Greed vs. The Crosby Example

[hooverdam]

This thread should be about Malkin, not Crosby.

Malkin straight up said he left money on the table so the Penguins could pay Letang.

On his second contract, Shero was ready to pay him whatever he damn well pleased, and Malkin wrote Crosby's salary down on a piece of paper and handed it to him because he didn't think he should ever get paid more than Sid.

If McDavid or whoever wants to follow someone's example in terms of taking less than market value for the sake of the team, it should be Malkin's, because it's not possible to follow Crosby's example anymore.

 

[Trap Jesus]

It's simply about timing, and a contract like his is essentially Exhibit A of what the new CBA was out to get rid of. He did take a bit of a discount, but it was nothing crazy considering the timing and cap. He also makes $10.6 million on average from the start of his contract until 2021/22. Considering players can only get 8 years now, I think that's the best way to put into context that his contract would have looked far different if you shifted it to today.

 

[Stephen]

Crosby signed when the cap was much lower, but he still took up a large percentage of the Penguins cap.

 

[OilCanada92]

Crosbys 5 year contract from 09-13 was 17% of the cap when signed. Real team friendly.

No kidding. What a Saint.

Crosby second contract was 17.3% of the Penguins cap space. That's 12.975M of today's cap.

So apparently McDavid can sign for 13 million and be following Crosby's lead.

 

[King'sPawn]

No kidding. What a Saint.

Crosby second contract was 17.3% of the Penguins cap space. That's 12.975M of today's cap.

So apparently McDavid can sign for 13 million and be following Crosby's lead.

But, see, when McDavid does it, he's being selfish.

 

[OilCanada92]

But, see, when McDavid does it, he's being selfish.

If anything, McDavid would be less greedy. Crosby left 1.36M on the table. Mcdavid would be leaving 2.025M on the table.

 

[I am not exposed]

No kidding. What a Saint.

Crosby second contract was 17.3% of the Penguins cap space. That's 12.975M of today's cap.

So apparently McDavid can sign for 13 million and be following Crosby's lead.

Yep!

Wow, what a sacrifice Crosby made!

 

[Rick74*]

The reality is if McDavid asks for 14 they just cannot afford to build much of a team with any depth around him.

Does he deserve max? Absolutely. And it's his if he wants it.

But it comes at a cost as we live in a cap era. So take the max you can, but don't cry after the fact if you are perpetual 2nd round exits because your team lacks depth to go far in the playoffs.

The penguins can roll 4 lines. That won't be something Edmonton can say.

 

[sharkhawk]

Jonathan Toews, Patrick Kane, and Anze Kopitar will probably end up making $50 million or so extra in their NHL careers compared to Crosby,

I agree with much of what you said but this here is completely unaccurate

Toews contracts til 22-23 123.9
Kopitar til 23-24 130.6
Kane til 22-23. 126.7
Crosby til 24-25. 159

So unless Toews and Kane get 40 million plus contracts per year in 23-24 and 24-25 and kopitar get 70 there is no way they'll ,are 50 million more. In fact to catch up to saint Sid Kane will 16+ Toews 17+ and kopitar will need 28 +. And what are the odds Sid plays out the last three years at 3 million

 

[Sam Spade]

Crosby signed that deal because he is crazy superstitious. 8.7mil/yr for 12 years as his cap hit

This.

He signed a $104m contract. Take out those last 3 back diving years, and it's a $11.6m cap hit. He didn't take one for the team. His agent and the Penguins just took advantage of the rules as they were. Crosby is a saint though. Look what he sacrificed with that last contract.

And especially this.

 

[The Lucky Pucks]

Toews contracts til 22-23 123.9
Kopitar til 23-24 130.6
Kane til 22-23. 126.7
Crosby til 24-25. 159

So unless Toews and Kane get 40 million plus contracts per year in 23-24 and 24-25 and kopitar get 70 there is no way they'll ,are 50 million more. In fact to catch up to saint Sid Kane will 16+ Toews 17+ and kopitar will need 28 +. And what are the odds Sid plays out the last three years at 3 million

You do realize I was quoting what the OP wrote and stating he was wrong in that regard so why you're quoting me I do not know

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

No kidding. What a Saint.

