Greatest Montreal Canadiens Player Of All-Time? #5

[BenchBrawl]

Who is the next greatest Montreal Canadiens player of all-time?

#1: Maurice Richard (57.14%)
#2: Jean Béliveau (77.27%)
#3: Guy Lafleur (45.68%)
#4: Doug Harvey (55.93%)

Click to read more...

 

[BenchBrawl]

For me this is Howie Morenz.Jacque Plante is very close, but Morenz was the best player in the world for some time.Morenz is probably the 4th greatest center of all-time just behind Béliveau, Lemieux and Gretzky.And center is the position with the toughest competition.

Here is a nice thread to read about the Top Centers of all-time, which has a lot of Morenz comparisons with Béliveau, Mikita, Messier, Lemieux, Gretzky and so on: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1521459

 

[groovejuice]

For me this is Howie Morenz.Jacque Plante is very close, but Morenz was the best player in the world for some time.Morenz is probably the 4th greatest center of all-time just behind Béliveau, Lemieux and Gretzky.And center is the position with the toughest competition.

Here is a nice thread to read about the Top Centers of all-time, which has a lot of Morenz comparisons with Béliveau, Mikita, Messier, Lemieux, Gretzky and so on: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1521459

Nice image.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Nice image.

Yes, I picked the best colored one I could find and thought this one looked good.

The original Morenz picture:

 

[BenchBrawl]

I made a mistake in Jacques Plante's name, putting the ''s'' in Plante instead of Jacques.Sorry about that.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Position by position, I would rank them:

G
Plante
Roy
Dryden

RW
Geoffrion

D
Robinson

C
Morenz
Lalonde
H.Richard

More players will be added next round.

 

[bsl]

Position by position, I would rank them:

G
Plante
Roy
Dryden

RW
Geoffrion

D
Robinson

C
Morenz
Lalonde
H.Richard

More players will be added next round.

add cournoyer and savard for next round

 

[bsl]

Who is the next greatest Montreal Canadiens player of all-time?

#1: Maurice Richard (57.14%)
#2: Jean Béliveau (77.27%)
#3: Guy Lafleur (45.68%)
#4: Doug Harvey (work in progress)

I look at it more like who are the best 5 skaters and goalie you would go with to win one game. Each hab must play their position but rw lw interchangeable.

My order:
Richard
Harvey
Gros Bill (hm to Morenz)
Roy
Lafleur ( cournoyer damn close)
Savard.

Yes savard. Not Larry but close of course. Savard was phenomenal and then broke both his legs. He adjusted his game and I never saw him cough the puck up in his end. Like ever.

I think he could have approached Orr level without the injuries.

 

[MXD]

Morenz.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I'm going with Plante. Morenz is also a good choice.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I look at it more like who are the best 5 skaters and goalie you would go with to win one game. Each hab must play their position but rw lw interchangeable.

My order:
Richard
Harvey
Gros Bill (hm to Morenz)
Roy
Lafleur ( cournoyer damn close)
Savard.

Yes savard. Not Larry but close of course. Savard was phenomenal and then broke both his legs. He adjusted his game and I never saw him cough the puck up in his end. Like ever.

I think he could have approached Orr level without the injuries.

We can't evaluate Savard as if he hadn't broken his leg twice. Yes, he was super-solid, but Larry Robinson was a beast of a player for TWENTY seasons. For more than half of those seasons, he was the most physically dominant player in the league, with his skating, shooting, passing, defending, and even fighting. The guy had a +120 in 1976-77. During the four consecutive year dominance, Larry had 54 points in 58 playoff games!!

He was a star for Team Canada in 1976 as he began his prime, and also 1984 at age 33. In the Cup year of 1985-86, at age 34, Robinson scored 82 points, plus 13 more in the playoffs! The next year, at age 35, he picked up 20 points in 17 playoff games as Roy faltered and the Habs lost in the Cup semi-final.

One of the greatest players of all time, yet a strapping farm boy at heart, humble and accessible and a great human being.

 

[ProspectsFanatic]

Add Bouillon.

 

[peate]

I went with Plante, his numbers were spectacular in an era where goalie equipment was minimal, he was an innovator at playing the position, going behind the net to play the puck, making the mask an accepted part of a goalie's gear, won seven Vezina trophies and had two or three seasons with a GA average at or below 2.00.

I can see why Morenz will win this poll, he also had an amazing career, unfortunately cut short.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I went with Plante, his numbers were spectacular in an era where goalie equipment was minimal, he was an innovator at playing the position, going behind the net to play the puck, making the mask an accepted part of a goalie's gear, won seven Vezina trophies and had two or three seasons with a GA average at or below 2.00.

I can see why Morenz will win this poll, he also had an amazing career, unfortunately cut short.

Misplaced nostalgia. Morenz was really good but does not belong in these discussions about the top 10.

He had two superb seasons, and after age 29 did not have a single season where he hit 0.80 ppg.

On longevity and total dominance, not only Larry Robinson but also several others beat out Morenz. Sad how he died, but it does not turn him into a bigger star than he really was.

 

[BaseballCoach]

add cournoyer and savard for next round

Cournoyer, LOL. One-dimensional hockey player who took four years to get a regular spot in the lineup due to very poor defence.

All-Star, yes. In the mix for greatest of all time? Give me a break.

 

[MXD]

Misplaced nostalgia. Morenz was really good but does not belong in these discussions about the top 10.

