice did they have? It was all projects.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Nevertheless, I think it's normal and to be expected and necessary to want to see a good player drafted with the 1OA. Not an exceptionally raw one, not someone who is a three year project, not someone who needs the sun and the moon in the right alignment to shine. The 1OA is exceptionally valuable and the Habs used it on Slafkovsky, it's only natural to expect a return on investment (or promise of) from day 1.

Serious question - where do you go with this line of reasoning a month from now when none of Wright, Cooley, Nemec, and Jiricek are playing in the NHL?

I get it, I and everyone else would rather have a player that is instantly successful and is a clear obvious superstar from day 1, but if that player doesn't exist in a given draft class I'm not sure what's supposed to be done about it.

 

[Vachon23]

One guy I knew nothing about who impressed me was Anthony Richard. He had wheels and was working his ass off all game.

Beck, Guhle, Matheson and Allen played great. I am disappointed in Norlinder's performance, with the talent coming up on D he needed to step up this camp so hopefully he picks it up the next few games.

Anthony Richard was a stud with Val D'or. Really like that player when he was playing in the Q

 

[ReHabs]

But who told you NOT to talk about the player?

I think it's fair to criticize aspects of his game...that's normal, but it's also normal for him to have aspects of his game that needs to improve at this stage of his career.

Even Sidney Crosby had things he needed to improve on when he entered the league, why would it be differnent for anyone else?

So pointing out that his game isn't quite rounded out yet, brings zero added value to the discussion...it's already an inherent factor.

Also, it wasn't ME who said that...it was the organization.

it's not my fault you refuse to hear what they're saying.

This reminds me of a girl I used to 'date' before my wife...I kept telling her it was casual, but she refused to hear it and would get mad whenever I didn't meet HER expectations. But that was a "her" problem, and this is mostly a "you" problem too.

His hockey IQ is alarming. His decision making is bad. He is raw.

He should be Liiga plying his trade with no special treatment and earning his draft rank by playing better and solving the so-called "defensive" league with his god-given talents.

Thanks for the chat, I'll keep in mind he's now been compared to Sidney Crosby as well. Add that to the ever-growing list.

 

[morhilane]

I Don't even understand what the hell the chart is trying to say.

short version: top player were more effective, bottom player were less effective overall.

The card use advanced stats to show the effectiveness of a player at certain things during the game (offense, defense, others). 0 is the average, negative means they negatively impacted that aspect, positive means they positively impacted that aspect.

Most of the kids struggled defensively, which in this case means they let way too many chances/shots happens while they were on the ice.

 

[ReHabs]

Serious question - where do you go with this line of reasoning a month from now when none of Wright, Cooley, Nemec, and Jiricek are playing in the NHL?

Are none of them showing any promise? I haven't kept up with all their training camps but I'm sure some of them look better than others. It's the promise of greatness that is as important as the actual achievement at this point.

Subban looked awesome from the first time he took Habs colours. Caufield too. Sometime you just know who is a gamer and who is a "project" (eg Kotkaniemi, Galchenyuk, etc).

But what choice did they have? It was all projects.

If they're all projects with serious question marks, you take the one that has the least likely chance of failure: Nemec or the one with the highest floor who just needs to raise his intensity (under the tutelage of MSL): Wright. You don't draft the guy who couldn't muster 11 points in Liiga.

Whatever, what's done is done no one has any interest in re-litigating this conversation.

 

[Rapala]

Ghule turns on the jets across the three zones. Nice display of speed:



Love the Drake.

I’m wondering why we can’t/aren’t incorporating what he obviously does very well on one of our PP waves? He can flat out move the puck. Big Fast Lanky Dman barrelling down on stationary defender is exactly what we need for consistent zone entry.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

Barron has everything to play in the NHL, he just seem to lack some confidence, he seem more assertive last year. Stating in the AHL will only help him.

Due to injuries/COVID, Barron has only played 124 games total the past 3 years which is a lot of lost development.

