GTHL geographical divisions and minor hockey player movement...clear as mud!

[slozo]

Hi All,

Usually I post in the Leafs forum, but here I am as a hockey dad, looking for more information or advice.
My son is about to start in his season in the Novice division, and I am looking at what his options are for next year, as he may make a AAA team, but is just as likely to stay at the AA level, depending on various factors.

Without being too specific about my case . . . this year we're playing in the city, but we live north. I'm trying to avoid playing for a certain coach at the AA level in my town, but going by residency rules . . . it may be tough to avoid.

So if any of you have gone through this already, or have knowledge to share on the subject - please do! Because searching on the internet for even the simplest of things - a GTHL map of club areas, for example - draws a blank. Stories, experiences in changing teams/areas, proof required for change of residency, etc - would love to hear about it.

I love being a hockey parent so far . . . but this part of it sucks, ha ha.

Click to read more...

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Novice and already trying to avoid a certain coach. Yikes. Hockey politics are the worst.

Check on the GTHL website in regards to what you need to do to obtain a release from your current club.

 

[slozo]

Novice and already trying to avoid a certain coach. Yikes. Hockey politics are the worst.

Check on the GTHL website in regards to what you need to do to obtain a release from your current club.

Avoid is a strong word actually....really just choosing better people/options to give my boy the best development and training. It's at this age when often the coaches are less qualified and adept. My boy is liked by this coach, and he would gladly have my son on his team - it's me looking elsewhere of my own volition.

GTHL website, like I said, doesn't have a map, or tell you how to circumvent their vaguely stated parameters.

I need personal stories/experiences.

 

[Pez68]

Novice and already trying to avoid a certain coach. Yikes. Hockey politics are the worst.

Check on the GTHL website in regards to what you need to do to obtain a release from your current club.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of pretty poor coaches at the non-tier I levels in the Chicago area. I assume the same holds true for pretty much anywhere in North America. Hockey has always been extremely political, and it seems a lot of the time it isn't what you know about hockey, but who in hockey you know....

 

[slozo]

Unfortunately, there are a lot of pretty poor coaches at the non-tier I levels in the Chicago area. I assume the same holds true for pretty much anywhere in North America. Hockey has always been extremely political, and it seems a lot of the time it isn't what you know about hockey, but who in hockey you know....

I think sports in general is political, we just assume it only applies to hockey. But I've heard the worst stories from soccer, and I think it just goes that with a sport so loved that many are passionate about, some people get too invested in it.

To be fair, this coach I'm avoiding is a reasonable, nice guy in person...he just makes poor decisions in my humble opinion, doesn't coach properly, and I went to a better program for this season for my boy. No dramas or anything...and 'we've' had good, decent coaches up til now.

But yeah - when 95% of the time you're choosing from the pool of parents of the kids who made it to that level, sometimes ... You get a power hungry guy, or an inept/inexperienced person.

Interesting to hear about the US minor hockey system though. Heck, they've been making such great inroads lately , they must be doing a lot right.

 

[patty59]

AAA novice? lol

 

[ChuckLefley]

Avoid is a strong word actually....really just choosing better people/options to give my boy the best development and training. It's at this age when often the coaches are less qualified and adept. My boy is liked by this coach, and he would gladly have my son on his team - it's me looking elsewhere of my own volition.

GTHL website, like I said, doesn't have a map, or tell you how to circumvent their vaguely stated parameters.

I need personal stories/experiences.

That’s even worse. Your kid is a novice, you shouldn’t be out trying to engineer what team he is on because you think one is better than another, if there is no issue with how the coach treats the kids. The point of novice is learning the game and having fun. You won’t want to hear this, but parents like you are what ruins Hockey for kids, coaches and officials.

 

[slozo]

That’s even worse. Your kid is a novice, you shouldn’t be out trying to engineer what team he is on because you think one is better than another, if there is no issue with how the coach treats the kids. The point of novice is learning the game and having fun. You won’t want to hear this, but parents like you are what ruins Hockey for kids, coaches and officials.

