Confirmed with Link: Granlund (MIN) for Fiala(NSH)
- Thread starter tomgilbertfan
- Start date
- Status
fentonsbrainchild
Registered User
- Jul 29, 2019
- 1,037
- 548
I’m disturbed that people are still upset we got bad value at the time of the trade.
The add on at best would probably have been a 2nd round pick. Do you know who the predators picked in the second round? Egor Afanasyev. If that is what bothers you I can’t help you.
Be happy we fleeced a division rival in a trade.
The add on at best would probably have been a 2nd round pick. Do you know who the predators picked in the second round? Egor Afanasyev. If that is what bothers you I can’t help you.
Be happy we fleeced a division rival in a trade.
Because it was? Fiala had one solid season, but never broke 50 points. He flashed skills, but Nashville had a lot of concerns that was all it was. A flash in the pan. There were also some rumors Fiala had attitude problems. Would we be saying this if he was on pace for 39 points? It was a risky move.
It might have been Dillion Hamaliuk...but I have to say...So? We would have probably picked Hunter Jones with the pick and instead of trading a 3rd and a 4th round pick, we would have had Kevin Fiala, Hunter Jones, Patrik Puistola and Cade Webber. I mean we can play this game all day long.
We didn't fleece them. It was a solid deal at the time for two teams going in two different directions. Granlund is starting to pick up pace. Since hiring Hynes, Granlund has had 10 goals and 5 assists for 15 points in 25 games. Good for around 48 points, but at a 32 goal pace.
16thOverallSaveUs
Danila Yurov Fan Club Executive Assistant
- May 2, 2018
- 18,793
- 11,752
The problem with saying “we should’ve gotten this add because player x had never had y points” is that, just like with everything else, numbers don’t tell the whole story. Yeah Fiala was playing like an Idiot, and that’s how we acquired him. Coming into last year, everyone thought Fiala was going to be a ppg player in the league at some point, his tough year set his value back, and was ultimately allowed us to grab him. No shot Nashville even thinks about Granlund for Fiala a few months prior. Anyone who watched Fiala knew he had tons of skill and just needed to do some maturing in the ice. The gamble wasn’t on our end, it was completely on Nashville’s end the whole time. Fiala was always going to be a 60 point player in this league just based on his skill, the question always was if he could hash out the deficiencies in his game and push to be an elite forward. Nashville gambled that it wouldn’t happen in a win now move for the “current better player”. At the time it wasn’t a fleecing, but Fiala’s incredible play coupled with Granlund’s poor play has sure turned it into one. If Granlund walks after this year, it gets even worse for Nashville. Like what FBC said, why can’t we just be happy that Nashville, a team that has never drafted and developed an elite forward, may have delivered us their only shot at one on a silver platter.
You're trading a 60+ point player for a 40+ point player at that point. You're taking a bigger risk, because there is a good chance (and like you said numbers don't tell the whole story) they won't reach it because of a lot of reasons. The thing is Minnesota is taking more of a risk and should have been compensated for that.
Huh? No one thought Fiala was going to be a PPG. They thought he was going to be a good to elite winger, but no one thought that he was going to be a 80+ point winger.
That isn't true; the gamble was on our end. Fiala wasn't always going to be a 60 point player in this league based off his skills alone. I mean Galchenyuk has deficiencies in his game, but still managed to put up 30 goals in a season.
What about Viktor Arvidsson? He has scored 117 goals in 334 games.
And because it's revisionist history. Just because Fiala is on a good tear right now, doesn't mean he can't top out at around 30-35 goals.
16thOverallSaveUs
Danila Yurov Fan Club Executive Assistant
- May 2, 2018
- 18,793
- 11,752
Why don’t you take a gander to all the threads that were made a year or two back for the Fiala hype. Fiala was always going to be a 60 point player. He was too skilled. Why don’t you assemble me a list of players who get 48 points as a 21yo and then don’t break 60 points in their career.
You mean before his leg injury? Why didn't trade Coyle straight up for Donato? You're still risking potential vs realism. Prospects vs players are very much like stocks in real life. You can have a 'guarantee' that just fails for no reason. Hell, look at Yakupov. Fail for Nail? He shouldn't have failed either, but he did.
At the time of the trade virtually everyone agreed that Minnesota was exposing itself to too much risk to not get a pick/prospect back. Fenton apparently thought the bigger risk was passing on the opportunity to add Fiala. It'd be easier to fault him if it wasn't a player he was so familiar with, but as it stands I can't hold the "missing pick" against him.
