Great Article by Kevin Paul Dupont

[misterjaggers]

He says it's time for the NHLPA to compromise on the salary cap in exchange for concessions like guaranteed salaries, earlier free agency and the preservation of all existing contracts:
"What's done is done, boys. Time to get on with it. For those who'll say you lost, keep a pocket full of pictures at the ready to show 'em some snaps of your various retirement homes and docked yachts. The true loss would be to stay the course, lose this season and next, and ultimately get the owners' work conditions, and vastly reduced salaries, shoved right down your throats. No chance your voice will be heard then."
http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/articles/2004/12/15/cold_hard_facts_to_face?pg=full

Click to read more...

 

[YellHockey*]

Where's the great article?

It's just a rehash of the same old tired garbage that every other hack sports writer is writing across North America.

 

[FLYLine27*]

He says it's time for the NHLPA to compromise on the salary cap in exchange for concessions like guaranteed salaries, earlier free agency and the preservation of all existing contracts:
"What's done is done, boys. Time to get on with it. For those who'll say you lost, keep a pocket full of pictures at the ready to show 'em some snaps of your various retirement homes and docked yachts. The true loss would be to stay the course, lose this season and next, and ultimately get the owners' work conditions, and vastly reduced salaries, shoved right down your throats. No chance your voice will be heard then."
http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/articles/2004/12/15/cold_hard_facts_to_face?pg=full

Gary just said YESTERDAY that they arent getting rid of Guaranteed Salaries....some GREAT article.

 

[Seachd]

Gary just said YESTERDAY that they arent getting rid of Guaranteed Salaries....some GREAT article.

?? The article didn't say the NHL planned to get rid of guaranteed contracts.

 

[FLYLine27*]

?? The article didn't say the NHL planned to get rid of guaranteed contracts.

Guess I should have read it instead of believing the topic starter who said:
"He says it's time for the NHLPA to compromise on the salary cap in exchange for concessions like guaranteed salaries, earlier free agency and the preservation of all existing contracts:"

 

[Egil]

I don't actually think the owners have ever even had taking away guaranteed contracts on the table. That seems to be a NHLPA fear tactic (that Glen Healy was STILL trumpeting AFTER the Bettman press conference).

 

[SENSible1*]

Anyone who watched Off the Record yesterday realizes that this article is bang on.

3 former players ALL agreed that the PA will eventually cave and have a salary cap forced upon them.

Goodenow's job is to get his player's the best deal possible. In this case, that means he should be telling them to forgoe their instincts and give up the fight. If he leads them into the loss of the season he is guilty of gross misconduct.

 

[Buffaloed]

Gary just said YESTERDAY that they arent getting rid of Guaranteed Salaries....some GREAT article.

No, he said the NHL has not proposed it. That in no way means it's not an issue that won't be negotiated. The NHL also hasn't made a proposal regarding buyouts. Suppose they want to reduce the rate to 15-30%. That would effectively remove the guarantee from guaranteed contracts. The NHL could also propose imposing limits on the amount and term that may be guaranteed. They might insist that only the first 2 years of a contract can be guaranteed and/or only half the base salary can be guaranteed. That doesn't eliminate guaranteed contracts, but it sure changes their impact.

http://nhlcbanews.com/news/nhlresponse121404.html

12. Miscellaneous Other Issues, Including Guaranteed Contracts. As you previously have expressed to us, and as we had agreed, we believe it makes sense to defer addressing the myriad of "other issues" that will need to be negotiated until we have an understanding on what the new overall economic system will look like. Thus, this response and counterproposal defers consideration of many other issues, including many referred to summarily in both our July 23, 2004 letter and in Tab 10 of your proposal. However, we want to ensure that there is no misunderstanding with regard to guaranteed contracts; the NHL has not proposed an elimination of guaranteed contracts.

