returnofthemack29
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- Feb 20, 2015
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Post-Game Talk: Grade the Avs Draft
- Thread starter returnofthemack29
- Start date
Solid B+ from me.
Didn't absolutely love it, but thought it was still very strong with a lot of good picks, and two solid trades. Especially the Grubauer one which I thought was excellent, and if we can turn Orpik into something like a 2019 5th or 6th as well that's icing on the cake.
In terms of each individual picks...
Martin Kaut - B+, good player with solid upside. Personally wish we had gone with a slightly more "swing for the fences" type of pick here but Kaut fits our needs and future lineup very well. Cant complain at all with this one.
Juustua Annunen - B-, glad to see us identify goaltending as such a need and make a push to improve it. I'm just not convinced Annunen was the BPA available among Goalies. Think Skarek or Dostal would have been better picks but that's ok.
Sampo Ranta - B, not a tonne to say here. A high upside pick which is great, we'll see if he puts it all together or not, I give the lower ranking mostly because I dont know if he reaches that upside.
Tyler Weiss - B+, another great swing for the fences pick. I really think he has a chance to turn into something though. Especially if he can bulk up a bit in the next couple of years.
Brandon Saigeon - C, dont see much upside out of this pick. We'll see I guess and if he turns into a scoring AHLer then its probably not bad value for a 5th round pick but year... Not my favorite.
Danil Zhuravlyov - A+, my favorite pick of the draft for the Avs. Seems like the folks on these boards that watched a lot of him play are extremely high on this kid. Has crazy good upside and if he can work on getting a little stronger with and without the puck he could be a real steal of a pick down the road. Loving that the Avs are targeting the under-scouted Russian leagues as an area to perhaps find some hidden gems. Started with Mironov and Shvy and continued this year with our last 3 rounds.
Nikolai Kovalenko - A+, See the Zhuravlyov comments. Love the swing for the fences approach that they've taken with this pick as well. Again there's a number of people that see a tonne of upside in Kovalenko and his game. Getting him to North America doesn't seem like it would be a challenge at all with him either given that he was actually at the draft and all that. Seems he was excited to be taken and wants to be an NHL player.
Shamil Shamkov - B, not as high on this pick as the other two Russians. This is taking swing for the fences to an entirely new level haha. Think this guy probably would have went undrafted and we could have just signed him afterwards without much issue. Big goalie so I guess we'll see if he can turn into our own Rinne or not.
Overall its definitely a solid B. Really only one pick I didn't like and a couple others that were "meh" to me. If we can get a Top 6 forward out of Kaut and hit on one more of the middle round guys then this would be a solid draft no doubt.
Didn't absolutely love it, but thought it was still very strong with a lot of good picks, and two solid trades. Especially the Grubauer one which I thought was excellent, and if we can turn Orpik into something like a 2019 5th or 6th as well that's icing on the cake.
In terms of each individual picks...
Martin Kaut - B+, good player with solid upside. Personally wish we had gone with a slightly more "swing for the fences" type of pick here but Kaut fits our needs and future lineup very well. Cant complain at all with this one.
Juustua Annunen - B-, glad to see us identify goaltending as such a need and make a push to improve it. I'm just not convinced Annunen was the BPA available among Goalies. Think Skarek or Dostal would have been better picks but that's ok.
Sampo Ranta - B, not a tonne to say here. A high upside pick which is great, we'll see if he puts it all together or not, I give the lower ranking mostly because I dont know if he reaches that upside.
Tyler Weiss - B+, another great swing for the fences pick. I really think he has a chance to turn into something though. Especially if he can bulk up a bit in the next couple of years.
Brandon Saigeon - C, dont see much upside out of this pick. We'll see I guess and if he turns into a scoring AHLer then its probably not bad value for a 5th round pick but year... Not my favorite.
