Prospect Info: Great a drafting but are we good enough at developing talent?

[Jetsetter]

I’m typically a positive poster. I’ve been to the past two Young Stars events in Penticton, have season tickets and watch 96% of all Jet games. I continue to wait patiently to see these prospects rise to the next level.

I see other teams prospects out hustle, out hit, out work our prospects consistently. They seem to operate with at a higher energy level. Not sure of the reasons. Yes there are exceptions to my statement but on a general basis I believe it seems to be true.

If the pundits say we have one of the best prospect pools in the NHL why are we not seeing this translating on the ice when we see ours compete against theirs?

Maybe we are great drafters but not a good enough developers of talent? I can think of all kinds of excises but what am I missing?

Click to read more...

 

[Halloween Jack]

I’m typically a positive poster. I’ve been to the past two Young Stars events in Penticton, have season tickets and watch 96% of all Jet games. I continue to wait patiently to see these prospects rise to the next level.

I see other teams prospects out hustle, out hit, out work our prospects consistently. They seem to operate with at a higher energy level. Not sure of the reasons. Yes there are exceptions to my statement but on a general basis I believe it seems to be true.

If the pundits say we have one of the best prospect pools in the NHL why are we not seeing this translating on the ice when we see ours compete against theirs?

Maybe we are great drafters but not a good enough developers of talent? I can think of all kinds of excises but what am I missing?

I think you're missing the fact that Scheifele, (Trouba), Ehlers, Hellebuyck, are budding stars. If they stop trending upward, and if Connor and Laine are busts, then you have cause for concern.

 

[sully1410]

I think it's a valid question, as was said before a lot of our picks are now in the NHL, and we will be adding a few more this year. We have had pretty limited success outside of the first round though. I'd like to see that change.

 

[johna2626]

One of the issues is that our best prospect is too good for these prospect games...
Laine was not there like Pulju, or Tkachuk.
There is also a lack of defense in the system. And when Logan Stanley is what the organization wants, it's going to be even worse on defense. I'm sure they will address the need in the upcoming drafts. Let's just home they can get the correct defenders in the system.

 

[sully1410]

One of the issues is that our best prospect is too good for these prospect games...
Laine was not there like Pulju, or Tkachuk.
There is also a lack of defense in the system. And when Logan Stanley is what the organization wants, it's going to be even worse on defense. I'm sure they will address the need in the upcoming drafts. Let's just home they can get the correct defenders in the system.

From what I've heard, Stanley has looked really good so far.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

From what I've heard, Stanley has looked really good so far.

I don't know where you heard that? Dude isn't good.

 

[AWSAA]

Definitely a fair question. The only top/middle 6 forwards & full-time D they've "developed" so far were lottery picks (or talents - Connor).

Look around the league and you will see more than half of the league has produced quality players in 2nd round or later since the 2011 draft. Some of those teams have struck 2-3x.

 

[garret9]

From what I've heard, Stanley has looked really good so far.

 

[garret9]

I've shown before that the Jets are good at drafting, but they are also very much human and still falling for many of the same market deficiencies many teams are, especially outside of the first round (where your draft position matters less and drafting talent matters more).

I mean, a very simple blind stats model may outperform the Jets.

The model loses Lowry, Copp, and Poolman but gains Shore, McCabe, Gostisbehere, and Bjorkstrand...

That's a trade I'd make. And not so blind, like knowing Lowry had mono in his draft year or using Copps numbers after he moved from the fourth line in Michigan, wouldn't even miss those guys.

 

[JetsFan815]

Great a drafting but are we good enough at developing talent?

This is questionable under the leadership of Hiller after the latest draft and what he seems to value

 

[nobody important]

I think Sully was referring to his hair. It is... mahvelous.

 

[DeepFrickinValue]

development side is somethink I know little about. any know how this works? I am sure mentoring and education are key components but there must be other aspects.

within the Logan Stanley discussion, development was brought up and what actually goes into development. anyone with insight please share....

 

[Jetsetter]

From what I've heard, Stanley has looked really good so far.

I think many are too negative on a 18 yr old 6' 7" kid. Defense is difficult to learn. Stanley requires patients. He is a defensive and tough style defensive LHD. Time will tell.

 

[surixon]

Too soon to really say:

We have seen guys like Scheifele and Trouba developed into top line/top pair quality players. Both of which probably exceed their draft position.

This year we have Helle, Petan and Morrissey knocking at the door so it's not inconceivable that going into this year we will have the following on the roster.

2011 draft class

Scheifele - First line centre
Lowry - 4th line/depth pieces

2012:
Helle - Starting goalie
*Trouba or replacement if Chevy gets his price* first pairing defenseman

2013:
Petan - top 9 forward if he makes it
Morrissey- top 6 or 4 defenseman
Copp- 4th line forward/depth defenseman

2014:

Ehlers top 6 forward

2015:

Connor top 9 forward

2016:

Laine - top 6 forward

That looks pretty good to me. 2 players from 2011 and 2012 and possibly 3 from 2013.

 

[KingBogo]

Too soon to really say:

We have seen guys like Scheifele and Trouba developed into top line/top pair quality players. Both of which probably exceed their draft position.