Crosby second contract was 17.3% of the Penguins cap space. That's 12.975M of today's cap.

So apparently McDavid can sign for 13 million and be following Crosby's lead.

Mcdavid's contract would start next year, so it would be more around 12.5M. If he follows Crosby's path, he would take a 12.5 mill contract for 5 years, then follow it up with a long term contract at 12.5 mill again. I think that's what we'll see honestly and it's fair.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

He signed a $104m contract. Take out those last 3 back diving years, and it's a $11.6m cap hit. He didn't take one for the team. His agent and the Penguins just took advantage of the rules as they were. Crosby is a saint though. Look what he sacrificed with that last contract.

It's hard to compare to today's contracts, but Crosby honestly could've asked for whatever he wanted. If it was the current CBA, he would've found a way for the contract to be team friendly. So, he really did take one for the team.

From the day he signed:

"I think the balance here was to try to find a contract in his third contract that could pay Sidney Crosby accordingly, but as Sid always says to me and said again, 'OK that is fine, but how can I help the team?' " Shero said. "He came back after he talked to Pat and said this AAV is really what I want to help the team. He's never been reluctant to help the team and we certainly appreciate that. It says a lot about Crosby."

https://www.nhl.com/news/crosby-penguins-agree-on-12-year-extension/c-636359

 

[TOGuy14]

Sidney Crosby might be in the best spot in the NHL right now. Captain of his team, back-to-back Stanley Cup and Conn Smythe winner, now starting to be talked about as a potential Top 5 player of all time, and the Penguins have $20 million in cap space and are looking to get even better.

All this is possible because Crosby took the most team-friendly contract in the NHL. He's still making $9 million+ in salary for the next 5 seasons, but the extra 3 seasons at the end of his contract where he will make $3 million each year make all the difference. It allows his team to stay competitive.

Jonathan Toews, Patrick Kane, and Anze Kopitar will probably end up making $50 million or so extra in their NHL careers compared to Crosby, but their teams, especially the Blackhawks as we saw today, are struggling financially. From this day forward Crosby is going to be a lot more successful on the ice thanks to his relatively low salary and the extra money that his team has to spend.

The next superstar player who will get a giant contract is Connor McDavid. Will he go after the money like Toews, Kane, and Kopitar did... or will he follow the Crosby Example?

The contract is completely cap circumventing and not even legal anymore.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Why is undervaluing your labor considered noble?

 

[NewFang]

Players with higher cap hit than Crosby

Patrick Kane $10,500,000
Jonathan Toews $10,500,000
Anze Kopitar $10,000,000
Alex Ovechkin $9,538,462
Jamie Benn $9,500,000
Evgeni Malkin $9,500,000
P.K. Subban $9,000,000
Sidney Crosby $8,700,000


So to add to the list is McDavid at $14M

 

[Paxton Fettel]

Crosby's deal is not team friendly. At the time of the signing it was as bad as the Hawks deals. The only reason the Pens are winning is Crosby + Malkin, the BEST centers in the world since Lemieux, and they ended up on the same team. It's a miracle and you have to thank the lottery for it.

 

[meenamjah]

Sidney Crosby might be in the best spot in the NHL right now. Captain of his team, back-to-back Stanley Cup and Conn Smythe winner, now starting to be talked about as a potential Top 5 player of all time, and the Penguins have $20 million in cap space and are looking to get even better.

All this is possible because Crosby took the most team-friendly contract in the NHL. He's still making $9 million+ in salary for the next 5 seasons, but the extra 3 seasons at the end of his contract where he will make $3 million each year make all the difference. It allows his team to stay competitive.

Jonathan Toews, Patrick Kane, and Anze Kopitar will probably end up making $50 million or so extra in their NHL careers compared to Crosby, but their teams, especially the Blackhawks as we saw today, are struggling financially. From this day forward Crosby is going to be a lot more successful on the ice thanks to his relatively low salary and the extra money that his team has to spend.