Danil Zhuravlyov - A+, my favorite pick of the draft for the Avs. Seems like the folks on these boards that watched a lot of him play are extremely high on this kid. Has crazy good upside and if he can work on getting a little stronger with and without the puck he could be a real steal of a pick down the road. Loving that the Avs are targeting the under-scouted Russian leagues as an area to perhaps find some hidden gems. Started with Mironov and Shvy and continued this year with our last 3 rounds.
Nikolai Kovalenko - A+, See the Zhuravlyov comments. Love the swing for the fences approach that they've taken with this pick as well. Again there's a number of people that see a tonne of upside in Kovalenko and his game. Getting him to North America doesn't seem like it would be a challenge at all with him either given that he was actually at the draft and all that. Seems he was excited to be taken and wants to be an NHL player.
Shamil Shamkov - B, not as high on this pick as the other two Russians. This is taking swing for the fences to an entirely new level haha. Think this guy probably would have went undrafted and we could have just signed him afterwards without much issue. Big goalie so I guess we'll see if he can turn into our own Rinne or not.
Overall its definitely a solid B. Really only one pick I didn't like and a couple others that were "meh" to me. If we can get a Top 6 forward out of Kaut and hit on one more of the middle round guys then this would be a solid draft no doubt.
Smells like a solid "B" draft on the backs of Kaut & Grubauer. There's a lot of upside in the likes of Annunen, Ranta, Weiss, Zhura & Kovalenko but also no guarantees.
Congo Jack
is a big fat mess.
I'll echo what everyone else has said and rate this draft a B+, as I like the players we picked, but there were others I liked even more. I like Annunen, but I prefer Skarek/Dostal, I like Ranta but I prefer McLaughlin, Shamkov sounds interesting, but I prefer Miftakhov. The only pick I'm not too thrilled about is Saigeon, who sounds like a Pracey pick.
CalderKing21
Darth Calder
McMetal
Writer of Wrongs
- Sep 29, 2015
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Martin Kaut - A- : I wanted a more dynamic scorer with the first rounder, but he does fill a need and I liked him before the pick.
Justus Annunen - A- : They got their highly rated goalie, and he has legit NHL size and temperament, so hopefully this lottery ticket pays out for once.
Sampo Ranta - C : Physical tools but no toolbox, we'll see what happened but I never really liked what he brought.
Tyler Wiess - A : I love taking chances on this type of player, plus how can you not root for him with his backstory? Skill for days and if he fills out in college this could be a steal.
Brandon Saigeon - D+ : I see nothing but a grinder at the pro level, swing and almost certainly miss by the CHL scouts.
Danila Zhuravlyov - B : I like the bet on talent, but his lack of physical play won't fly on small ice and unless he changes his whole attitude this pick will come to nothing.
Nikolai Kovalenko - A : Another bet on talent, and I think a wise one. His dad played in the NHL so it's an easy road to convince him to come over when he's ready.
Shamil Shmakov - D- : I mean, it's only a 7th, but on an unranked Russian? I feel like we could have done better with a few ranked guys still on the board. Especially since they had time for Kotkov with the announcement that he was a dev camp invite. No idea what they were thinking.
Overall, B+. I don't like some picks but they got good value out of the first and made some smart bets in rounds 4-7. You can't ask for much more than that.
Justus Annunen - A- : They got their highly rated goalie, and he has legit NHL size and temperament, so hopefully this lottery ticket pays out for once.
Sampo Ranta - C : Physical tools but no toolbox, we'll see what happened but I never really liked what he brought.
Tyler Wiess - A : I love taking chances on this type of player, plus how can you not root for him with his backstory? Skill for days and if he fills out in college this could be a steal.
Brandon Saigeon - D+ : I see nothing but a grinder at the pro level, swing and almost certainly miss by the CHL scouts.
Danila Zhuravlyov - B : I like the bet on talent, but his lack of physical play won't fly on small ice and unless he changes his whole attitude this pick will come to nothing.
Nikolai Kovalenko - A : Another bet on talent, and I think a wise one. His dad played in the NHL so it's an easy road to convince him to come over when he's ready.
