Gripes about the Neuvirth trade

[haseoke39]

well we got a 1B goalie for 2014-2015 and maybe beyond, and absolutely we needed another goaltender to challenge Enroth. And yes Tim Murray wanted Neuvirth.

It's opportunity cost. I'd far rather have another Baptiste in the system than an extra backup for our tank years. I don't see why we need someone to challenge Enroth either, it's not like we're trying to win now. I don't think we should be doing anything in goal, FWIW, until the tank is over.

And he's only a "1B" because we don't have any kind of "1". I think you could count the team's he'd be able to start on with one hand, maybe less.

Joshjull EDIT: I brought this discussion here from the Isles 1st thread.

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[1972]

It's opportunity cost. I'd far rather have another Baptiste in the system than an extra backup for our tank years. I don't see why we need someone to challenge Enroth either, it's not like we're trying to win now. I don't think we should be doing anything in goal, FWIW, until the tank is over.

And he's only a "1B" because we don't have any kind of "1". I think you could count the team's he'd be able to start on with one hand, maybe less.

Sure I would rather have Baptiste, but a re-draft would have him going alot higher. It's far more likely that 3rd round pick is going to be nothing more then a minor league player.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Sure I would rather have Baptiste, but a re-draft would have him going alot higher. It's far more likely that 3rd round pick is going to be nothing more then a minor league player.

Our 3rd will likely be either pick #61 or #62 next year. You can definitely get a quality prospect there. The trade was just bad. Neuvirth will most likely bolt after this season so we moved a decent pick and a better goalie who could have returned a 2nd or 3rd+4th on his own for a worse goalie with just one year left before free agency and had to take a cap dump in return. Halaks rights alone returned a 4th. So he easily would have gotten a 3rd or most likely a 2nd at the deadline. It's pretty much 2nd+3rd for one full year of Neuvirth. Murray lost the trade. It isn't a major deal but it was poor asset management. I would have demanded a 2nd for Halak and just rolled with Enroth/Hackett until 15-16.

 

[5 Minute Major]

Neuvirth will most likely bolt after this season

What do you base this from? From the fact that someone traded for him and will be giving him a legitimate chance to be a #1 goalie?

You have nothing, at all, to back up such a statement.

 

[DazedandConfused]

Neuvirth will most likely bolt after this season so we moved a decent pick and a better goalie who could have returned a 2nd or 3rd+4th on his own for a worse goalie with just one year left before free agency and had to take a cap dump in return. Halaks rights alone returned a 4th. So he easily would have gotten a 3rd or most likely a 2nd at the deadline. It's pretty much 2nd+3rd for one full year of Neuvirth. Murray lost the trade. It isn't a major deal but it was poor asset management. I would have demanded a 2nd for Halak and just rolled with Enroth/Hackett until 15-16.

Where is he going to bolt to. He has an opportunity here that very few teams can offer.

How do you know who was interested in Halak. You can demand as long as you want, if there's only 1 team in on him then you take what you get because he obviously wasn't staying and Murray was obviously high on Neuvirth. It's one of the perks of having so many of these mid round picks, we can just package a couple up to attain players who've already shown to be able to play in the league that our management like.

Why do people get so obsessed with winning and losing trades, 1 for 1. Instead of being so pessimistic, root for Neuvirth to flourish and become a competent #1 to backstop our team when we're ready.

 

[haseoke39]

Why do people get so obsessed with winning and losing trades, 1 for 1. Instead of being so pessimistic, root for Neuvirth to flourish and become a competent #1 to backstop our team when we're ready.

I'm quite optimistic about the team, and I do hope Neuvirth succeeds, same as I hope Luke Adam succeeds. I just think you should be able to acknowledge when your GM makes a poor trade without half the board jumping down your throat. It's not like I'm saying he's a poor GM overall or saying we should have hired someone else.

I think a lot of people are acting very threatened by this notion that Murray lost a trade. It doesn't mean he's not going to build this team well overall, but you only get so many assets to build a cup winner with, so we should be watching that he spends them wisely.

 

[dotcommunism]

I'm quite optimistic about the team, and I do hope Neuvirth succeeds, same as I hope Luke Adam succeeds. I just think you should be able to acknowledge when your GM makes a poor trade without half the board jumping down your throat. It's not like I'm saying he's a poor GM overall or saying we should have hired someone else.

I think a lot of people are acting very threatened by this notion that Murray lost a trade. It doesn't mean he's not going to build this team well overall, but you only get so many assets to build a cup winner with, so we should be watching that he spends them wisely.