Just curious, are you a parent of a kid in hockey yourself?
Not sure why you are taking the stance you are . . . I'm literally describing a situation where I'm moving a kid to a better learning situation - akin to moving your kid to a better school to get a better education - and somehow you have the opinion that this is . . . ruining hockey for my kid? How exactly?

I shouldn't bother asking how that ruins hockey for the coaches (which one - the one that isn't getting my son, or the one that scouted him and chose him for his team?), bur the funny part is . . . the refs? Are you transferring your idea of what kind of hockey parent you suddenly think I am to a crazy hockey parent caricature? That's kind of hilarious.

So to repeat, I am just looking for experiences/stories/knowledge etc in regards to the subject.

 

[ChuckLefley]

Just curious, are you a parent of a kid in hockey yourself?
Not sure why you are taking the stance you are . . . I'm literally describing a situation where I'm moving a kid to a better learning situation - akin to moving your kid to a better school to get a better education - and somehow you have the opinion that this is . . . ruining hockey for my kid? How exactly?

I shouldn't bother asking how that ruins hockey for the coaches (which one - the one that isn't getting my son, or the one that scouted him and chose him for his team?), bur the funny part is . . . the refs? Are you transferring your idea of what kind of hockey parent you suddenly think I am to a crazy hockey parent caricature? That's kind of hilarious.

So to repeat, I am just looking for experiences/stories/knowledge etc in regards to the subject.

I am a hockey parent and I was a college, club, high school and mite coach. There is a huge difference between wanting a quality education for your child and trying to hand pick a team for your novice player. The former is all about giving your child the best opportunities in life, the latter is all about a parent thinking that, with the right coaching, his kid can be an NHL player.

When it comes to coaches and refs, parents who set out to hand pick their novice kids coach tend to become the ones who pester the coach about playing time and which kids should play where. They also tend to be the ones who keep switching teams and clubs to find the better team. They also tend to be the ones who always blame the coach...usually very loudly to all of the other parents. They also tend to be the ones screaming and cursing at the refs when Billy the Novice Hockey Star falls down on a breakaway, while banging on the glass.

Anything else?

 

[slozo]

I am a hockey parent and I was a college, club, high school and mite coach. There is a huge difference between wanting a quality education for your child and trying to hand pick a team for your novice player. The former is all about giving your child the best opportunities in life, the latter is all about a parent thinking that, with the right coaching, his kid can be an NHL player.

When it comes to coaches and refs, parents who set out to hand pick their novice kids coach tend to become the ones who pester the coach about playing time and which kids should play where. They also tend to be the ones who keep switching teams and clubs to find the better team. They also tend to be the ones who always blame the coach...usually very loudly to all of the other parents. They also tend to be the ones screaming and cursing at the refs when Billy the Novice Hockey Star falls down on a breakaway, while banging on the glass.

Anything else?

 

[slozo]

I am a hockey parent and I was a college, club, high school and mite coach. There is a huge difference between wanting a quality education for your child and trying to hand pick a team for your novice player. The former is all about giving your child the best opportunities in life, the latter is all about a parent thinking that, with the right coaching, his kid can be an NHL player.

When it comes to coaches and refs, parents who set out to hand pick their novice kids coach tend to become the ones who pester the coach about playing time and which kids should play where. They also tend to be the ones who keep switching teams and clubs to find the better team. They also tend to be the ones who always blame the coach...usually very loudly to all of the other parents. They also tend to be the ones screaming and cursing at the refs when Billy the Novice Hockey Star falls down on a breakaway, while banging on the glass.

Anything else?

Alrighty then, I'll try again . . .

I'll keep it simple, and won't bother defending myself as a parent against an internet hero making ridiculous assumptions on my character.

Coaches JUST LIKE YOU - with your assumptive, know-it-all attitude - are exactly the kind good parents make sure to avoid. And for some sneaky reason, I feel like you've jumped on me because this has happened to you in the past . . .