Shamil Shmakov - D- : I mean, it's only a 7th, but on an unranked Russian? I feel like we could have done better with a few ranked guys still on the board. Especially since they had time for Kotkov with the announcement that he was a dev camp invite. No idea what they were thinking.
Overall, B+. I don't like some picks but they got good value out of the first and made some smart bets in rounds 4-7. You can't ask for much more than that.
shadow1
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2008
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I have mixed feelings, but I gave it a B. I like the value of the Grubauer trade, but that left Colorado with only one selection in the top 60 of what is considered a fairly deep draft (yes, I realize they traded down).
I like the Kaut pick, but a guy like Akil Thomas would have been very nice as #47, considering how thin the Avs prospect pool is at forward. Just have to hope a guy like Ranta or Weiss pan out.
I like the Kaut pick, but a guy like Akil Thomas would have been very nice as #47, considering how thin the Avs prospect pool is at forward. Just have to hope a guy like Ranta or Weiss pan out.
McMetal
Writer of Wrongs
- Sep 29, 2015
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Yeah, I knew somebody I liked would slip to 47. That stings a bit, I really like him.
McMetal
Writer of Wrongs
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Why would he? That management group is entirely gone, and the guy he played with who has a reputation for class and respect is now in charge. Besides, it was more than 20 years ago, I would think that wouldn't matter.
The biggest hurdle with Russians is just getting them over, and like I said, there's a family history of being willing to do that. Unless his dad just generally had an awful time over here I wouldn't think that would be an obstacle.
I think this year is very hard to rank because majority of the players we drafted have the skill, but are under develop physically. Not only that, but half of the players are ones we haven't even watched or viewed like Shamakov and Kovalenko. Hell, even the Avs are banking Kaut off a half-of-a-season of good production.
Because of that, I would have to rank this draft a "C" that has the potential to turn into an "A". I know that might be a very "Maple Leaf's fan or optimistic" type of answer, but I do have faith that a lot of these players are very talented and have other problems in their games.
@Pierce Hawthorne: Dostal and Skarek have more potential, but Annunen is safer to become an NHL goaler.
Because of that, I would have to rank this draft a "C" that has the potential to turn into an "A". I know that might be a very "Maple Leaf's fan or optimistic" type of answer, but I do have faith that a lot of these players are very talented and have other problems in their games.
@Pierce Hawthorne: Dostal and Skarek have more potential, but Annunen is safer to become an NHL goaler.
Patagonia
Keep Whining
- Jan 6, 2017
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Decent draft saved by the Grub trade, but was somewhat disappointed overall when better players were available.
1: Martin Kaut (RW) A-: Veleno or Smith would have been good possibilities, but actually really like this choice. A very safe pick and drafted approx. at the projected ranking.
2: Philipp Grubauer (G) (Trade) A+: This was a home run trade. Would have liked to have used the lower 2nd round pick, but this solidies the Goalie issue at a reasonable rate for the next few years.
3A: Justus Annunen (G) C-: Surprised on not choosing Skarek. He was the much better Goalie and had decent size. Dostal would have been an option as well. Missed opportunity.
3B: Sampo Ranta (LW) B-: Not a bad choice, they could have grabbed the Goalies to add more depth. Not too exciting and ranking about the same as the pick. A safe selection.
4: Tyler Weiss (LW) B: I like this high risk and high reward pick, small player and needs to get bigger if he goes higher than the AHL. Pick afterwards Bernard would have been better. Mixed feelings, but like the choice. Missed opportunity.
5A: Brandon Saigeon (C) D-: Terrible choice. Goalies Mandolese and Gravel were available and wasted their chance on an overage player that only played well in his 3rd draft season. Poor choice.
5B: Danila Zhuravlyov (LD) B: Scout seem to love his game. Skinny and needs a few years to develop his game. Good choice and worth the risk.
6: Nikolai Kovalenko (LW) C: A little bit of a rich, expected to be drafted in the 7th round. This is likely due to getting to come over, but like the pick and would have ranked higher, but don't expect him anytime soon in North America. Worth the risk.