It was also that he didn't shop Granlund to drive up his value, that he got locked into one certain player and his other trades were thuds and duds. Adding all of that up, it looked like a terrible trade.
Locking onto Fiala looks like the best idea in the world right now.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Fiala and Donato had nowhere near the same amount of NHL equity at the time of the trades.
Fiala wasn't a prospect.
Separate situation with different motivations, and I don't think many have argued that that trade was all that smart.
16thOverallSaveUs
Danila Yurov Fan Club Executive Assistant
- May 2, 2018
- 18,793
- 11,752
Fiala’s 48 point season was after his leg injury. Donato, Who was a minor-leaguer at the time of the trade, is completely different than Fiala who was in his 2nd season of being a top 6 forward. The fact of the matter is that 9/10 times we tend to over-value our own players. I promise if Fiala got moved today we’d be rattled at the return. Granlund, who had been averaging .33ppg for the better part of two months, with a year and a half to UFA, didn’t carry nearly the value many of us thought he did. Even if Fiala hadn’t turned into the player he is today, it’s hard to argue that a 22yo top 6 forward with a 20 goal, almost 50 point season under his belt isn’t worth a year and a half of Granlund. Just because you felt that we should’ve gotten more doesn’t mean it was realistic. Poile knew he was taking on risk. Russo reported on one of his podcasts that Polie almost had Fenton adding to Granlund.
Nino Noderreiter
Registered User
- Dec 10, 2012
- 39,646
- 18,063
16thOverallSaveUs
Danila Yurov Fan Club Executive Assistant
- May 2, 2018
- 18,793
- 11,752
Actually he was 23. Coyle and Nino both had near 60 points as 23yos. 23 is prime for a lot of players; it’s not unusual to see career years at 23. Fiala was 21.
9/10 times we tend to overvalue our young players and our prospects than established NHL players.
Yes, only because he's had one - maybe two solid seasons and he has potential. But he is at his highest right now. Will he eclipse it? Who knows? I mean - look at Dumba. If we moved him last year when his value was the highest, would we be complaining now? You're looking at TODAY. It's easy to look back and go, yep! that was such a smart trade - when Fiala was on pace for less than 20 goals last season.
Actually, he probably did and does. He had two 60 point seasons and is a good defensive player along with being a good offensive wing.
Depends; what would Granlund take to sign back? And it would create a log-jam of 20 goal scoring, 50 point wingers.
Most analysts and fans thought that the Wild should have gotten more. Poile wanted more, because he knew Fenton wanted Fiala regardless of the cost. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.
You are looking at the trade in hindsight and forcing the narrative. It's great the Fiala is doing well, and there was a good chance he would break out - but equally a good chance that he'd been a 20 goal scoring winger as well.
16thOverallSaveUs
Danila Yurov Fan Club Executive Assistant
- May 2, 2018
- 18,793
- 11,752
I’m not forcing any narrative. Even if Granlund was playing like the 60 point player he was for us this season and Fiala was playing like just a “20 goal winger” 5+ years of asset protection of the 20 goal winger is worth a ton. If Granlund had 3+ years of term left, you need an add. It was a trade of “a better track record” for “only a 20 goal winger with team control for years to come”. It was a fair trade at the time based on track-record. A year and a half (garunteed) of a 60 point player for 5+ years of a 20 goals, 50 points. My disdain at the time was because I get granlund hadn’t reached his full potential yet. It turns out, he had, and Fiala hadn’t reached his (surprise suprise).
If these trends continue, it will be safe to say the Wild bought low on Fiala.
We also may have enjoyed peak Granlund as well.
We also may have enjoyed peak Granlund as well.
Nino Noderreiter
Registered User
I did not say that. The previous poster essentially asked about young players who have initial success and then do not repeat that success. I think it's important to ground ourselves while also understanding Fiala's amazing run. I just provided an example of a young player who found a lot of initial success, but ultimately was not able to continue to repeat that same success. I did not say it was a 1:1 comparision.
Another example that may be more similar in terms of playstyle to Fiala is Alexandre Daigle. Daigle scored 51 points as an 18 year old and 51 points at 21 years old. He then was not able to sustain that level of production let alone improve on that production.
Phrasing Fiala's growth as a sure thing is dangerous is the point, despite the very real cause for optimism.
What? He was 22, you can check his hockey reference page. Victor Rask Stats | Hockey-Reference.com He did have another successful year at 23 as well.
Regardless, you're missing the forest for the trees. The point is that young players can have success early in their careers that is not sustained let alone additional tiers reached. There's no point in trying to suggest otherwise.
- Status