You are what's bad for hockey, dude. And bad for a reasonable hockey discussion too.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Hi All,

Usually I post in the Leafs forum, but here I am as a hockey dad, looking for more information or advice.
My son is about to start in his season in the Novice division, and I am looking at what his options are for next year, as he may make a AAA team, but is just as likely to stay at the AA level, depending on various factors.

Without being too specific about my case . . . this year we're playing in the city, but we live north. I'm trying to avoid playing for a certain coach at the AA level in my town, but going by residency rules . . . it may be tough to avoid.

So if any of you have gone through this already, or have knowledge to share on the subject - please do! Because searching on the internet for even the simplest of things - a GTHL map of club areas, for example - draws a blank. Stories, experiences in changing teams/areas, proof required for change of residency, etc - would love to hear about it.

I love being a hockey parent so far . . . but this part of it sucks, ha ha.

Few points.

Is your son in his "minor" or "major" year?

Two issues.Residency rules and transfer procedures. The organization getting a transfer may object. Long procedure including appeals. Son could lose months of hockey which is more harmful.

You admitted to playing outside your "catchment". Shining a light on this fact may domino. Catchments tend to expand as players age. Midget has a larger catchment than novice.

 

[slozo]

Few points.

Is your son in his "minor" or "major" year?

Two issues.Residency rules and transfer procedures. The organization getting a transfer may object. Long procedure including appeals. Son could lose months of hockey which is more harmful.

You admitted to playing outside your "catchment". Shining a light on this fact may domino. Catchments tend to expand as players age. Midget has a larger catchment than novice.

My son's in his major year I guess? (not minor novice, which is born 2011 - he's born 2010, so it's just listed as novice)

But yeah - the issue is if he doesn't make AAA (next spring, 2019) and wants to continue playing in the city for his current team . . . then he'd either have to legally move to the city or get a release from his town (which I understand is almost never granted, because they want to keep the better players - which I understand is because of money, long story short). And, next year, he's forced to only tryout for his area AAA team, but he can ask for a release preemptively I believe - but then can only tryout at the nearby/area AAA clubs. The AAA thing is a tough one too - his area AAA team do a lot more travelling around than a GTA AAA team does. If I had a choice, I'd choose the GTA one for sure - closer, less travelling, etc.

Bottom line, it's just too bad they don't give a greater choice to the parents, who because of work/situation/etc may want to play with different clubs. You'd think if the parents are willing to do it, they'd allow it, but they are actually quite restrictive.

I only found out earlier this spring that this is the one year where he can actually play outside his town by choice, without asking for/getting permission. it's a bit of an odd system (not saying I don't understand some of the reasons why they do this though - just saying there are better options, I think).

 

[Canadiens1958]

My son's in his major year I guess? (not minor novice, which is born 2011 - he's born 2010, so it's just listed as novice)

But yeah - the issue is if he doesn't make AAA (next spring, 2019) and wants to continue playing in the city for his current team . . . then he'd either have to legally move to the city or get a release from his town (which I understand is almost never granted, because they want to keep the better players - which I understand is because of money, long story short). And, next year, he's forced to only tryout for his area AAA team, but he can ask for a release preemptively I believe - but then can only tryout at the nearby/area AAA clubs. The AAA thing is a tough one too - his area AAA team do a lot more travelling around than a GTA AAA team does. If I had a choice, I'd choose the GTA one for sure - closer, less travelling, etc.

Bottom line, it's just too bad they don't give a greater choice to the parents, who because of work/situation/etc may want to play with different clubs. You'd think if the parents are willing to do it, they'd allow it, but they are actually quite restrictive.

I only found out earlier this spring that this is the one year where he can actually play outside his town by choice, without asking for/getting permission. it's a bit of an odd system (not saying I don't understand some of the reasons why they do this though - just saying there are better options, I think).

Involved with minor hockey in Quebec for over 40 years.

Biggest obstacle / drop-out cause to development at the pre Bantam level is excessive / unnecessary travel especially for practice.

Better option is the school path - St. Mike's, etc just as it is in Quebec.