7: Shamil Shmakov (G) D-: Why draft another Goalie when much better options were available and they were missed? This is a low pick anyways, but terrible waste of a selection. Terrible choice.
Overall Draft Grade C. Disappointed with so many missed opportunities. Better players, especially Goalies were missed. Some of the later choices could have been available with lower picks. This was a safe draft and will be surprised anyone beyond Kauts/Grub ever reaches the NHL.
1: Martin Kaut (RW) A-: Veleno or Smith would have been good possibilities, but actually really like this choice. A very safe pick and drafted approx. at the projected ranking.
2: Philipp Grubauer (G) (Trade) A+: This was a home run trade. Would have liked to have used the lower 2nd round pick, but this solidies the Goalie issue at a reasonable rate for the next few years.
3A: Justus Annunen (G) C-: Surprised on not choosing Skarek. He was the much better Goalie and had decent size. Dostal would have been an option as well. Missed opportunity.
3B: Sampo Ranta (LW) B-: Not a bad choice, they could have grabbed the Goalies to add more depth. Not too exciting and ranking about the same as the pick. A safe selection.
4: Tyler Weiss (LW) B: I like this high risk and high reward pick, small player and needs to get bigger if he goes higher than the AHL. Pick afterwards Bernard would have been better. Mixed feelings, but like the choice. Missed opportunity.
5A: Brandon Saigeon (C) D-: Terrible choice. Goalies Mandolese and Gravel were available and wasted their chance on an overage player that only played well in his 3rd draft season. Poor choice.
5B: Danila Zhuravlyov (LD) B: Scout seem to love his game. Skinny and needs a few years to develop his game. Good choice and worth the risk.
6: Nikolai Kovalenko (LW) C: A little bit of a rich, expected to be drafted in the 7th round. This is likely due to getting to come over, but like the pick and would have ranked higher, but don't expect him anytime soon in North America. Worth the risk.
7: Shamil Shmakov (G) D-: Why draft another Goalie when much better options were available and they were missed? This is a low pick anyways, but terrible waste of a selection. Terrible choice.
Overall Draft Grade C. Disappointed with so many missed opportunities. Better players, especially Goalies were missed. Some of the later choices could have been available with lower picks. This was a safe draft and will be surprised anyone beyond Kauts/Grub ever reaches the NHL.
cgf
FireBednarsSuccessor
I woulda given it an A if Denisenko had fallen to us. I like Kaut, I like the trade & going with a goalie in the 2nd, and I like the later gambles...but I'm not in love with this draft like I would've been if we had gotten someone who really had the potential to be special with our 1st, and I'd have prefered one of the czechs goalies, but still another draft I'm happy with and that's building my confidence in Hepple & his team.
Freaky Styley
Registered User
But would you trade Akil Thomas for Grubauer? I would 100% of the time, especially given our goaltending situation. If he turns out to be a starter going forward for ~5 years, that's much more valuable than a winger who likely maxes out as a 2nd line player. That's what cap space and free agency is for
- Aug 25, 2006
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I will give them a strong B+ and that is mainly due to the strategy they use on draft day. I really like most of the guys they pick especially Kaut, Kovalenko, and Annunen. Contrary to most people here I also like the Saigeon pick. You need guys like these to win a cup. They did a fantastic job in using the 47th pick plus cap space to get Grubauer which is much needed in the organization, and they traded back the 58th to get another goalie they wanted plus another pick. I also liked their strategy to pick a few "swing for the fences" type players. They won't all pan out obviously but overall it was a smart draft.
I was being facetious.
However, I’m sure Chuck Arnason was so vindictive he saw to it the grudge carried over a generation.
Sea Eagles
Registered User
- Feb 7, 2012
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AAA+
Teams going from strength to strength
Teams going from strength to strength
The Kingslayer
Registered User
McMetal
Writer of Wrongs
- Sep 29, 2015
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We didn't just pass the class, we kicked the teacher out and taught it ourselves!
cgf
FireBednarsSuccessor
We didn't just pass the class, we kicked the teacher out and taught it ourselves!
