Growth of hockey By US state 1990-2010

[Hasbro]

I've been saying for some time that the NHL missed out on Oklahoma City, allowing the NBA to get there first, but that now Tulsa might be a good small city bet for the NHL.

The upside for the NBA going to Oklahoma is that it abandoned Seattle, so now when the circumstances are right let's hope that the NHL get to Seattle before the NBA returns. Not that Seattle couldn't support both, but it would be good to be the first to get established there again.

And as for Oregon, even though Oklahoma may somehow be ahead of Oregon, Oregon is still a prime location for the NHL.

Agreed.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I imagine it's much cheaper to market hockey sticks in Maine than in California, so I don't know how that would play into the calculation.

The whole thing about getting triple the number of likely-buyers to view your ad.

Granted, they're spread out over a larger area. But there is some business sense in looking at some of these places as "hockey markets" when they have those kinds of numbers.

 

[razor ray]

My Picks:

State on the rise: Indiana-with Notre Dame’s new $50 million dollar arena, plus Marion, Ind $30 mill arena for a USHL team, along with Fort Wayne adding 3 new sheets of ice. That’s 6 sheets of ice, just this year, in Northern Indiana. I think Indiana will have a big jump very soon.

State that disappoints: Utah-A cold climate state and has Western states such as Colorado, Washington, Arizona, Idaho, and California where hockey is taking off.

Cities that should have the NHL and not the NBA: Cleveland (instead of Columbus), Salt Lake, and Milwaukee

Cities that should have the NBA: Vancouver (they got a raw deal and now the Can/US dollar is equal and if they use the model the Raptors use on international players it will succeed), Las Vegas, possibly Montreal (21k just for an NBA exhibition game), or Kansas City

 

[Brodie]

that Utah-California border must be new

 

[MissouriBlues2008]

I live in Southeast Missouri. The closest ice rinks probably are in St. Louis, a 2 1/2 hour drive away. So it's no wonder fewer (or probably zero) NHL players come out of rural Missouri. Even if we had rinks, hockey equipment and the sport itself is expensive. Baseball and basketball are popular here, but you have a place to play them, the Cardinals are very popular, and equipment is cheaper and you may be able to rent/borrow equipment from other people.

I'm not sure how KC is. I know St. Louis has quite a few rinks and a few peewee teams. The rural areas are a different story, though.

 

[razor ray]

that Utah-California border must be new

Lol, you got me man its late! BTW Michigan must be loving this Ohio St. meltdown.

 

[Jeffrey93]

http://unitedstatesofhockey.com/201...ockeys-growth-in-the-united-states-1990-2009/

US states that HAVE a NHL Hockey team

http://unitedstatesofhockey.com/2011/06/03/raw-numbers-hockeys-growth-in-non-nhl-states-1990-2010/

Growth of hockey from 1990-2010 in US states that do NOT have a NHL hockey team.

The only state with negative growth: Hawaii

Sorry for my late entry....but this is something that should be initiated and ongoing BEFORE an NHL team arrives.....not because one arrived before it happened.

Business goes where demand is....you don't take you business to places to grow demand. You go there to cater to the existing demand.

Edit: Also...when the hockey participation is nearly zero.....it isn't hard to grow it by 400% (or whatever). For example....the Jeffrey93 fan club grew by 180% this past year.....but with just less than 3,000 members that isn't exactly enormous growth.

 

[mizzoublues29]

I live in Southeast Missouri. The closest ice rinks probably are in St. Louis, a 2 1/2 hour drive away. So it's no wonder fewer (or probably zero) NHL players come out of rural Missouri. Even if we had rinks, hockey equipment and the sport itself is expensive. Baseball and basketball are popular here, but you have a place to play them, the Cardinals are very popular, and equipment is cheaper and you may be able to rent/borrow equipment from other people.

I'm not sure how KC is. I know St. Louis has quite a few rinks and a few peewee teams. The rural areas are a different story, though.

Yeah I don't think rural Missouri has much of a hockey following. With the crappy cable providers I know a ton of Blues games don't get aired in Cape and Springfield (among other cities I'm sure)

However, St. Louis city and county, JeffCo, and St. Charles are hockey hotbeds. High school hockey is HUGE in St. Louis. Also, inline is extremely popular. A new inline rink just got built in Wright City (~50 miles from St. Louis city)

I was a bit surprised by Missouri's numbers regarding USA hockey, but considering that consists of only STL (for the most part, and south west ILL is not in MO's #'s), it's pretty good.

However, I can guarantee that youth hockey and a following is much better in Missouri than those numbers claim.

 

[mizzoublues29]

Sorry for my late entry....but this is something that should be initiated and ongoing BEFORE an NHL team arrives.....not because one arrived before it happened.

Business goes where demand is....you don't take you business to places to grow demand. You go there to cater to the existing demand.

Edit: Also...when the hockey participation is nearly zero.....it isn't hard to grow it by 400% (or whatever). For example....the Jeffrey93 fan club grew by 180% this past year.....but with just less than 3,000 members that isn't exactly enormous growth.

That's not necessarily true. New, large markets can always be utilized. Good products and good marketing can create demand.

Hockey as worked out pretty well in California, right?

 

[Jeffrey93]

That's not necessarily true. New, large markets can always be utilized. Good products and good marketing can create demand.

Hockey as worked out pretty well in California, right?

Would you like me to list all the pro hockey teams that have setup in California over the past 50 years?