A year in the AHL with significant ice time would help with his confidence.

 

[417]

His hockey IQ is alarming. His decision making is bad. He is raw.

Shocking revelation. You're really digging deep here.

He should be Liiga plying his trade with no special treatment and earning his draft rank by playing better and solving the so-called "defensive" league with his god-given talents.

Sound plan

Thanks for the chat, I'll keep in mind he's now been compared to Sidney Crosby as well. Add that to the ever-growing list.

Like I said earlier...you just want to hear/read what you want to hear/read.

 

[Colezuki]

His hockey IQ is alarming. His decision making is bad. He is raw.

He should be Liiga plying his trade with no special treatment and earning his draft rank by playing better and solving the so-called "defensive" league with his god-given talents.

Thanks for the chat, I'll keep in mind he's now been compared to Sidney Crosby as well. Add that to the ever-growing list.

Are you for real? he didn't compare him to Crosby he said Crosby also had things to work on when he came to the league. Good Lord man

 

[Wats]

Due to injuries/COVID, Barron has only played 124 games total the past 3 years which is a lot of lost development.

A year in the AHL with significant ice time would help with his confidence.

I'd like so see Barron paired with Matheson/Edmundson getting 20-22 min/game.

Matheson - Savard
Edmundson - Barron (let him make mistakes and still get minutes)
Harris (ease him in) - Schueneman/Wideman

Unlike Norlinder/Guhle/Xhekaj, Barron at least played a bit in the AHL and had some success. If he looks ready in preseason feel like he can be given a shot.

 

[Rapala]

Did they say which players he was winning faceoffs against?

Hischier is the best at faceoffs in that lineup but he was taken out of the game fairly early. Boqvist is a 4th liner on his last ride and thompson is a little bit better but not by much.

Him winning that many is definitely pretty cool but he definitely didn't face that great competition at the circle.

The argument is very lame. The KID is eighteen years old. Winning that many Draws against NHL competition regardless of the so called pecking order is an accomplishment. He could possibly have owned Hischier.

 

[Rapala]

Those who derided Matheson didn't watch him play last year in Pittsburgh. Matheson will be a workhorse for us over the next few years until our new wave of defencemen (Guhle, Mailloux, Barron, etc.) make their full impact on the team's fortunes. Great trade. Dollar-wise and talent-wise.

Fla. opted to keep worse Dmen than Matheson and it became magnified in the post season.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Are none of them showing any promise? I haven't kept up with all their training camps but I'm sure some of them look better than others. It's the promise of greatness that is as important as the actual achievement at this point.

I haven't followed their camps either but none are expected to be NHLers this year. It's pretty wishy-washy to me to draw a hard line about how a 1OA should not be a project that needs XYZ thing to pan out and then talk about the "promise of greatness" with other players who will not be NHLers this season.

Subban looked awesome from the first time he took Habs colours. Caufield too. Sometime you just know who is a gamer and who is a "project" (eg Kotkaniemi, Galchenyuk, etc).

Subban and Caufield did instantly look great, but Caufield also went half a season with 1 goal or whatever it was last year, and Galchenyuk's best overall season was probably his rookie year before Therrien "taught" him to play defence. Pacioretty had 3G in 52 games as a D+3 player and went on to be a really consistent and effective goal scorer. I dunno, development is different for every player.

If they're all projects with serious question marks, you take the one that has the least likely chance of failure:

This is a valid position to take but it's ultimately just your own risk appetite. It is also perfectly rational to say that when the risk profiles are similar you should choose the player with the highest upside. There's probably a debate RE: Nemec but I think there's upside questions with him too.

Whatever, what's done is done no one has any interest in re-litigating this conversation.

Yeah, I don't believe you.

 

[FloJack]

I didn’t think Roy was perfect, but there were moments where you could see if that clunky skating gets fixed he’s a player. I’d give him a little more time still. Lots to like.