I think maybe you should consider that other people just disagree with your opinions rather than assuming everyone else is lying to themselves and must be psychoanalyzed. This is just so ridiculously insulting and patronizing. You aren't smarter than everyone else.

 

[haseoke39]

I think maybe you should consider that other people just disagree with your opinions rather than assuming everyone else is lying to themselves and must be psychoanalyzed. This is just so ridiculously insulting and patronizing. You aren't smarter than everyone else.

Sorry about that.

I just think it's not even close, and when I see people backing themselves up not with their own rationale for why Neuvirth is a good goaltender, but just saying "well, Murray likes him," it sounds like they're at a loss to really defend the trade but deeply want to trust Murray anyways.

 

[Beerz]

I think Murray lost the Halak trade ... but I also think he probably didnt have any better options and did what he could.

 

[DazedandConfused]

I forget what the actual trade was. Something like..

Neuvirth, Rusty

Halak 3rd 4th ??

I don't think Wash had any plans of resigning Halak, he was just there to finish the season with Holtby out. From my perspective it's just the 3rd and 4th for Neuvirth? I wouldn't say it's a losing trade, but it's too early to say if it's a win. Could be a homerun if he takes the job and runs with it for years.

I could be wrong on the exact details of the trade though.

 

[haseoke39]

I think Murray lost the Halak trade ... but I also think he probably didnt have any better options and did what he could.

I mean, I think just letting Halak walk would've been the better option.

 

[Beerz]

I mean, I think just letting Halak walk would've been the better option.

You're evil.

You wanted that to ensure Halak made it to FA because we wouldnt have traded his rights to the Isles.

 

[dotcommunism]

Sorry about that.

I just think it's not even close, and when I see people backing themselves up not with their own rationale for why Neuvirth is a good goaltender, but just saying "well, Murray likes him," it sounds like they're at a loss to really defend the trade but deeply want to trust Murray anyways.

Perhaps it's just an admission that most of us don't necessarily have the knowledge to accurately assess Neuvirth. Generally speaking I'm going to assume that the general manager, and his scouting staff, have a much better read on the players than I do. The fact that Murray brought in Neuvirth and says that he likes him suggests that he, or his staff, might see something there that I don't.

 

[Djp]

Our 3rd will likely be either pick #61 or #62 next year. You can definitely get a quality prospect there. The trade was just bad. Neuvirth will most likely bolt after this season so we moved a decent pick and a better goalie who could have returned a 2nd or 3rd+4th on his own for a worse goalie with just one year left before free agency and had to take a cap dump in return. Halaks rights alone returned a 4th. So he easily would have gotten a 3rd or most likely a 2nd at the deadline. It's pretty much 2nd+3rd for one full year of Neuvirth. Murray lost the trade. It isn't a major deal but it was poor asset management. I would have demanded a 2nd for Halak and just rolled with Enroth/Hackett until 15-16.

I'm quite optimistic about the team, and I do hope Neuvirth succeeds, same as I hope Luke Adam succeeds. I just think you should be able to acknowledge when your GM makes a poor trade without half the board jumping down your throat. It's not like I'm saying he's a poor GM overall or saying we should have hired someone else.

I think a lot of people are acting very threatened by this notion that Murray lost a trade. It doesn't mean he's not going to build this team well overall, but you only get so many assets to build a cup winner with, so we should be watching that he spends them wisely.

I mean, I think just letting Halak walk would've been the better option.

The deal was Halak + 2015 3rd for Klesla+ Neuvirth

I saw preliminary reports a 6th was to come to buffalo.

I look at this as Klesla or Halak...UFA for UFA. Buffalo needed a Dman to replace McNabb in Rochester. Neuvirth for the 2015 3rd which is about right for him. The traded salaries were close enough.

Murray could have been high on him for a while. He likes bigger goalies. Enroth doesn't fit his preference.

I don't know what can be done with this deal because Klesla refused to report. Do they change the pick compensation or get something from Washington

With the goalies I don't see much of a difference between them.

I don't see this as an oh my god what a bad trade.

Would you have reacted the same if they let Halak walk and acquire Nuevirth for a 3rd?

Another thing to remember...buffalo has oodles of draft picks. For 2015 it looks like they will have at least 5 in rounds 1&2...assume isles defer. They could acquire more in trades for Ehrhoff, Stewart, Stafford, and Enroth/Neuvirth.

3rd round picks don't amount to much in terms of NHL players. I think the odds of getting a career NHLer in the 3rd round ( who usually is not a top 6/top 4) is < 20%.

Getting a player like Henrique in the 3rd round <3%

Them trading a third round isn't that big of a deal.