Look at Tim Hortons as an example. HUGE demand in Canada...a ridiculous amount setup in all areas including ridiculously small towns. They setup in pretty large US markets...and fail. CEO was recently turfed because growth wasn't good enough. THAT is what trying to grow demand for your product gets you.

This is a sports league...you go where people want it. Fine....if the demand isn't quite enough....you can setup there and hope it grows. But, you don't go where there is ZERO....absolutely NO...demand for your product and hope that some clown will pay $40M in payroll to try to create demand.

I'm not sure what the NHL told these people in Miami, Nashville, Atlanta, Phoenix, etc. but it must have been a tremendous sales pitch. Most planned on the hockey team doing reasonably well and that would help their side investments which would make them money overall. TNSE has a similar approach.

My view is that the NHL is responsible for creating demand for their product....not the Owners of expansion/relocation teams.

It's like Krusty putting a Krusty Burger franchise on an oil rig. Took a bath on it. Why? Because there was no demand and the franchise couldn't generate the needed demand. It was a bad idea.

Bad analogy? Probably. Either way.....if these are truly FRANCHISES...the company shouldn't be plopping franchises in places that doesn't prove there is demand. In fact, that is a requirement in the NHL by-laws....they overlook it for markets they desire (Phoenix, Atlanta, Nashville, Columbus, Miami, etc.) and then insist on it for markets like Winnipeg. You don't find that a little odd?

There are other ways to drum up demand for the NHL than putting an NHL team in the market.

 

[Trevor3]

I'm curious how the US numbers compare with those of Canadian provinces. I don't think there is any doubt that there are more drastic increases south of the border, but how have the numbers been overall after losing NHL teams and struggling internationally in the late 90s? Or the effect of recent success in the Olympics (for both countries). If anyone has numbers to compare, I think it would be interesting to look at.

Just for starters, Hockey Newfoundland and Labrador released its numbers today and they had 11,185 registered players this past season. The province's population is about 509,200 - according to wikipedia - which means about 23 players per 1000 population. It's late and I think I messed up that calculation, feel free to correct me Anyway, this is the highest number in 20 years.

Possible reasons:

Notable NHL players (which states have local players excelling in the NHL or for local colleges/minor pro teams? If you find local players excelling, youth tend to gravitate toward the sport)

Having college/junior/minor league clubs - 20 years ago, the NL semi-pro/senior leagues collapsed and numbers trended down, they've been recovering as senior teams and leagues re-established themselves. Is there any similar correlation between growing college or junior teams and minor hockey programs?

During this time the province also lost its AHL and QMJHL teams, so I was thinking maybe this is similar to the growth experienced in US states without NHL clubs, or that lost them over the period.

 

[FootKnight]

I've been saying for some time that the NHL missed out on Oklahoma City, allowing the NBA to get there first, but that now Tulsa might be a good small city bet for the NHL.

The upside for the NBA going to Oklahoma is that it abandoned Seattle, so now when the circumstances are right let's hope that the NHL get to Seattle before the NBA returns. Not that Seattle couldn't support both, but it would be good to be the first to get established there again.

And as for Oregon, even though Oklahoma may somehow be ahead of Oregon, Oregon is still a prime location for the NHL.

I lived in OKC for 6 years (and, of course, was a USA Hockey registered player, but not youth as the article says) and I would probably agree about OKC, but I don't know about Tulsa. OKC was clammering for any major league team really and it seems to have worked out really well with the Thunder. It probably helps that they got a major, marketable player and became good really quickly, but I think they would have supported them anyway.

The Blazers of the CHL closed up shop (I'm guessing because the Barons were coming to town), but I went to a few games and there were some good crowds, especially for games against Tulsa, and they always drew well. Hockey isn't a big thing there by any means, Sooner football is everything really, but minor league teams do pretty well and I think grabbing the first major league franchise there was a big deal. I think it would have worked if the NHL had planted there first and the team got decent pretty quick at least. Ford Center can hold like 18K+ for hockey, I believe.

On a side note, does anyone know how the Barons are doing? I'm sure it's not that great yet, but it'll probably help when they establish an identity there, although the fact that the Thunder are now there is going to draw people away.

 

[eggy2486]

On a side note, does anyone know how the Barons are doing? I'm sure it's not that great yet, but it'll probably help when they establish an identity there, although the fact that the Thunder are now there is going to draw people away.

Not too bad, finished 5th in a tight division, lost to Hamilton first round of playoffs.

 

[one2gamble]

Here's another weird one:

State: Oklahoma
1990-91: 109
2009-10: 1,051
Growth: 864.2%

vs.

State: Oregon
1990-91: 738
2009-10: 804
Growth: 8.9%

Oklahoma has more hockey players than Oregon. And the two states are very similar in population, so that isn't a factor.

I thought the Pacific Northwest was a good place for hockey, and that Portland in particular was a strong hockey market.

Oklahoma had fairly popular chl teams in Tulsa and Oklahoma City. And now OKC has the Barons in the AHL. Ive been to a few games and they have a decent turn out. I guess they have spent some time with youth hockey as well. I dunno, it seemed like a place Hockey can succeed in when I was there, just needs some support.

 

[one2gamble]

On a side note, does anyone know how the Barons are doing? I'm sure it's not that great yet, but it'll probably help when they establish an identity there, although the fact that the Thunder are now there is going to draw people away.

The games I went to (my mom has season tickets) seemed to draw about the same as the Barons. Hell, its the same fan base. They probably would have done better if the Oilers would have left their team together, might have been able to make a decent playoff run.