The next superstar player who will get a giant contract is Connor McDavid. Will he go after the money like Toews, Kane, and Kopitar did... or will he follow the Crosby Example?

you're so wrong about toews and kane though. toews, kane and keith all took hometown discounts on their earlier contract, allowing chicago to make those cup runs. and they already won 3 cups, so it's less relevant. mcdavid is the one that can severely hamstring the franchise by taking the most money possible. and with that incompetent front office, it won't be pretty.

 

[meenamjah]

It's hard to compare to today's contracts, but Crosby honestly could've asked for whatever he wanted. If it was the current CBA, he would've found a way for the contract to be team friendly. So, he really did take one for the team.

From the day he signed:



https://www.nhl.com/news/crosby-penguins-agree-on-12-year-extension/c-636359

as a ufa and undisputed best player in the league, he could have demanded the maximum and nobody would have blamed pittsburgh for giving it to him. kudos for him in trying to win as much as possible by taking less.

 

[PAZ]

Crosby has earned $125 mil in salary and endorsement since he joined the NHL. Not only is it (almost) every player's goal to win the Stanley Cup, it also helps keep his name relevant as the best player in the world for endorsement deals. (http://heavy.com/sports/2016/06/sidney-crosby-net-worth-salary-contract-endorsements/)

McDavid would be smart to take a similar route and go for a ~12 mil contract. Winning the SC will only earn you more money in endorsements.

 

[KingsFan7824]

It's hard to compare to today's contracts, but Crosby honestly could've asked for whatever he wanted. If it was the current CBA, he would've found a way for the contract to be team friendly. So, he really did take one for the team.

How many guys have signed a contract for a total of $104m? Plus another $43m on the contract before that? Plus all the off ice money I'm sure he gets. Almost $150m after his ELC. Alright, he didn't take every single dime he could. Took all the quarters though.

From the day he signed:

"I think the balance here was to try to find a contract in his third contract that could pay Sidney Crosby accordingly, but as Sid always says to me and said again, 'OK that is fine, but how can I help the team?' " Shero said. "He came back after he talked to Pat and said this AAV is really what I want to help the team. He's never been reluctant to help the team and we certainly appreciate that. It says a lot about Crosby."

https://www.nhl.com/news/crosby-penguins-agree-on-12-year-extension/c-636359

Certainly quality PR. Crosby is a team first guy, but both sides played the financial game where you massage the numbers to make it look good. His agent and the team used the back diving contract to get to that special $8.7m cap hit. His salary has been, and still is more than that special number.

There's no reason to make Crosby into more than he is. He's as greedy as the rest of us. He's a human being, a hockey player, and has gotten almost $150m(plus endorsements) after his ELC, in a hard cap league, with the least amount of revenue between the 4 major sports in NA. That's not exactly sacrificing for the franchise. Nor should he be expected to do such a thing. You get that money if it's there.

 

[TaLoN]

It was a cap-circumvention contract... a contract that isn't legal under the current rules, but took advantage of loopholes in the old rules. This isn't Crosby being kind-hearted.

 

[Hobble]

Doesn't hurt that he's the only face the league advertises. Media money!!!

 

[Street Hawk]

I get the sense that Crosby doesn't really care about the money, or even personal awards. He really, really likes winning.

Given his issues with concussions at the time, taking the security of a long term deal was the right call. It will bite Sid if he doesn't pull a Hossa and actually plays out the low salary years.

No idea how Sid does in endorsements. I recall his deal with Reebok back in 2010 was $10 million over 7 years. Compare that to James Harden who got $200 million over 13 years with Adidas in 2015.

There's just a relative value of how much a hockey player brings to a brand. Sid does make good coin in endorsements for a hockey player, but relative to the top players of other sports, it's at the bottom.

So, if Reebok was his top endorsement in terms of annual value, doesn't really make Tim's, Gatorade, and others worth huge bucks. I see him around $5 million in endorsements annually. Don't think he'd match his cap hit in endorsement money.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Crosby's ELC was 17.3% of the cap, the salary in the first 8 years of his second deal would have accounted for 18% of the cap at the time of his signing. At most he took a 2-2.7% discount on his deal. He simply had the benefiting of being able to have his cake and eat it too (get paid like a generational star throughout his prime+have a manageable cap hit) because he signed under the previous CBA which allowed him to sign a 12 year contract taking him to almost 38 years old.