 

[Djp]

Perhaps it's just an admission that most of us don't necessarily have the knowledge to accurately assess Neuvirth. Generally speaking I'm going to assume that the general manager, and his scouting staff, have a much better read on the players than I do. The fact that Murray brought in Neuvirth and says that he likes him suggests that he, or his staff, might see something there that I don't.

He probably liked him when he got drafted and because he had a yr left he said what the he!! And try him out for a year. He was a high 2nd round pick.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

The deal was Halak + 2015 3rd for Klesla+ Neuvirth

I liked Regier mostly, but he made a few bad trades and I never had a problem saying so.

This trade was a loser no matter how you look at it, but it's not worth pitching a fit over either. Halak had a bit better value than Neuvirth, and Murray lost a 3rd for a player that never showed up. I'm not losing sleep over it though.

 

[MagnumForce2]

The deal was Halak + 2015 3rd for Klesla+ Neuvirth

I saw preliminary reports a 6th was to come to buffalo.

I look at this as Klesla or Halak...UFA for UFA. Buffalo needed a Dman to replace McNabb in Rochester. Neuvirth for the 2015 3rd which is about right for him. The traded salaries were close enough.

Murray could have been high on him for a while. He likes bigger goalies. Enroth doesn't fit his preference.

I don't know what can be done with this deal because Klesla refused to report. Do they change the pick compensation or get something from Washington

With the goalies I don't see much of a difference between them.

I don't see this as an oh my god what a bad trade.

Would you have reacted the same if they let Halak walk and acquire Nuevirth for a 3rd?

Another thing to remember...buffalo has oodles of draft picks. For 2015 it looks like they will have at least 5 in rounds 1&2...assume isles defer. They could acquire more in trades for Ehrhoff, Stewart, Stafford, and Enroth/Neuvirth.

3rd round picks don't amount to much in terms of NHL players. I think the odds of getting a career NHLer in the 3rd round ( who usually is not a top 6/top 4) is < 20%.

Getting a player like Henrique in the 3rd round <3%

Them trading a third round isn't that big of a deal.

Our 3rd Round Pick should be close to a late 2nd round pick and could have been used like pocket change during to the draft to possibly trade a pick to a higher position to draft a better player. Just because you have a lot of draft picks, it doesn't mean you should be frivolous with them. My hope is that Murray views Neuvirth as a potential starter in the future and took a gamble on him.

 

[brian_griffin]

Our 3rd Round Pick should be close to a late 2nd round pick and could have been used like pocket change during to the draft to possibly trade a pick to a higher position to draft a better player. Just because you have a lot of draft picks, it doesn't mean you should be frivolous with them. My hope is that Murray views Neuvirth as a potential starter in the future and took a gamble on him.

I believe that's exactly what Murray feels.

 

[Chad Thundercock]

It's way too early to tell if this trade is a loser.

I think Neuvirth will be a decent starter next year.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

He's had a lot of ups and downs in his young career, but I'm willing to give him a shot. Halak for Klesla is a solid deal, but who would have predicted Klesla to not even show up?

 

[billsandsabres]

Murray stated early and often that nobody's job will be exempt from competition. Halak wasn't going to be re-signed and nobody in the goalie prospect pool was looking NHL ready for 14/15. Perhaps Murray wanted to ensure that the goalie position would be contended and not handed next season? A 3rd round pick is not a staggering price to accomplish that.

 

[Jacob582]

Best case is he turns things around, stays off IR, and either re-signs with the Sabres or gets traded at the deadline for something more than we gave up for him.

 

[mgeise]

There will be a ton of 1B types available on the free agent market this year that they could have gotten without giving up a decent asset like that 3rd rounder. I didn't like the trade when it was made because Halak could have returned something (at least that 4th rounder that the Isles traded for his rights) and Neuvirth is somewhat indistinguishable from other 1B goalies on the market from my perspective. We've just got to hope that Murray and the scouts see something great in Neuvirth. I hope it turns out sort of like the Conacher and Bishop trade worked out for the Lightning. Most people were saying that the Sens won that deal at the time, but Bishop turned into a great goalie when given the opportunity.

 

[ZZamboni]

I think Murray did alright with getting Neuvirth. Could he have POTENTIALLY acquired something more or better? Sure. But don't assume he was or wasn't offered more or better. Makes one look really stupid IMO. Between Neuvirth and Enroth, the Sabres should have pretty average to below average goaltending. Just the right mix for a top 5 pick next offseason.

 

[ZeroPT*]

I really don't think this merits a trade.

We traded a 3rd for god sakes who gives a flying ****