 

[misterjaggers]

Guess I should have read it instead of believing the topic starter who said:
"He says it's time for the NHLPA to compromise on the salary cap in exchange for concessions like guaranteed salaries, earlier free agency and the preservation of all existing contracts:"

KPD said in the article that contracts should be guaranteed 100% -this would require a concession by the league because under the old CBA, teams could buy out a contract for 2/3rds of its value.

My topic sentence is consistent with the article. What are you complaining about?

 

[Epsilon]

What the NHLPA should look to do is to get a cap system that is the most disfavorable as possible to the GMs: total free agency at the end of every contract, fully guaranteed contracts, etc. Also have all players refuse to ever defer any money or restructure their contracts to be more favorable to the team. None of this whining we get in the NFL about how Peyton Manning should renegociate his deal to help his GM. Make the bed the NHL wants, and then force them to sleep in it no matter how many cockroaches they find under the covers. And then when the CBA expires they can decide if they like having to operate under those conditions.

 

[Cawz]

KPD said in the article that contracts should be guaranteed 100% -this would require a concession by the league because under the old CBA, teams could buy out a contract for 2/3rds of its value.

My topic sentence is consistent with the article. What are you complaining about?

Well I just finished watching an interview with Chris Pronger and he was asked why the players dont just concede a salary cap. He said he didnt think that the contracts would stay guaranteed. He said that there are buy-outs, injury insurance, 2-way contracts and other ways to get out of contracts, and if you sign a 3 year contract, you usually end up only get paid for 1 year.

I was suprised to hear him say this, nothing about the cap, nothing about free open market, all about guaranteed contracts.

So there is something to this article.

 

[misterjaggers]

Well I just finished watching an interview with Chris Pronger and he was asked why the players dont just concede a salary cap. He said he didnt think that the contracts would stay guaranteed. He said that there are buy-outs, injury insurance, 2-way contracts and other ways to get out of contracts, and if you sign a 3 year contract, you usually end up only get paid for 1 year.

I was suprised to hear him say this, nothing about the cap, nothing about free open market, all about guaranteed contracts.

So there is something to this article.

It must be the spectre of the NFL. They've got the hard cap and (correct me if I'm wrong), but they don't guarantee contracts, right?

 

[Go Flames Go*]

^^Yup just like the way it should be, a restrictive salary range, and not gaurnteed.

I cannot go on strike tommorow and say I want a market place system but gaurnteed job, and inflationary salary so when someone else I know gets a $.50 raise I want one also. My boss would kick me in the ass and tell me to **** off, and hire someone for $5.95 an hour, who cannot negotiate his salary you get what the owner tells you. If you do that in the NHL they player will ask to be traded or the offer was a insult to me, or just sit out.

 

[struckmatch]

The players have already lost this war. They will be the ones losing the paycheques in this, not the owners, most of whom are saving, or making money by not playing. I've said this all along, the players need to realize when they have been defeated, and that time is now. They can't win, and they won't win this, this guy, and every other person with this opinion is dead on.

Its this simple, the players can negotiate a salary cap, and get a better deal than the NFLPA, or they can have a cap shoved down their throats after they threw away 2 years of income. Which will it be?

 

[Go Flames Go*]

^^ Beautiful post one of the best of the year 2004. The players are done finished, its up to them Bettman has a choke hold on them right now, they can let him squeeze until Goodenow goes blue, or they can let him slowly release it with the cap. They should be in serious negotiations for a 1.5% increase in DHR for them players.

However long it takes, thats how long it takes folks. I could give a **** about the players, all I care is if the Flames are alive and well, and we can continue to kick Edmontons ass 6 times a year, I want some of our current players also, but if it means loosing them after we develop them into stars then no thanks. The cap is coming wether the NHLPA likes it or not, Goodenow will loose his job once the players run out of money, and there only option is burger king or working for me, they will jump at a cap of $4.55 Million a team which will be equall to a CFL cap.