This year we have Helle, Petan and Morrissey knocking at the door so it's not inconceivable that going into this year we will have the following on the roster.

2011 draft class

Scheifele - First line centre
Lowry - 4th line/depth pieces

2012:
Helle - Starting goalie
*Trouba or replacement if Chevy gets his price* first pairing defenseman

2013:
Petan - top 9 forward if he makes it
Morrissey- top 6 or 4 defenseman
Copp- 4th line forward/depth defenseman

2014:

Ehlers top 6 forward

2015:

Connor top 9 forward

2016:

Laine - top 6 forward

That looks pretty good to me. 2 players from 2011 and 2012 and possibly 3 from 2013.

I think at this time it also looks like Roslovic will be a NHL player at some point. And since this thread asks more about development than drafting shouldn't we also throw in the asset acquisitions from these draft classes? That list would now include Armia from 2011 and Lemieux and Dano from 2013.

But for me what shed a light on player development was how well all the prospects on the Moose performed when called up late last season. For the most part Maurice was able to slip them into the line up have them perform well. IMO the strategy of having the Moose as primarily a prospect development team is maximizing young player development by forcing them into key roles and big minutes under pressure.

 

[surixon]

I think at this time it also looks like Roslovic will be a NHL player at some point. And since this thread asks more about development than drafting shouldn't we also throw in the asset acquisitions from these draft classes? That list would now include Armia from 2011 and Lemieux and Dano from 2013.

But for me what shed a light on player development was how well all the prospects on the Moose performed when called up late last season. For the most part Maurice was able to slip them into the line up have them perform well. IMO the strategy of having the Moose as primarily a prospect development team is maximizing young player development by forcing them into key roles and big minutes under pressure.

Yeah I was just putting down who I thought had a very realistic shot at making the roster and what their role would be this year. There are others who could make it in the future as well.

 

[ffh]

This is questionable under the leadership of Hiller after the latest draft and what he seems to value

they drafted a kid in the first round who was slated to go in the first round. I question your questioning of their pick.

 

[Duke749]

This is questionable under the leadership of Hiller after the latest draft and what he seems to value

There is no way in the universe you can come to the conclusion that our most recent draft, which is only a couple months old, is good or bad either way. So saying it's questionable at this point in time is ironically, very questionable itself. How about wait until we see what these guys show over the next year or two before coming to any conclusions? That's probably asking a lot though.

 

[KingBogo]

Yeah I was just putting down who I thought had a very realistic shot at making the roster and what their role would be this year. There are others who could make it in the future as well.

Yeah I appreciate you were being conservative. But I don't get the Jets aren't good enough at developing as they probably put more resources into it then anyone. How many organizations run their farm team from the same city with a purely developmental focus?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

This is questionable under the leadership of Hiller after the latest draft and what he seems to value

It was questionable before. We've done well with the easy ones. After that, not so much. There are still quite a few prospects on the cusp. If a few of those start to come through we are doing well. If they crash and burn (Lowry?) then we are not doing well at all.

 

[sully1410]

I couldn't even tell you where I heard it or read it or whatever. I might have even made it up.

I honestly don't know anymore

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think many are too negative on a 18 yr old 6' 7" kid. Defense is difficult to learn. Stanley requires patients. He is a defensive and tough style defensive LHD. Time will tell.

I think many are too negative positive on a 18 yr old 6' 7" kid who has shown little aptitude for hockey. Defense is difficult to learn. Stanley requires patients. He is a defensive and tough style defensive LHD. Time will tell. Yes, time will tell.

In the meantime there was no reason to draft him except his exceptional size which is no indication AT ALL that he will ever turn into a pro hockey player. He should have been taken in the 4th or 5th round, if at all. Someone else would have taken him earlier? Good! Let some other team draft badly. Axel Blomqvist has shown more promise. He went undrafted. How high might he have gone if he had played D instead of LW? 1st rd? 2nd?

 

[Halloween Jack]

I think many are too negative positive on a 18 yr old 6' 7" kid who has shown little aptitude for hockey. Defense is difficult to learn. Stanley requires patients. He is a defensive and tough style defensive LHD. Time will tell. Yes, time will tell.

In the meantime there was no reason to draft him except his exceptional size which is no indication AT ALL that he will ever turn into a pro hockey player. He should have been taken in the 4th or 5th round if at all. ,Someone else would have taken him earlier? Good! Let some other team draft badly. Axel Blomqvist has shown more promise. He went undrafted. How high might he have gone if he had played D instead of LW? 1st rd? 2nd?

I disagree with that statement.

Don't get me wrong; I don't like the pick either, but the guy isn't trash.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

You can only help with development so much

It is also on the players themselves

 

[garret9]

I disagree with that statement.

Don't get me wrong; I don't like the pick either, but the guy isn't trash.

I know legitimate NHL scouts who had him outside the top 3 rounds.

Not saying they are right, but I think it's something to keep in mind on:
1) this specific circumstance in at least being somewhat reasonable opinion within the realm of opinions
2) the wide variety of different opinions scouts can have on players