 

[slozo]

Involved with minor hockey in Quebec for over 40 years.

Biggest obstacle / drop-out cause to development at the pre Bantam level is excessive / unnecessary travel especially for practice.

Better option is the school path - St. Mike's, etc just as it is in Quebec.

Yeah, I've heard that in Ontario and the rest of the country it's the same - biggest obstacle is the travel, but that really just affects the parents for the most part. If the kid loves hockey, he's good with the car ride usually.

Ah, I'll see how it goes . . . I'm prepared and in a position where I can and have spent countless hours driving around from rink to rink, it's all good. I have fun with it, and the other parents so far in his career have been great company. (although I hear that nobody talks to each other in AAA, lol . . . heard this from many other parents and coaches. I guess because they are basically competing against each other in a way)

Not sure what you mean by the school path, though . . . explain?

 

[Canadiens1958]

Yeah, I've heard that in Ontario and the rest of the country it's the same - biggest obstacle is the travel, but that really just affects the parents for the most part. If the kid loves hockey, he's good with the car ride usually.

Ah, I'll see how it goes . . . I'm prepared and in a position where I can and have spent countless hours driving around from rink to rink, it's all good. I have fun with it, and the other parents so far in his career have been great company. (although I hear that nobody talks to each other in AAA, lol . . . heard this from many other parents and coaches. I guess because they are basically competing against each other in a way)

Not sure what you mean by the school path, though . . . explain?

Private schools mainly, St. Mike's in your area is one, offer sports programs including hockey. Have their own arenas and athletic complex. Teams coached by academics with appropriate degrees.
Practices and games during the day, players usually home for supper. Same daily round trip for school and hockey . Training,off ice facilities at hand in season. Expert trainers. Added bonus no residency or transfer issues. Just eligibility.

Google or call St. Mike's see which leagues and teams are part of their circle.

 

[ChuckLefley]

Alrighty then, I'll try again . . .

I'll keep it simple, and won't bother defending myself as a parent against an internet hero making ridiculous assumptions on my character.

Coaches JUST LIKE YOU - with your assumptive, know-it-all attitude - are exactly the kind good parents make sure to avoid. And for some sneaky reason, I feel like you've jumped on me because this has happened to you in the past . . .

You are what's bad for hockey, dude. And bad for a reasonable hockey discussion too.

You just made my point for me. Instead of showing me how what you are doing isn’t the road to becoming that parent, or showing how education and hockey are equal, you attack me, despite the fact I never mentioned anything about my coaching style, my knowledge or anything I have done as a coach.

I feel bad for your kid and whatever team he ends up playing on, but thank you for proving my intuition correct.

 

[slozo]

Private schools mainly, St. Mike's in your area is one, offer sports programs including hockey. Have their own arenas and athletic complex. Teams coached by academics with appropriate degrees.
Practices and games during the day, players usually home for supper. Same daily round trip for school and hockey . Training,off ice facilities at hand in season. Expert trainers. Added bonus no residency or transfer issues. Just eligibility.

Google or call St. Mike's see which leagues and teams are part of their circle.

I see, yeah...I do know that those private schools do have hockey teams (my son will be going to such a school in the city, actually) but they often only have teams from age 9 or 10 onward, so we'll see.

IlI' look into St MikesMas well too though, thanks.

 

[Canadiens1958]

I see, yeah...I do know that those private schools do have hockey teams (my son will be going to such a school in the city, actually) but they often only have teams from age 9 or 10 onward, so we'll see.

IlI' look into St MikesMas well too though, thanks.

Atom age. When schools start travel programs, external competition. Some/perhaps most have "House League" 1/2 ice games for the younger kids.

 

[slozo]

You just made my point for me. Instead of showing me how what you are doing isn’t the road to becoming that parent, or showing how education and hockey are equal, you attack me, despite the fact I never mentioned anything about my coaching style, my knowledge or anything I have done as a coach.

I feel bad for your kid and whatever team he ends up playing on, but thank you for proving my intuition correct.