Exactly like when I convinced my highschool to let my take AP german 5 as a freshman
FWIW, they didn't wanna let me take AP Calculus BC as a sophomore, so I did not feel bad about it at all
Tommy Shelby
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2012
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The good:
Kaut - I love 2-way players the most and he has all the tools necessary to be a solid NHLer for years. When a prospect's only real weakness is needing to bulk up a bit you know you've done well.
Kovalenko - I think the only reason this kid dropped so far was because of the Russian factor. He has the pedigree and tools to make the NHL, if he wants. Has to work on getting stronger and his play without the puck can be improved but otherwise this is a very good pick and will probably be seen as a steal in 3-4 years.
Weiss - Another kid that fell for one reason or another (size and how poorly utilized he was last year) but another potential steal. He's going to college where he'll have plenty of extra time to pump iron and get some meat on his frame while also having the chance to work on his play without the puck. Speed and skill in spades and he's got loads of heart and character too.
The meh:
Zhuravlyov - had no idea who he was so I can't make an accurate analysis. He seems to have a small fanatic following but you never know with that. Will need to spend more time watching him.
Annunen - I'm not great at goaltending analysis so he lands here as well. I think he's probably the most technically based goalie in the draft and he needs to work on his athleticism and speed but usually for goalies it's the other way around so it'll be interesting to see how he ends up. Goalies we draft are always dice rolls anyway.
Ranta - a very anti-Hepple pick, here's a poor man's Yakupov type player where he's all tools and no toolbox. Seems like none of his coaches can decide what type of player they want him to be. Hopefully the college route will bless him with a coaching staff that helps him excel and we'll get a useful NHLer out of him. Could go either way but I'm skeptical.
Shmakov: again a goalie and one I'd never heard of so here he ranks. Seems to have put up good numbers though.
The bad:
Saigeon - Probably could have just signed him to an AHL contract, joins fellow overagers Heard and Henley as underwhelming "who cares" bottom-6 AHLers. Will probably end up in the ECHL at some point this year if he goes straight to the AHL.
Kaut - I love 2-way players the most and he has all the tools necessary to be a solid NHLer for years. When a prospect's only real weakness is needing to bulk up a bit you know you've done well.
Kovalenko - I think the only reason this kid dropped so far was because of the Russian factor. He has the pedigree and tools to make the NHL, if he wants. Has to work on getting stronger and his play without the puck can be improved but otherwise this is a very good pick and will probably be seen as a steal in 3-4 years.
Weiss - Another kid that fell for one reason or another (size and how poorly utilized he was last year) but another potential steal. He's going to college where he'll have plenty of extra time to pump iron and get some meat on his frame while also having the chance to work on his play without the puck. Speed and skill in spades and he's got loads of heart and character too.
The meh:
Zhuravlyov - had no idea who he was so I can't make an accurate analysis. He seems to have a small fanatic following but you never know with that. Will need to spend more time watching him.
Annunen - I'm not great at goaltending analysis so he lands here as well. I think he's probably the most technically based goalie in the draft and he needs to work on his athleticism and speed but usually for goalies it's the other way around so it'll be interesting to see how he ends up. Goalies we draft are always dice rolls anyway.
Ranta - a very anti-Hepple pick, here's a poor man's Yakupov type player where he's all tools and no toolbox. Seems like none of his coaches can decide what type of player they want him to be. Hopefully the college route will bless him with a coaching staff that helps him excel and we'll get a useful NHLer out of him. Could go either way but I'm skeptical.
Shmakov: again a goalie and one I'd never heard of so here he ranks. Seems to have put up good numbers though.
The bad:
Saigeon - Probably could have just signed him to an AHL contract, joins fellow overagers Heard and Henley as underwhelming "who cares" bottom-6 AHLers. Will probably end up in the ECHL at some point this year if he goes straight to the AHL.
