Guentzel at 3c?

[KIRK]

Why are we only giving up crap? Is that what some delusional posters here believe?

I'd happily give up quality assets for a legit 3C. I would hope that most people 12 and over would agree.

I wouldn't count Mackey among them . . . as well as many posters here.

Well, we're not dealing him. And, we won't deal that guy either. By the time it's done, you're left with Sheary, Cole, and a 1st.

EDIT: Not saying YOU think this way, mind you.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I wouldn't count Mackey among them . . . as well as many posters here.

Well, we're not dealing him. And, we won't deal that guy either. By the time it's done, you're left with Sheary, Cole, and a 1st.

EDIT: Not saying YOU think this way, mind you.

Ah-so. Gotta give to get. We may swing something involving Cole and a 1st, but personally, I'm not limiting myself to that.

 

[ncm7772]

I haven't seen enough to comment all that much, but he's gonna have to produce at one hell of a rate to make it worth losing out on his production as a top 6 winger.

Great option to have around though.



This isn't the oil industry now!

If I was a GM, it would be!!

 

[NMK11]

Long term? No, although I think if teams load up on Sid and Malkin, having the ability to shift Jake to C and play with Kessel on the third line could really cause problems here and there.

Short term? Not like we really have another choice

 

[WayneSid9987]

Believe the part they were missing was the Simon's and Sprong's up to keep the skill on the wings to allow Jake to C the 3rd.

Long term though, no, Jakes a winger.

They just should've thought of Simon+Sprong up, Jake to 3C, Sheahan to 4C about 10 to 15 games earlier.

 

[The Old Master]

Long term? No, although I think if teams load up on Sid and Malkin, having the ability to shift Jake to C and play with Kessel on the third line could really cause problems here and there.

Short term? Not like we really have another choice

so true......if that's the way we are going to go we still need to add a winger....should be able to do it easer than get the type of center that we would need....

 

[cheesedanish87]

I haven't been impressed with Jake at 3c to this point.

But i would give him a long look their and see how he does.

I don't think the team is going anywhere this year, so its seems like a good time to try things like this.

 

[The Old Master]

jake needs good players around him he's a play maker first and playing with out a guy to put the puck in the net, there will be problems

 

[Riptide]

What are people's thoughts on Guentzel at 3c, for the longer-term?

The NHL stats page lists his 2017-18 face-off % at 50.56%, which was higher than I expected.

Guentzel on the PK? Guentzel on the PP? Guentzel at ES, do we role three offensive lines? Or is this a band-aid solution, until a trade?

Terrible idea. This is a bandaid solution until we can get another quality center and either put Sheahan back at 3c or to keep him at 4c.

 

[Riptide]

Team has certainly looked better with him there, and Sheahan at 4C.

Is that because Guentzel is a better 3C then Sheahan, or because Sheahan is a better 4C then Rowney?

The former implies that the team is better because we have a better 3C. The latter implies that we're better because we actually have a relevant 4th line - something we haven't had almost all year.

 

[Andy99]

Is that because Guentzel is a better 3C then Sheahan, or because Sheahan is a better 4C then Rowney?

It's because Sheahan is a better 4C at least in combination with who the Pens are playing on the wings for that line. Just work better than with Rowney. Jake's best position in the NHL is not center. If nothing else, the current set up shows that we need a better center than Sheahan and Jake manning the third line

 

[Riptide]

It's because Sheahan is a better 4C at least in combination with who the Pens are playing on the wings for that line. Just work better than with Rowney. Jake's best position in the NHL is not center. If nothing else, the current set up shows that we need a better center than Sheahan and Jake manning the third line

Bold 1: That says more about Rowney then it does about Sheahan.
Bold 2: Wrong. All it shows is that our overall center depth is lacking, not that any individual piece isn't good enough.

 

[Andy99]

Bold 1: That says more about Rowney then it does about Sheahan.
Bold 2: Wrong. All it shows is that our overall center depth is lacking, not that any individual piece isn't good enough.

Well, re 2, I'll disagree with you there. It makes sense to play Phil on the third line to spread the offense out, as Sully would like to do. Haven't seen much to like in the Sheahan-Phil combo to date. We'd be a better team with a 3C who's a better offensive center there and I'm not saying anything that JR hasn't already said himself

 

[Riptide]

Well, re 2, I'll disagree with you there. It makes sense to play Phil on the third line to spread the offense out, as Sully would like to do. Haven't seen much to like in the Sheahan-Phil combo to date. We'd be a better team with a 3C who's a better offensive center there and I'm not saying anything that JR hasn't already said himself

Actually all Rutherford has said on this, is that he'd like Sheahan to score more. What's weird about that, is he's on the exact same ES goal pace that Bonino had (7.8g in 15/16, 11g in 16/17 vs RSs 10g pace).

I get that. But Guentzel as the 3C and pushing Sheahan down isn't proof that our 3C was lacking before, just that our overall center depth isn't deep enough. In order to prove that Guentzel is better as the 3C then Sheahan, you'd need Rowney (or a similar center) playing 4C and Sheahan not playing. BC the second Sheahan is there, you're no longer putting all the defensive weight on the 3C (like what happens when Sheahan plays that role), but are spreading it out on both 3/4C. Unless of course Sheahan is the 4C and Guentzel is the 3C, then Sheahan gets all the defensive work and Guentzel gets a free pass.

In the last 2 games Sheahan had a 21% zone start %. Guentzel... 100% zone start. Despite that, Guentzel had a 50% SAT. Sheahan? 46.5%. Looking up their faceoff numbers, it looks like this:
DZ / NZ / OZ
Sheahan: 22 / 9 / 3
Guentzel: 1 / 9 / 5

4 games:
Sheahan: 45 / 16 / 8
Guentzel: 2 / 10 / 7

Guentzel there, also forced Crosby to take on a bigger work load and starting more shifts in the DZ. Last 4 games he was at 44%. His season average is 60%.

I'd look at a bigger sample size, but I'm not sure when exactly Guentzel started playing 3C. I know Rowney got hurt in the Det game on 12/31. If you figure that Guentzel played 3C since then, the numbers stay pretty consistent with that above. Sheahan takes on an even bigger defensive role, as does Crosby. Guentzel still has a 70% zone start % and a 50% SAT percentage.