 

[1909]

Slaf will be the best player of his draft in 5-10 years... until then don't bother even talking about him, buster. You keep your mouths shut until it is the year 2032, because a single damn word about Slafkovsky before then will be premature and you'll look like a god damn joke. Unless you're praising him.

The reverse is true also. Like not knowing him enough at the very draft day and judging his every moves since then..... You know who I am talking about .

Are you building yourself a career on this board on Slaf's back ? It seems so.

 

[Vachon23]

I didn’t think Roy was perfect, but there were moments where you could see if that clunky skating gets fixed he’s a player. I’d give him a little more time still. Lots to like.

Don't forget that he didn't play in the rookie camp and that he was injured. Normal that he's not at the same pace that the other rookies

 

[FloJack]

Don't forget that he didn't play in the rookie camp and that he was injured. Normal that he's not at the same pace that the other rookies

Yeah, I just saw some critiques that seemed out of context and wanted to share that. Not that it was too harsh, but I’d only be looking at his positives for the moment. He’s not scheduled to be in the top 6 this season or anything.

The takes are even hotter after one preseason game of course though.

 

[Price is Wright]

One game is just one game with Slafkovsky. Pre season game at that. That said the idea he will be the best player in the draft in 5 years means he's gotta show promise by the time he's 20. Lafreniere is finally finding his game on the Rangers. He's gotta have a good year. I would be okay if Slaf is a bit rough to start. Give him time and give him opportunities.

He is also a first overall pick in one of the craziest media markets in sports. Every slip up and potential mark miss will be heavily scrutinised. If he's got the right mind for it then Montreal will be fine.

Owen Beck though? Wow. Impressed me immediately. It's just preseason of course and he probably doesn't come up at 18 but at 19? He could be very tough to say no to. What a slam dunk pick so far.

 

[417]

This is a valid position to take but it's ultimately just your own risk appetite. It is also perfectly rational to say that when the risk profiles are similar you should choose the player with the highest upside. There's probably a debate RE: Nemec but I think there's upside questions with him too.

Yeah I disagree that that's a valid position to take, since no one knows who has the least likely chance to fail (I mean there are exceptions, but as a rule, there isn't really).

This is the one variable when you're drafting and evaluating players, that is unknown.

Risk profiles, for the most part are almost identical if we agree that inherently at a draft, most players fail.

So the question becomes, as you put it, who has the highest upside.

I think it's fair to say that Shane Wright is a better player than Juraj Slafvkosky TODAY.

But is that going to be true, when both players have reached their peak?

I don't know, but looking at Slafkovsky, I get why they think he will be when it matters.

 

[schwang26]

I can't get over how good Beck looks out there. Granted, it's not all nhl competition, but man, he's impressive. He's a great pick. Hopefully, Hutson turns out to be another 2nd round "steal" .

I'd love to see what the Bergevin draft would've looked like.

 

[Wateredgarden]

I didn’t think Roy was perfect, but there were moments where you could see if that clunky skating gets fixed he’s a player. I’d give him a little more time still. Lots to like.

On the first powerplay he was all over the Devils, very impressive. But after that he kind of faded, he didn't have great linemates or a ton of ice time.

 

[HostileCapSpace]

I didn’t think Roy was perfect, but there were moments where you could see if that clunky skating gets fixed he’s a player. I’d give him a little more time still. Lots to like.

The key is definitely his skating - it will make or break his potential career. He has the hockey IQ, the vision and the skills, but he is slow.

 

[WeThreeKings]

At a certain point you just gotta put the 'haha' message on stupid posts and let them yell into the void.

 

[Runner77]

Anthony Richard was a stud with Val D'or. Really like that player when he was playing in the Q

He was a prolific scorer in juniors, for the last 3 of his 4 years in Val D’or but his last season in juniors goes back to 2015-16.

After that, he garnered a couple of AHL seasons around the 20 goal range or pace.

He’ll be 26 in December and shows excellent acceleration. Wondering why he hasn’t posted better offensive numbers but at first blush, there is a lot of skill. Maybe he’ll get opportunities as a call up from Laval during the season.