You're hilarious.
Don't feel bad for my kid...be happy for him! He's super excited about meeting his new teammates, and playing with better players.

And don't feel bad for my son's team....why would you?!? They're going to be an even more competitive team with my son, who the head coach scouted and brought to the team.

And don't thank me...I didn't do anything other than what a normal supportive hockey parent would do. What that has to do with your suspicions...is only inside your head.

Go shoot some stick with your own kid, stop wasting those precious hours of time on a hockey chat room.

 

[patty59]

If someone scouted my novice aged kid and tried to get him on their team I'd seriously question if there was something really wrong with that person. Who in their right mind scouts 7 year old kids? In my experience parents love to hear that their kid is better than other kids and a lot of people have built hockey businesses on this. You attach AAA or elite to something and parents will literally throw money at it. It's crazy.

 

[ChuckLefley]

You're hilarious.
Don't feel bad for my kid...be happy for him! He's super excited about meeting his new teammates, and playing with better players.

And don't feel bad for my son's team....why would you?!? They're going to be an even more competitive team with my son, who the head coach scouted and brought to the team.

And don't thank me...I didn't do anything other than what a normal supportive hockey parent would do. What that has to do with your suspicions...is only inside your head.

Go shoot some stick with your own kid, stop wasting those precious hours of time on a hockey chat room.

You can’t stop yourself from proving what I am saying about you.

The head coach scouted novice players. Either you’re lying or he is as bad as you.

Nope, a “normal supportive parent” of a novice hockey player would just let him play and have fun, not run around searching for the best teams to put Junior on to start his road to the NHL (#DaddyTryingToLiveThroughJunior)

It is humorous that you are telling me to stop wasting precious hours of time on a chat room (it’s a forum not a chat room, chat is in real time) as you sit hear arguing, asking strangers to tell you that you are an awesome dad and going around scouting teams and coaches.

Please come back and tell us all about it when he gets burned out and embarrassed because daddy wouldn’t let him play and have fun, instead he was acting like a Lindros parent.

It’s been fun letting you prove my point over and over, but I’m done.

 

[slozo]

You can’t stop yourself from proving what I am saying about you.

The head coach scouted novice players. Either you’re lying or he is as bad as you.

Nope, a “normal supportive parent” of a novice hockey player would just let him play and have fun, not run around searching for the best teams to put Junior on to start his road to the NHL (#DaddyTryingToLiveThroughJunior)

It is humorous that you are telling me to stop wasting precious hours of time on a chat room (it’s a forum not a chat room, chat is in real time) as you sit hear arguing, asking strangers to tell you that you are an awesome dad and going around scouting teams and coaches.

Please come back and tell us all about it when he gets burned out and embarrassed because daddy wouldn’t let him play and have fun, instead he was acting like a Lindros parent.

It’s been fun letting you prove my point over and over, but I’m done.

Glad to hear you're done.
I highly doubt it though.

 

[slozo]

If someone scouted my novice aged kid and tried to get him on their team I'd seriously question if there was something really wrong with that person. Who in their right mind scouts 7 year old kids? In my experience parents love to hear that their kid is better than other kids and a lot of people have built hockey businesses on this. You attach AAA or elite to something and parents will literally throw money at it. It's crazy.

As a third year hockey parent, I'll admit I was very surprised that a coach scouted my kid to get on his team - but I later learned it's common enough to get kids from outside their region (that they've never seen) onto their tiered select teams. But really, lots of coaches everywhere look around at other kids who could come up to their level - whether it's A, AA, or AAA. They wouldn't be good coaches otherwise, they have to do their due diligence. I guess you can call that scouting too.

Doesn't sound like many of the commenters here have anything constructive to add, just snarky or accusatory remarks.

 

[Pez68]

Well, what do you expect really? AAA at that age is akin to childhood beauty pageants. It is pretty ridiculous, and is more for the parents than anything else.

The job of youth hockey coaches at any level is not winning. It is making the kids better athletes, hockey players, and people... Something that most parents don't understand. Especially at the higher levels.