 

[CarlRacki]

No, he said the NHL has not proposed it. That in no way means it's not an issue that won't be negotiated. The NHL also hasn't made a proposal regarding buyouts. Suppose they want to reduce the rate to 15-30%. That would effectively remove the guarantee from guaranteed contracts. The NHL could also propose imposing limits on the amount and term that may be guaranteed. They might insist that only the first 2 years of a contract can be guaranteed and/or only half the base salary can be guaranteed. That doesn't eliminate guaranteed contracts, but it sure changes their impact.

http://nhlcbanews.com/news/nhlresponse121404.html

From Bettman's press conference Tuesday:

I will confirm something very important that we repeated to the union: We have not sought - and are not seeking now - the elimination of guaranteed contracts. That is a bogus issue...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=108101

 

[Digger12]

From Bettman's press conference Tuesday:

I will confirm something very important that we repeated to the union: We have not sought - and are not seeking now - the elimination of guaranteed contracts. That is a bogus issue...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=108101

Perhaps I'm reading too much, but his words seem very carefully chosen.

He's covered the past and present...but what about future talks? He hasn't said that they'll NEVER seek it.

 

[Epsilon]

Perhaps I'm reading too much, but his words seem very carefully chosen.

He's covered the past and present...but what about future talks? He hasn't said that they'll NEVER seek it.

The problem with that is that if the NHLPA agrees to some sort of salary cap and then Bettman starts going "OK now we want this, this, and this" I think public opinion would turn totally against him.

 

[Digger12]

The problem with that is that if the NHLPA agrees to some sort of salary cap and then Bettman starts going "OK now we want this, this, and this" I think public opinion would turn totally against him.

And how would that be different from any other day? :lol

The players want to brush his teeth with a Louisville slugger, the great majority of the media based in the large markets think he's a resourceful idiot...if the fans turn on him, that's just another log on the fire.

What matters to him is what the owners think. And at least so far, they seem to believe in the message he's portraying.

I think even Bettman realizes that making the players come back crawling is the inappropriate thing to do, and he'd prefer to avoid it if at all possible.

 

[misterjaggers]

And how would that be different from any other day? :lol

The players want to brush his teeth with a Louisville slugger, the great majority of the media based in the large markets think he's a resourceful idiot...if the fans turn on him, that's just another log on the fire.

What matters to him is what the owners think. And at least so far, they seem to believe in the message he's portraying.

I think even Bettman realizes that making the players come back crawling is the inappropriate thing to do, and he'd prefer to avoid it if at all possible.

If the NHLPA was smart they'd present a counter-proposal now accepting the concept of a salary cap, but demanding a series of concessions. That would instantly throw the league back on its heels and be a serious P.R. win for the NHLPA. Then the fans and the media would side with the players and the union could use this momentum to get some genuinely valuable concessions. And, the big, lucrative game could resume etc., instead of blowing it up into smithereens!

 

[SENSible1*]

If the NHLPA was smart they'd present a counter-proposal now accepting the concept of a salary cap, but demanding a series of concessions. That would instantly throw the league back on its heels and be a serious P.R. win for the NHLPA. Then the fans and the media would side with the players and the union could use this momentum to get some genuinely valuable concessions. And, the big, lucrative game could resume etc., instead of blowing it up into smithereens!

The problem with your premise--"If the NHLPA was smart"

The way they have handled this situation so far has proven them to be incompetent.

 

[me2]

What the NHLPA should look to do is to get a cap system that is the most disfavorable as possible to the GMs: total free agency at the end of every contract, fully guaranteed contracts, etc. Also have all players refuse to ever defer any money or restructure their contracts to be more favorable to the team. None of this whining we get in the NFL about how Peyton Manning should renegociate his deal to help his GM. Make the bed the NHL wants, and then force them to sleep in it no matter how many cockroaches they find under the covers. And then when the CBA expires they can decide if they like having to operate under those conditions.

The NHL would take that. The ultimate losers are players who have to suffer because teams can't dump players. ie Pronger becomes a UFA, Toronto wants to buy out Domi and Belak and pay him $6m. No one else has $6m in cap space and aren't allowed to free it up. Prongers gets offered $3m/y for two years or he gets to sit out a year.

Works for me.