He had two superb seasons, and after age 29 did not have a single season where he hit 0.80 ppg.

On longevity and total dominance, not only Larry Robinson but also several others beat out Morenz. Sad how he died, but it does not turn him into a bigger star than he really was.

..Eh... He did win 3 Hart Awards, which is more than any other Hab I can think of.
(And that's only the short reply)

 

[Seb]

Why is Saku Koivu not in this poll and not top 5?

 

[BenchBrawl]

We can't evaluate Savard as if he hadn't broken his leg twice. Yes, he was super-solid, but Larry Robinson was a beast of a player for TWENTY seasons. For more than half of those seasons, he was the most physically dominant player in the league, with his skating, shooting, passing, defending, and even fighting. The guy had a +120 in 1976-77. During the four consecutive year dominance, Larry had 54 points in 58 playoff games!!

He was a star for Team Canada in 1976 as he began his prime, and also 1984 at age 33. In the Cup year of 1985-86, at age 34, Robinson scored 82 points, plus 13 more in the playoffs! The next year, at age 35, he picked up 20 points in 17 playoff games as Roy faltered and the Habs lost in the Cup semi-final.

One of the greatest players of all time, yet a strapping farm boy at heart, humble and accessible and a great human being.

I agree that ranking Savard ahead of Robinson for their overall career in Montreal is hard to defend.Robinson is clearly the 2nd greatest defenseman in MTL Canadiens history after Harvey amd the best member of the Big Three.

I even argue that Lapointe was better than Savard.Lapointe was called the best non-Orr defenseman of the early-70s by Ken Dryden in his book The Game.It's probably Brad Park, but that is tough competition anyway.

Too bad Savard about the leg though, and Savard brought leadership and has a Conn Smythe which is quite the feat for his kind of player (defensive defenseman).

 

[MXD]

Why is Saku Koivu not in this poll and not top 5?

Because we're currently voting for 5th, not 25th.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Because we're currently voting for 5th, not 25th.

I don't even think Koivu makes the Top 30, but that's just on top of my head.

Let's try (not ordered)

m.richard
beliveau
lafleur
harvey
morenz
plante
roy
robinson
lalonde
h.richard
dryden
vézina
lapointe
savard
moore
lach
joliat
blake
JC tremblay
tom johnson
laperriere
butch bouchard
lemaire
cournoyer
gainey
sylvio mantha
reardon
carbonneau
markov*
naslund**

ralph backstrom(?)
lepine(?)
rousseau(?)
olmstead(?)
recchi (?)
subban (?)
chelios (?)
cleghorn (?)
malone (?)
kovalev (?)

On second thoughts, your intuition is good, Koivu is probably in the 25-30 range.

* Edit: Added Markov, he somehow slipped my mind.Markov had a better career in Montreal than Koivu, right?

** Forgot Naslund too, probably forgot others.

 

[MXD]

I don't even think Koivu makes the Top 30, but that's just on top of my head.

Let's try (not ordered)

m.richard
beliveau
lafleur
harvey
morenz
plante
roy
robinson
lalonde
h.richard
dryden
vézina
lapointe
savard
moore
lach
joliat
blake
JC tremblay
tom johnson
laperriere
butch bouchard
lemaire
cournoyer
gainey
sylvio mantha
reardon
carbonneau
markov*

ralph backstrom(?)
lepine(?)
rousseau(?)
olmstead(?)
recchi (?)
subban (?)
chelios (?)
cleghorn (?)
malone (?)
kovalev (?)

On second thoughts, your intuition is good, Koivu is probably in the 25-30 range.

* Edit: Added Markov, he somehow slipped my mind.Markov had a better career in Montreal than Koivu, right?

Mosdell, Durnan, Naslund, Provost, P. Mahovlich all have a case, too.
Hell, if you don't mind short stints, F. Mahovlich has a good case as well.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Mosdell, Durnan, Naslund, Provost, P. Mahovlich all have a case, too.
Hell, if you don't mind short stints, F. Mahovlich has a good case as well.

Yeah.I tried to avoid short stints but regardless, Koivu's career was overglorified because he was the single bright spot on an abysmal team for so long and because he was captain and he survived cancer, which are all great things, but it doesn't make him close to being one of the all-time great MTL Canadiens.

Hell, even Carey Price has a case against Koivu already.

 

[Bieber fever]

Morenz or PK

 

[the]

Yeah.I tried to avoid short stints but regardless, Koivu's career was overglorified because he was the single bright spot on an abysmal team for so long and because he was captain and he survived cancer, which are all great things, but it doesn't make him close to being one of the all-time great MTL Canadiens.

Hell, even Carey Price has a case against Koivu already.

Overglorified? You forgot the most important one, he's rank #10 all time scorer in Habs history.

That's some elite players right there...

All that while playing with crap players, surgery on his left knee being diagnosed with cancer and a detached retina on his left eye.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Overglorified? You forgot the most important one, he's rank #10 all time scorer in Habs history.

That's some elite players right there...

All that while playing with crap players, surgery on his left knee being diagnosed with cancer and a detached retina on his left eye.

The bolded is irrelevent when evaluating him because scoring point totals vary between different eras.The same is true for games played during any given season.

Not once did Saku Koivu finish Top 10 in scoring.Not a single season of his long career.Even Kovalev achieved that in his short stint here in 2007-2008.